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Re: [new_distillers] weird happenings with mash

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  • jmsmckenna@aol.com
    i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre batches,they were made using exactly the same usin same yeast,after slightly more than two weeks one of them
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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      i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre batches,they were made
      using exactly the same usin same yeast,after slightly more than two weeks one of
      them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the other one is still bubblin away
      merrily after another week an looks like it could be another week,wots
      happenin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Harry
      ... made ... two weeks one of ... bubblin away ... week,wots ... More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the other. Common problem with
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, jmsmckenna@a... wrote:
        > i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre batches,they were
        made
        > using exactly the same usin same yeast,after slightly more than
        two weeks one of
        > them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the other one is still
        bubblin away
        > merrily after another week an looks like it could be another
        week,wots
        > happenin



        More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the other.
        Common problem with pre-packaged turbos. Another cause is people
        who 'split' a pack of pre-pack yeast and pitch two fermenters. It's
        almost impossible to get equal amounts of yeast spores and nutrient
        into both.

        There's also a possibility of a secondary fermentation through
        bacterial activity in one fermenter but not the other, IOW
        contamination.


        Slainte!
        regards Harry
      • Robert Thomas
        Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2 fermenters? Currently I guess. How about mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that between them?
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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          Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
          fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
          mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
          between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
          kill/stun the yeast?
          Rob.

          --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com,
          > jmsmckenna@a... wrote:
          > > i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre
          > batches,they were
          > made
          > > using exactly the same usin same yeast,after
          > slightly more than
          > two weeks one of
          > > them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the
          > other one is still
          > bubblin away
          > > merrily after another week an looks like it could
          > be another
          > week,wots
          > > happenin
          >
          >
          >
          > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one
          > than in the other.
          > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos. Another
          > cause is people
          > who 'split' a pack of pre-pack yeast and pitch two
          > fermenters. It's
          > almost impossible to get equal amounts of yeast
          > spores and nutrient
          > into both.
          >
          > There's also a possibility of a secondary
          > fermentation through
          > bacterial activity in one fermenter but not the
          > other, IOW
          > contamination.
          >
          >
          > Slainte!
          > regards Harry
          >
          >
          >




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        • Harry
          ... If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched 50/50 immediately, it would be far better than trying to get it right as a dry ingredient. However,
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
            <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
            > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
            > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
            > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
            > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
            > kill/stun the yeast?
            > Rob.



            If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched 50/50
            immediately, it would be far better than trying to get it right as a
            dry ingredient. However, you've still got the problem of the
            fermenters possibly running out of nutrients before the ferment is
            done. You could of course add extra nutrients, but then you defeat
            the purpose of the split, which is trying to save a few dollars on
            yeast. Too much trouble, and not worth the agro in my book.

            While you're thinking about it, have an Italian coffee on me...
            http://www.cartoline.it/pics/_zoom_flash.htm?
            immagine=scherzi_150404_01


            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • Robert Thomas
            So you are drinking Irish coffee? Or no coffee in the mix at all? This link works: http://tinyurl.com/3qd8o Cheers Rob. p.s. it was funny though. ...
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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              So you are drinking Irish coffee? Or no coffee in the
              mix at all? This link works:
              http://tinyurl.com/3qd8o
              Cheers
              Rob.
              p.s. it was funny though.


              --- Harry <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
              >
              > <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
              > > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
              > > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
              > > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding
              > that
              > > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
              > > kill/stun the yeast?
              > > Rob.
              >
              >
              >
              > If it were dissolved in a volume of wort and pitched
              > 50/50
              > immediately, it would be far better than trying to
              > get it right as a
              > dry ingredient. However, you've still got the
              > problem of the
              > fermenters possibly running out of nutrients before
              > the ferment is
              > done. You could of course add extra nutrients, but
              > then you defeat
              > the purpose of the split, which is trying to save a
              > few dollars on
              > yeast. Too much trouble, and not worth the agro in
              > my book.
              >
              > While you're thinking about it, have an Italian
              > coffee on me...
              > http://www.cartoline.it/pics/_zoom_flash.htm?
              > immagine=scherzi_150404_01
              >
              >
              > Slainte!
              > regards Harry
              >
              >
              >




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            • Roderick Holmes
              I have the same thing happen some times. Few things could affect this: -The temperature of the sugar solution when you pitched the yeast. If you pitch it when
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                I have the same thing happen some times. Few things could affect this:

                -The temperature of the sugar solution when you pitched the yeast. If you pitch it when the wash is still warm, it seems to take off much faster and ferment quicker vs. if you pitch into a cold wash. I found this out because one batch I aerated overnight, the other I pitched warm right away without aeration. The initial colony gets a big boost if pitched into a warm wash.

                -The ambient termperature of where you have the fermentation vats. Are they in the same room together?

                -Sugar concentration. Did you take a specific gravity reading of both washes to confirm the sugar level is the same. The one with more sugar will take more time. Can't tell you how many times I lost count of how many scoops of sugar I put in and guessed.

                -yeast: did you dissolve the yeast in water first or pitch it dry? If you dissolved the yeast in too warm water, in one batch, it could have cut the viable yeast down in one batch.

                This is all I can think of off the top of my head.

                Warm regards on ice,
                Roderick

                jmsmckenna@... wrote:
                i made two sugar mashes on the same day,25 litre batches,they were made
                using exactly the same usin same yeast,after slightly more than two weeks one of
                them was ready an had stopped bubblin but the other one is still bubblin away
                merrily after another week an looks like it could be another week,wots
                happenin


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jmsmckenna@aol.com
                both washes were made at same time using 8 one kilo bags of sugar then left overnite to cool downthey were then topped up with water to the requires level just
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                  both washes were made at same time using 8 one kilo bags of sugar then left
                  overnite to cool downthey were then topped up with water to the requires level
                  just to aid the cooling process coz we are havin a sorta heatwave at minthen
                  there was one packet of yeast added to each,dry an aerated ,thats all i
                  know,when the last one was distilled i got 5 1/2 litres of 93% an it was damned
                  good stuff,i know this one will be ok when its done but i was just wonderin
                  bout the time discrepancy


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • pguy40
                  ... Harry, I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched yeast this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of activity. My
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                    > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the other.
                    > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.

                    Harry,

                    I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched yeast
                    this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                    activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can barely
                    detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting because
                    about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room smells
                    like I'm baking bread.

                    Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet? Maybe
                    this minimal activity is normal?

                    TIA
                    Peter
                  • go_stiller
                    Hi Rob The best way I found was to add 16 kg sugar to large container and top to 50-litre mark with hot water and mix well. When cool separate 25 litres to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                      Hi Rob
                      The best way I found was to add 16 kg sugar to large container and top
                      to 50-litre mark with hot water and mix well. When cool separate 25
                      litres to second container and test SG should be 1.130. In original
                      stir very well to aerate and add 48 turbo pack, after 2 days when
                      bubbling well, do next part. In other 25 litres add 1 desert spoon
                      vegemite & 1 cup molasses mixing very well. I add this through the day
                      about 2 litres at a time back to first container, takes about 16 days
                      at 22C degrees and the end SG is 990.


                      JW




                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
                      <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
                      > Is there a best way of pitching turbo mix into 2
                      > fermenters? Currently I guess. How about
                      > mixing/disolving in a volume of water and adding that
                      > between them? Or would thew high nutrient conc.
                      > kill/stun the yeast?
                      > Rob.
                    • Harry
                      ... other. ... yeast ... because ... smells ... Maybe ... Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley? Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...> wrote:
                        > > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the
                        other.
                        > > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.
                        >
                        > Harry,
                        >
                        > I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched
                        yeast
                        > this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                        > activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can barely
                        > detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting
                        because
                        > about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room
                        smells
                        > like I'm baking bread.
                        >
                        > Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet?
                        Maybe
                        > this minimal activity is normal?
                        >
                        > TIA
                        > Peter


                        Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley?
                        Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                        I assume you had everything else right such as...
                        Iodine test for conversion.
                        OSG recorded.
                        pH between 4 and 5.
                        Pitching temp ~25°C.

                        If all that was right, then give it up to 24hrs. If the activity
                        doesn't improve, repitch with fresh yeast. That's about all I can
                        offer. Sven is the man to talk to on all-grain mashes. He may know
                        some other angles.


                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry
                      • Mark
                        ... barely ... know ... I ve had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate from standard beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to use at
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 1, 2005
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                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > > > More viable yeast cells per litre of mash in one than in the
                          > other.
                          > > > Common problem with pre-packaged turbos.
                          > >
                          > > Harry,
                          > >
                          > > I just made an all grain wheat mash (mashed last night pitched
                          > yeast
                          > > this AM) and upon adding yeast was disappointed in the lack of
                          > > activity. My sugar washes always bubbled vigorously, I can
                          barely
                          > > detect any bubbling at all in this. I do think it's fermenting
                          > because
                          > > about half the grain has now risen to the surface and the room
                          > smells
                          > > like I'm baking bread.
                          > >
                          > > Could my packet of turbo be bad? Should I add another packet?
                          > Maybe
                          > > this minimal activity is normal?
                          > >
                          > > TIA
                          > > Peter
                          >
                          >
                          > Could be many things. Did you use sprouted wheat?, or barley?
                          > Wheat sometimes gives poor conversion.
                          > I assume you had everything else right such as...
                          > Iodine test for conversion.
                          > OSG recorded.
                          > pH between 4 and 5.
                          > Pitching temp ~25°C.
                          >
                          > If all that was right, then give it up to 24hrs. If the activity
                          > doesn't improve, repitch with fresh yeast. That's about all I can
                          > offer. Sven is the man to talk to on all-grain mashes. He may
                          know
                          > some other angles.
                          >
                          >
                          > Slainte!
                          > regards Harry

                          I've had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate
                          from "standard" beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to
                          use at least 35% 6 row high enzyme barley, and hold conversion
                          temperature for 3 hours with a mash out. I make a yeast starter, and
                          aquarium pump in air for 12 hours minimum. I batch sparge, if that
                          matters.

                          Wheat sure makes a good whiskey, though. It's worth the hassle.

                          Mark
                        • pguy40
                          ... and ... I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a while for those yeasties to become aroused :-) Everything went real well, had
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 2, 2005
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                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            > I've had a couple of wheat mashes stick on me when I deviate
                            > from "standard" beer making procedures. For me, safest way is to
                            > use at least 35% 6 row high enzyme barley, and hold conversion
                            > temperature for 3 hours with a mash out. I make a yeast starter,
                            and
                            > aquarium pump in air for 12 hours minimum. I batch sparge, if that
                            > matters.
                            >
                            > Wheat sure makes a good whiskey, though. It's worth the hassle.
                            >
                            > Mark

                            I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a
                            while for those yeasties to become aroused :-)

                            Everything went real well, had a good conversion, pumped air for 30
                            minutes before pitching yeast. First 6 hours showed little activity.
                            Now 24 hours later it's bubbling fairly aggressively.

                            Thanks all,
                            peter
                          • Mark
                            ... Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And if you can, I d like to know what the final / terminal specific gravity is. Oh, and
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 5, 2005
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                              > I used malted wheat, it seems to be working fine now, it just took a
                              > while for those yeasties to become aroused :-)
                              >
                              > Everything went real well, had a good conversion, pumped air for 30
                              > minutes before pitching yeast. First 6 hours showed little activity.
                              > Now 24 hours later it's bubbling fairly aggressively.
                              >
                              > Thanks all,
                              > peter

                              Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And
                              if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                              gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?

                              Mark
                            • pguy40
                              ... OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up with about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used about 9 lbs of
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 7, 2005
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                                > Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity? And
                                > if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                                > gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?
                                >
                                > Mark

                                OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up with
                                about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used
                                about 9 lbs of wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt.

                                Peter
                              • Mark
                                ... And ... with ... Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer: For a 5 GAL BATCH : 2.5LB lager malt 5 LB wheat malt you should get an original
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 7, 2005
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                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pguy40" <pguy40@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Did you happen to measure the initial/original specific gravity?
                                  And
                                  > > if you can, I'd like to know what the final / terminal specific
                                  > > gravity is. Oh, and how many pounds/kg's of wheat did you use?
                                  > >
                                  > > Mark
                                  >
                                  > OG 1.048 FG 1.016 It may not have been done fermenting, I ended up
                                  with
                                  > about 5% alc out of the wash (72 hours after pitching yeast). I used
                                  > about 9 lbs of wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt.
                                  >
                                  > Peter

                                  Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer:
                                  For a "5 GAL BATCH":
                                  2.5LB lager malt
                                  5 LB wheat malt
                                  you should get an original gravity of around 1.048, and after
                                  fermentation a final gravity of around 1.013.

                                  The lager malt in the above recipe is necessary to provide conversion
                                  enzymes. I don't understand how 9 lb wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt
                                  converted to fermentable sugars.

                                  Malted wheat is something like 38 points/pound/gal assuming good
                                  decent mash & sparging techniques. 1 pound of malted wheat should
                                  provide a gravity of 1.038 in a 1 gal batch. But wheat malt won't
                                  convert itself (starch to sugar).
                                • pguy40
                                  ... Not sure how it works myself, but I did it based on an Ian Smiley recipe for an all wheat vodka. I think you can find it somewhere on brewhaus.com Peter
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                                    > Comparing it to a conventional wheat home brew beer:
                                    > For a "5 GAL BATCH":
                                    > 2.5LB lager malt
                                    > 5 LB wheat malt
                                    > you should get an original gravity of around 1.048, and after
                                    > fermentation a final gravity of around 1.013.
                                    >
                                    > The lager malt in the above recipe is necessary to provide conversion
                                    > enzymes. I don't understand how 9 lb wheat and 1.5 lbs of wheat malt
                                    > converted to fermentable sugars.
                                    >
                                    > Malted wheat is something like 38 points/pound/gal assuming good
                                    > decent mash & sparging techniques. 1 pound of malted wheat should
                                    > provide a gravity of 1.038 in a 1 gal batch. But wheat malt won't
                                    > convert itself (starch to sugar).

                                    Not sure how it works myself, but I did it based on an Ian Smiley
                                    recipe for an all wheat vodka. I think you can find it somewhere on
                                    brewhaus.com

                                    Peter
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