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Re: smashed dreams

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  • Harry
    Hi Rob, ... ................3 grown up with kids of their own, 4 in primary school (K-8), 1 in yr 11 high school. I ve got two grandkids older than my
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 20, 2005
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      Hi Rob,

      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thomas
      <whosbrewing@y...> wrote:
      > Hi all,
      > having got the news that Harry has kids, one of my
      > visions has suddenly been smashed.


      ................3 grown up with kids of their own, 4 in primary
      school (K-8), 1 in yr 11 high school. I've got two grandkids older
      than my youngest child. Blame it on a lack of interest in TV. ;-)


      > I always pictured Harry as some kind of philosopher
      > type wise man (you know, long white beard, Gandhi type
      > clothing, sitting hermit like in a cave somewhere,
      > consulted oracle-like by the unwashed masses).


      .................You got the beard right, and my wife calls my
      computer room 'the cave'. Ghandi??? Nah, I never got into the
      Nehru Collar look (Sargent Pepper for you youngsters).

      > Now I am forced to concede he's just a regular
      > brainiac like the rest of us. (plus his kids are just
      > a bit easily scared!!)

      ..................That buzzer came outta nowhere; I think they
      watch too much sci-fi.


      >
      > Seriously though Harry (assuming you got this far GG)
      > on the armagnac site they claim the feed wine is put
      > in at 80dC after preheating by acting as cooling
      > "water". How? I don't get the thermodynamics. Product
      > condenses at <80 (??) but cooler is greater?
      > Any ideas?
      > Cheers,
      > Rob
      > (p.s. stimulating conversation, but also intrigued)


      The feed wine goes into the condenser as the coolant. When it
      leaves the top of the condenser, it has picked up heat from the
      vapour in the worm, just like the coolant in a liebig condenser;
      when it leaves it is hot. This of course is once the system is
      under way i.e. producing vapour. Initially the feed is room
      temperature.

      Assuming there's vapour entering the worm, the heat of the vapour
      transfers into the coolant (the wine). The wine leaves the
      condenser and enters the tower at ~80°C. In a counterflow
      condenser, the temp of the fluid leaving the condenser shellside can
      actually be hotter than the fluid (the vapour) entering the
      tubeside. Sounds complicated I know, but just accept it as fact.
      That's one of the things that makes this type condenser more
      efficient than any other.

      The 80°C pre-heated wine (which is lower than its boiling point) now
      enters the top of the tray tower. Remember that a water/ethanol
      MIXTURE (the wine) boils at a point somewhat higher than pure
      ethanol, yet lower than pure water, depending on what the percentage
      of ethanol is. For wine 10 to 18% its around the 88 to 92°C mark.
      Therefore the 80°C feed into the top of the tray tower is pre-heated
      to recover what would otherwise be waste heat, yet not so hot as to
      start bubbling and separating, which would lower the efficiency.

      Once in the tray tower, everything acts as a normal column. The
      descending liquid reaches its boiling point per medium of rising
      steam, begins separating and the enriched vapours tend to travel
      upward while the liquids tend to travel downwards. The liquid (now
      almost all water) gets to the bottom of the tower, where it pools
      and acts as a source for the steam and heat the tower needs to
      operate. It also acts as a kind of 'thumper', and the runoff, when
      it gets too high, is fed back to the boiler.

      This boiler/thumper arrangement is really a 're-boiler'
      configuration as in the Coffey Still, or the continuous columns we
      see today used for grain neutral spirit (GNS). The only time the
      boiler actually boils straight wine is in the initial startup, when
      there's no heat in the system. Once under way, the boiler is only
      reboiling 'bottoms' from the tower to provide heat (steam) and
      recover whatever small amount of alcohol may still be present.

      The boiler is a recycling system, and the condenser also recycles
      recovered heat. Thus it's a reasonably efficient design, even if it
      is ancient.

      HTH
      Slainte!
      regards Harry
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