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RE:Re: Hydrometer Question ?

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  • Harry
    ... the heat ... fermentor and ... stirred ... of water. ... that the ... well, and ... Steve, You are right about the water. He s actually put in about 20
    Message 1 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Sells" <kyoto@c...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > > [Original Message]
      > >
      > > >>> the sugar was well disovled. I boiled 8 l of water, turned
      the heat
      > off, put in one bag at a time, vigorously stirring until completely
      > disolved before adding the next bag. Poured this into my
      fermentor and
      > topped up tp 25 L, after whiched I stirred somemore. It was also
      stirred
      > frequently why trying to get the product to cool.
      > >
      >
      > Sir
      >
      > IF you indeed topped up to the 25 L mark then you do not have 25
      of water.
      > If your 25 liters is including the added 8kg, because you forgot
      that the
      > sugar takes up volume as well, I would bet you are off there as
      well, and
      > the osmotic pressure of that much Sugar is hard on the yeast.
      >
      > Steve, in the states


      Steve,
      You are right about the water. He's actually put in about 20
      litres. That plus the 8 kg sugar dissolved makes 25 litres.
      However, Prestige yeast is supposed to be set up just like that, so
      he's done nothing wrong.
      The initial gravity will be 1.122, and the potential alcohol will be
      18.8%
      That's Prestiges' Turbo specs.

      What people don't understand about high yield washes is that the
      higher the percentage of alcohol, the harder it is to break the
      chemical bond between water & alcohol during distillation. IOW, it
      takes more power. That's another reason why commercial outfits keep
      their washes around the 8% to 10% mark.

      Slainte!
      regards Harry

      p.s.
      17 grams of sugar in a one-liter mash, fermented to a low Oechsle
      degree on the negative side (lower then 1.000 on S.G. on a
      hydrometer) yields 1% alcohol.
      Thus, for example, for 25 litres of mash at 18% we need 25 x 18 x 17
      grams of sugar = 7650 grams of sugar, or approximately 8 kg.

      Oechsle scale is a system used in Germany to measure the sugar in
      unfermented grape juice.

      H
    • stevolate
      Hi Don Don t worry. I use alcotec 48 turbo and have tried most others. The instructions are pour 21 litres of 40c water & 8kg sugar in fermenter. Makes 25
      Message 2 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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        Hi Don
        Don't worry.
        I use alcotec 48 turbo and have tried most others.
        The instructions are pour 21 litres of 40c water & 8kg sugar in
        fermenter. Makes 25 litres. I use boiling water and when cooled to 25c
        I add the yeast. Never had a problem with single batch. SG at 20c
        before adding yeast is 1130, which on my hydrometer is bottom of red.
        It has always ended at top of red on other end SG 990

        SG start 1.130 subtract finish SG of 0.990 = .140 x 132 = 18.48% alc

        Weighed half dozen bags sugar and they were exact 2kg.

        Happy drinking

        Stevo

        > I've been lurking in this and /Distillers group since December. I've
        > spent a lot of time surfing through the numerous on-line resources
        > and purchasing the requisite equipment. This past W/E I decided to
        > take the plunge and start my first sugar wash with Prestige Turbo 8.
        > When I took the initial SG, the Hydrometer read 1.12 @ 32 deg C.
        > Rather then do the temp conversion, I decided to wait for the sample
        > to cool to 20 deg. However, when the sample was 20 deg, the HD
        > reading went off the scale. ie: 1.12 is the first defined measure
        > on the scale. The Hydrometer settled below this at a faint line
      • Lindsay Williams
        Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts within 20 minutes! As
        Message 3 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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          Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
          strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
          within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
          your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
          if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.

          Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
          still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
          wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
          and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
          It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
          your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
          should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
          should work!!

          Good luck and let's know how you go.

          Cheers,
          Lindsay.

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross <donald.ross@r...>
          wrote:
          > Thanks Moose??
          >
          > I appreciate the welcome. Your comments have put put me at ease. I
          was really confused about the SG reading. It did sort of indicate I
          used to much sugar. The wash seems to be doing OK. I pitched the
          yeast Sat. afternoon. Yesterday, I was getting nervous, no signs of
          escaping CO. However, this am, the old air lock was percolating just
          nicely<g>. I'll definately let you know how it turns out. I plan on
          distilling some water this W/E just to get the feel of it. I'm using
          the Brewhaus EE Pro II. I have to figure out how to control the reflux.
          >
          > Don
          >
          > Snowblind Moose <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Don and Welcome to the exciting world of home distilling! (Did I
          > sound like a advertising promoter!)
          >
          > I've used the prestige Turbo yeasts MANY times. I don't even check
          > the S.G. anymore. Add 8 Kg. (I usually use 2, 4 Kg. bags) to hot
          > tap-water (boiling is not needed)let it drop below 35 degrees or so -
          > then add the packet. Stir well and put the lock on. Keep it between
          > 20 and 30 degrees (20 is slower and better) and you'll have 18% very
          > clean mash. (in other words - follow the directions! LOL) I like to
          > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.
          >
          > Some folks tell you not to push yeast higher than 1.100. I believe
          > this was a great rule before the turbos came out. Turbos are made to
          > be tolerant of higher alcohol concentrations. They make a cleaner
          > mash than regular yeasts
          >
          > You can really relax at this point. From my experience - the stuff
          > is foolproof!
          >
          > Good Luck, let us know how your 1st run turns out.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Donald Ross
          I don t know why it took so long to start. Everything s fine now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock bobs ) per
          Message 4 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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            I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer to 20. Maybe it was the cooler start?? You're right about not really learning anything from distilling water. I realised that almost as soon as I hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to distill my own water for future washes though...

            Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up to date.

            Cheers...

            Don

            Lindsay Williams <linw@...> wrote:
            Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
            strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
            within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
            your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
            if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.

            Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
            still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
            wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
            and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
            It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
            your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
            should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
            should work!!

            Good luck and let's know how you go.

            Cheers,
            Lindsay.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Harry
            ... now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock bobs ) per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast at? The
            Message 5 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross
              <donald.ross@r...> wrote:
              > I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine
              now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase
              when the air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch
              your yeast at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer
              to 20. Maybe it was the cooler start?? You're right about not
              really learning anything from distilling water. I realised that
              almost as soon as I hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to
              distill my own water for future washes though...
              >
              > Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up
              to date.
              >
              > Cheers...
              >
              > Don


              The slow start was due to the 20°C startup. 25+ is more suitable.

              re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
              distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
              nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
              establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
              will your wash be.


              Slainte!
              regards Harry
            • Donald Ross
              Thanks for the heads up Harry. I ll save the distilled water for dillution purposes. Cheers... Don re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
              Message 6 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                Thanks for the heads up Harry. I'll save the distilled water for dillution purposes.

                Cheers...

                Don


                re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
                nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
                establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
                will your wash be.


                Slainte!
                regards Harry



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lindsay Williams
                My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer specifies for best
                Message 7 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                  My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                  is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                  specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                  that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and go!

                  Cheers,
                  Lindsay.

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross <donald.ross@r...>
                  wrote:
                  > I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine now.
                  This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the
                  air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast
                  at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer to 20. Maybe
                  it was the cooler start?? You're right about not really learning
                  anything from distilling water. I realised that almost as soon as I
                  hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to distill my own water for
                  future washes though...
                  >
                  > Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up to
                  date.
                  >
                  > Cheers...
                  >
                  > Don
                  >
                  > Lindsay Williams <linw@x...> wrote:
                  > Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
                  > strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
                  > within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
                  > your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
                  > if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.
                  >
                  > Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
                  > still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
                  > wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
                  > and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
                  > It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
                  > your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
                  > should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
                  > should work!!
                  >
                  > Good luck and let's know how you go.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Lindsay.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mark
                  ... I like to ... I m on the fence about finings. I do it just because I m anal. I just don t know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it SEEMS
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Snowblind Moose"
                    <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    I like to
                    > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.


                    I'm on the fence about finings. I do it just because I'm anal. I
                    just don't know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it
                    SEEMS like finings help grain ferments for whiskey a lot, but also
                    SEEM to help sugar vodkas. I can't measure a difference in yield of
                    drinkable products though. Do you use polyclear?

                    Mark
                  • Mark
                    ... I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump & stone, but I m told that an agressive stirring will do just as well. Mark
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                      > re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                      > distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
                      > nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
                      > establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
                      > will your wash be.
                      >
                      >
                      > Slainte!
                      > regards Harry

                      I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump &
                      stone, but I'm told that an agressive stirring will do just as well.

                      Mark
                    • Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                      Very strong and brute downpour of cold water from a household faucet or garden hose is usually enough for me. I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                        Very strong and brute downpour of cold water from a household faucet or garden hose is usually enough for me.

                        I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump & stone, but I'm told that an agressive stirring will do just as well.
                        Mark



                        Alex_{*L*}_(a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                        http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
























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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Snowblind Moose
                        Hi Mark, I ve used several different finings and clearing agents. The ones that work best for me are the two part finings. The packet I ve been using lately
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                          Hi Mark,

                          I've used several different finings and clearing agents. The ones that
                          work best for me are the two part finings. The packet I've been using
                          lately comes from Brewhaus. It says "Kieselsol Fining A" on one pouch,
                          and "Chitosan Fining B" on the other. You add the 1st, let it stand an
                          hour, then add the second. I've used other brands of the same type of
                          two part finings with equal success. It sure keeps the sediment on the
                          bottom during racking - but like you, I'm not sure it's essential!

                          Cheers,
                          -Tony




                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Snowblind Moose"
                          > <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > I like to
                          > > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm on the fence about finings. I do it just because I'm anal. I
                          > just don't know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it
                          > SEEMS like finings help grain ferments for whiskey a lot, but also
                          > SEEM to help sugar vodkas. I can't measure a difference in yield of
                          > drinkable products though. Do you use polyclear?
                          >
                          > Mark
                        • Mark
                          Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast? Mark ... go!
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 6, 2005
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                            Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast?

                            Mark


                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                            wrote:
                            > My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                            > is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                            > specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                            > that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and
                            go!
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Lindsay.
                            >
                          • Lindsay Williams
                            Nope. I just tip the packet straight in and thrash the hell out of it with a plastic paddle/stirrer to mix it in and get some oxygen into the water. Just
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 8, 2005
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                              Nope. I just tip the packet straight in and thrash the hell out of it
                              with a plastic paddle/stirrer to mix it in and get some oxygen into
                              the water. Just standard practice for turbos.

                              Cheers,
                              Lindsay.

                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                              > Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast?
                              >
                              > Mark
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                              > wrote:
                              > > My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                              > > is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                              > > specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                              > > that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and
                              > go!
                              > >
                              > > Cheers,
                              > > Lindsay.
                              > >
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