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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Hydrometer Question ?

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  • Donald Ross
    Thanks Mark, replies in-line.. OSG is probably about 1.123 or so at 20C.) ... ( homedistiller.org has a volume to weight calculator - but ... ( too late for
    Message 1 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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      Thanks Mark, replies in-line..


      OSG is probably about 1.123 or so at 20C.)
      >>> I'll try 1.123 as my OSG when the time comes

      ( homedistiller.org has a volume to weight calculator - but
      >>> I've seen that page and the instructions for the Pretige Euopean Connection Kit says that most 2 kg bags are overweight and to use 35 cups instead. I just thought that was an lot of work, but not doing it could have caused the HD reading???
      ( too late for this batch, but make sure the sugar was fully
      dissolved in the water. That means a lot of mechanical agitation
      followed by a good boil. Undissolved sugars won't ferment, and cause
      off tastes in the stilled product. )

      >>> the sugar was well disovled. I boiled 8 l of water, turned the heat off, put in one bag at a time, vigorously stirring until completely disolved before adding the next bag. Poured this into my fermentor and topped up tp 25 L, after whiched I stirred somemore. It was also stirred frequently why trying to get the product to cool.

      ( if possible, keep the fermenter in a cold place - like around
      25C.

      >>> The ambient temp of the house doesn't excceed 20 during the day, and the furnace is off at night. (summer will be of a challenge). The fermenter is sitting in the ktchen where the tile floors are cooler.

      Cheers.

      Don




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Donald Ross
      Thomas Kehrlein wrote: But apparently, and more criticaly, you have used too much sugar. did they give you a starting SG to expect? Thomas
      Message 2 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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        Thomas Kehrlein <tom@...> wrote:
        But apparently, and more criticaly, you have used too much sugar. did
        they give you a starting SG to expect?
        Thomas

        Hi Thomas

        No, no where is it documented what the expected OSG should be. Maybe some of the more experienced with the Prestige line could provide some insight. You're right about too much sugar. As previously stated, I suspect this is because I got lazy and just dumped in the 4 @ 2 lg bags instead of measuring it. I've been told that it is not uncommon to have a 2 kg bag of sugar actually weight more than 2 kg. I'll measure for my next wash and see what happens.



        Cheers.......

        Don



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Snowblind Moose
        Hi Don and Welcome to the exciting world of home distilling! (Did I sound like a advertising promoter!) I ve used the prestige Turbo yeasts MANY times. I
        Message 3 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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          Hi Don and Welcome to the exciting world of home distilling! (Did I
          sound like a advertising promoter!)

          I've used the prestige Turbo yeasts MANY times. I don't even check
          the S.G. anymore. Add 8 Kg. (I usually use 2, 4 Kg. bags) to hot
          tap-water (boiling is not needed)let it drop below 35 degrees or so -
          then add the packet. Stir well and put the lock on. Keep it between
          20 and 30 degrees (20 is slower and better) and you'll have 18% very
          clean mash. (in other words - follow the directions! LOL) I like to
          use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.

          Some folks tell you not to push yeast higher than 1.100. I believe
          this was a great rule before the turbos came out. Turbos are made to
          be tolerant of higher alcohol concentrations. They make a cleaner
          mash than regular yeasts

          You can really relax at this point. From my experience - the stuff
          is foolproof!

          Good Luck, let us know how your 1st run turns out.

          > Greetings
          >
          > I've been lurking in this and /Distillers group since December.
          I've
          > spent a lot of time surfing through the numerous on-line resources
          > and purchasing the requisite equipment. This past W/E I decided to
          > take the plunge and start my first sugar wash with Prestige Turbo
          8.
          > When I took the initial SG, the Hydrometer read 1.12 @ 32 deg C.
          > Rather then do the temp conversion, I decided to wait for the
          sample
          > to cool to 20 deg. However, when the sample was 20 deg, the HD
          > reading went off the scale. ie: 1.12 is the first defined measure
          > on the scale. The Hydrometer settled below this at a faint line
          that
          > resembles the 1/2 increments you see between 1.12, 1.11 etc. Have
          > any of you seen this before, and what figure would I use to
          calculate
          > the abv when the fermentation is complete? Also, would anyone know
          > what would cause this?
          >
          > Also, I did not explicitly measure the sugar as I've seen
          > recommended. I simply used 4 @ 2kg bags. How many of you actually
          > measure the sugar, approx 35 cups, as opposed to just dumping in
          the
          > 4 bags? Has anyone actually measured the difference between sold
          > weight (2 KG) versus actual product? It is possible that I've used
          > to much sugar. I'll let you know the final SG when the
          fermentation
          > is complete. That's it for now. I'm sure I'll have many more
          > questions as time goes on.
          >
          > Cheers.......
          >
          > Don
        • Donald Ross
          Thanks Moose?? I appreciate the welcome. Your comments have put put me at ease. I was really confused about the SG reading. It did sort of indicate I used
          Message 4 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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            Thanks Moose??

            I appreciate the welcome. Your comments have put put me at ease. I was really confused about the SG reading. It did sort of indicate I used to much sugar. The wash seems to be doing OK. I pitched the yeast Sat. afternoon. Yesterday, I was getting nervous, no signs of escaping CO. However, this am, the old air lock was percolating just nicely<g>. I'll definately let you know how it turns out. I plan on distilling some water this W/E just to get the feel of it. I'm using the Brewhaus EE Pro II. I have to figure out how to control the reflux.

            Don

            Snowblind Moose <tonkay1@...> wrote:


            Hi Don and Welcome to the exciting world of home distilling! (Did I
            sound like a advertising promoter!)

            I've used the prestige Turbo yeasts MANY times. I don't even check
            the S.G. anymore. Add 8 Kg. (I usually use 2, 4 Kg. bags) to hot
            tap-water (boiling is not needed)let it drop below 35 degrees or so -
            then add the packet. Stir well and put the lock on. Keep it between
            20 and 30 degrees (20 is slower and better) and you'll have 18% very
            clean mash. (in other words - follow the directions! LOL) I like to
            use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.

            Some folks tell you not to push yeast higher than 1.100. I believe
            this was a great rule before the turbos came out. Turbos are made to
            be tolerant of higher alcohol concentrations. They make a cleaner
            mash than regular yeasts

            You can really relax at this point. From my experience - the stuff
            is foolproof!

            Good Luck, let us know how your 1st run turns out.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steve Sells
            ... off, put in one bag at a time, vigorously stirring until completely disolved before adding the next bag. Poured this into my fermentor and topped up tp 25
            Message 5 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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              > [Original Message]
              >
              > >>> the sugar was well disovled. I boiled 8 l of water, turned the heat
              off, put in one bag at a time, vigorously stirring until completely
              disolved before adding the next bag. Poured this into my fermentor and
              topped up tp 25 L, after whiched I stirred somemore. It was also stirred
              frequently why trying to get the product to cool.
              >

              Sir

              IF you indeed topped up to the 25 L mark then you do not have 25 of water.
              If your 25 liters is including the added 8kg, because you forgot that the
              sugar takes up volume as well, I would bet you are off there as well, and
              the osmotic pressure of that much Sugar is hard on the yeast.

              Steve, in the states
            • Harry
              ... the heat ... fermentor and ... stirred ... of water. ... that the ... well, and ... Steve, You are right about the water. He s actually put in about 20
              Message 6 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Sells" <kyoto@c...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > > [Original Message]
                > >
                > > >>> the sugar was well disovled. I boiled 8 l of water, turned
                the heat
                > off, put in one bag at a time, vigorously stirring until completely
                > disolved before adding the next bag. Poured this into my
                fermentor and
                > topped up tp 25 L, after whiched I stirred somemore. It was also
                stirred
                > frequently why trying to get the product to cool.
                > >
                >
                > Sir
                >
                > IF you indeed topped up to the 25 L mark then you do not have 25
                of water.
                > If your 25 liters is including the added 8kg, because you forgot
                that the
                > sugar takes up volume as well, I would bet you are off there as
                well, and
                > the osmotic pressure of that much Sugar is hard on the yeast.
                >
                > Steve, in the states


                Steve,
                You are right about the water. He's actually put in about 20
                litres. That plus the 8 kg sugar dissolved makes 25 litres.
                However, Prestige yeast is supposed to be set up just like that, so
                he's done nothing wrong.
                The initial gravity will be 1.122, and the potential alcohol will be
                18.8%
                That's Prestiges' Turbo specs.

                What people don't understand about high yield washes is that the
                higher the percentage of alcohol, the harder it is to break the
                chemical bond between water & alcohol during distillation. IOW, it
                takes more power. That's another reason why commercial outfits keep
                their washes around the 8% to 10% mark.

                Slainte!
                regards Harry

                p.s.
                17 grams of sugar in a one-liter mash, fermented to a low Oechsle
                degree on the negative side (lower then 1.000 on S.G. on a
                hydrometer) yields 1% alcohol.
                Thus, for example, for 25 litres of mash at 18% we need 25 x 18 x 17
                grams of sugar = 7650 grams of sugar, or approximately 8 kg.

                Oechsle scale is a system used in Germany to measure the sugar in
                unfermented grape juice.

                H
              • stevolate
                Hi Don Don t worry. I use alcotec 48 turbo and have tried most others. The instructions are pour 21 litres of 40c water & 8kg sugar in fermenter. Makes 25
                Message 7 of 23 , May 2, 2005
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                  Hi Don
                  Don't worry.
                  I use alcotec 48 turbo and have tried most others.
                  The instructions are pour 21 litres of 40c water & 8kg sugar in
                  fermenter. Makes 25 litres. I use boiling water and when cooled to 25c
                  I add the yeast. Never had a problem with single batch. SG at 20c
                  before adding yeast is 1130, which on my hydrometer is bottom of red.
                  It has always ended at top of red on other end SG 990

                  SG start 1.130 subtract finish SG of 0.990 = .140 x 132 = 18.48% alc

                  Weighed half dozen bags sugar and they were exact 2kg.

                  Happy drinking

                  Stevo

                  > I've been lurking in this and /Distillers group since December. I've
                  > spent a lot of time surfing through the numerous on-line resources
                  > and purchasing the requisite equipment. This past W/E I decided to
                  > take the plunge and start my first sugar wash with Prestige Turbo 8.
                  > When I took the initial SG, the Hydrometer read 1.12 @ 32 deg C.
                  > Rather then do the temp conversion, I decided to wait for the sample
                  > to cool to 20 deg. However, when the sample was 20 deg, the HD
                  > reading went off the scale. ie: 1.12 is the first defined measure
                  > on the scale. The Hydrometer settled below this at a faint line
                • Lindsay Williams
                  Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts within 20 minutes! As
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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                    Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
                    strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
                    within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
                    your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
                    if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.

                    Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
                    still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
                    wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
                    and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
                    It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
                    your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
                    should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
                    should work!!

                    Good luck and let's know how you go.

                    Cheers,
                    Lindsay.

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross <donald.ross@r...>
                    wrote:
                    > Thanks Moose??
                    >
                    > I appreciate the welcome. Your comments have put put me at ease. I
                    was really confused about the SG reading. It did sort of indicate I
                    used to much sugar. The wash seems to be doing OK. I pitched the
                    yeast Sat. afternoon. Yesterday, I was getting nervous, no signs of
                    escaping CO. However, this am, the old air lock was percolating just
                    nicely<g>. I'll definately let you know how it turns out. I plan on
                    distilling some water this W/E just to get the feel of it. I'm using
                    the Brewhaus EE Pro II. I have to figure out how to control the reflux.
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                    > Snowblind Moose <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Don and Welcome to the exciting world of home distilling! (Did I
                    > sound like a advertising promoter!)
                    >
                    > I've used the prestige Turbo yeasts MANY times. I don't even check
                    > the S.G. anymore. Add 8 Kg. (I usually use 2, 4 Kg. bags) to hot
                    > tap-water (boiling is not needed)let it drop below 35 degrees or so -
                    > then add the packet. Stir well and put the lock on. Keep it between
                    > 20 and 30 degrees (20 is slower and better) and you'll have 18% very
                    > clean mash. (in other words - follow the directions! LOL) I like to
                    > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.
                    >
                    > Some folks tell you not to push yeast higher than 1.100. I believe
                    > this was a great rule before the turbos came out. Turbos are made to
                    > be tolerant of higher alcohol concentrations. They make a cleaner
                    > mash than regular yeasts
                    >
                    > You can really relax at this point. From my experience - the stuff
                    > is foolproof!
                    >
                    > Good Luck, let us know how your 1st run turns out.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Donald Ross
                    I don t know why it took so long to start. Everything s fine now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock bobs ) per
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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                      I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer to 20. Maybe it was the cooler start?? You're right about not really learning anything from distilling water. I realised that almost as soon as I hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to distill my own water for future washes though...

                      Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up to date.

                      Cheers...

                      Don

                      Lindsay Williams <linw@...> wrote:
                      Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
                      strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
                      within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
                      your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
                      if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.

                      Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
                      still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
                      wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
                      and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
                      It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
                      your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
                      should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
                      should work!!

                      Good luck and let's know how you go.

                      Cheers,
                      Lindsay.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Harry
                      ... now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the air lock bobs ) per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast at? The
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 3, 2005
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross
                        <donald.ross@r...> wrote:
                        > I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine
                        now. This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase
                        when the air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch
                        your yeast at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer
                        to 20. Maybe it was the cooler start?? You're right about not
                        really learning anything from distilling water. I realised that
                        almost as soon as I hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to
                        distill my own water for future washes though...
                        >
                        > Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up
                        to date.
                        >
                        > Cheers...
                        >
                        > Don


                        The slow start was due to the 20°C startup. 25+ is more suitable.

                        re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                        distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
                        nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
                        establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
                        will your wash be.


                        Slainte!
                        regards Harry
                      • Donald Ross
                        Thanks for the heads up Harry. I ll save the distilled water for dillution purposes. Cheers... Don re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                          Thanks for the heads up Harry. I'll save the distilled water for dillution purposes.

                          Cheers...

                          Don


                          re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                          distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
                          nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
                          establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
                          will your wash be.


                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Lindsay Williams
                          My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer specifies for best
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                            My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                            is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                            specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                            that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and go!

                            Cheers,
                            Lindsay.

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross <donald.ross@r...>
                            wrote:
                            > I don't know why it took so long to start. Everything's fine now.
                            This am. I timed 15 CO2 escapes (for lack of a better phrase when the
                            air lock 'bobs') per min. What temp do you usually pitch your yeast
                            at? The instructions said less than 30 C. I was closer to 20. Maybe
                            it was the cooler start?? You're right about not really learning
                            anything from distilling water. I realised that almost as soon as I
                            hit the 'Send' on that reply. I do want to distill my own water for
                            future washes though...
                            >
                            > Thanks for the encouragement. I'll defininately keep you all up to
                            date.
                            >
                            > Cheers...
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                            > Lindsay Williams <linw@x...> wrote:
                            > Like Moose says, turbos are very easy and repeatable. That said, it is
                            > strange that yours is taking so long to produce CO2. Mine starts
                            > within 20 minutes! As Harry has pointed out many times, check that
                            > your fermenter isn't leaking the gas out somewhere else. I know that
                            > if I tighten my lid too much it makes it leak.
                            >
                            > Your idea to train on water is not really much of an idea IMHO. The
                            > still behaves so differently that I can only see you learning the
                            > wrong things and, perhaps, getting confused. An alcohol mix is easier
                            > and is the only way you can learn the art when all is said and done.
                            > It will take at least four runs to get a good idea of how to control
                            > your still (and most of us, even a lot more!). But your first run
                            > should be OK'ish if you follow the basics. Being a commercial still it
                            > should work!!
                            >
                            > Good luck and let's know how you go.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Lindsay.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Mark
                            ... I like to ... I m on the fence about finings. I do it just because I m anal. I just don t know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it SEEMS
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Snowblind Moose"
                              <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              I like to
                              > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.


                              I'm on the fence about finings. I do it just because I'm anal. I
                              just don't know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it
                              SEEMS like finings help grain ferments for whiskey a lot, but also
                              SEEM to help sugar vodkas. I can't measure a difference in yield of
                              drinkable products though. Do you use polyclear?

                              Mark
                            • Mark
                              ... I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump & stone, but I m told that an agressive stirring will do just as well. Mark
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                                > re the distilled water. DO NOT under any circumstances use
                                > distilled water for washes. Plain water contains dissolved oxygen,
                                > nutrients, metallic elements etc. all of which yeast needs to
                                > establish a colony. Distilled water has none. It is DEAD, and so
                                > will your wash be.
                                >
                                >
                                > Slainte!
                                > regards Harry

                                I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump &
                                stone, but I'm told that an agressive stirring will do just as well.

                                Mark
                              • Alex _{*L*}_ (a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                                Very strong and brute downpour of cold water from a household faucet or garden hose is usually enough for me. I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                                  Very strong and brute downpour of cold water from a household faucet or garden hose is usually enough for me.

                                  I think boiled water is also very low in O2. I use an aquarium pump & stone, but I'm told that an agressive stirring will do just as well.
                                  Mark



                                  Alex_{*L*}_(a.k.a. BOKAKOB)
                                  http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob
























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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Snowblind Moose
                                  Hi Mark, I ve used several different finings and clearing agents. The ones that work best for me are the two part finings. The packet I ve been using lately
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 4, 2005
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                                    Hi Mark,

                                    I've used several different finings and clearing agents. The ones that
                                    work best for me are the two part finings. The packet I've been using
                                    lately comes from Brewhaus. It says "Kieselsol Fining A" on one pouch,
                                    and "Chitosan Fining B" on the other. You add the 1st, let it stand an
                                    hour, then add the second. I've used other brands of the same type of
                                    two part finings with equal success. It sure keeps the sediment on the
                                    bottom during racking - but like you, I'm not sure it's essential!

                                    Cheers,
                                    -Tony




                                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Snowblind Moose"
                                    > <tonkay1@y...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > I like to
                                    > > use finings to clear it - but some folks don't.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm on the fence about finings. I do it just because I'm anal. I
                                    > just don't know, and I keep good logs. Based on taste alone - it
                                    > SEEMS like finings help grain ferments for whiskey a lot, but also
                                    > SEEM to help sugar vodkas. I can't measure a difference in yield of
                                    > drinkable products though. Do you use polyclear?
                                    >
                                    > Mark
                                  • Mark
                                    Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast? Mark ... go!
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 6, 2005
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                                      Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast?

                                      Mark


                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                                      wrote:
                                      > My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                                      > is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                                      > specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                                      > that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and
                                      go!
                                      >
                                      > Cheers,
                                      > Lindsay.
                                      >
                                    • Lindsay Williams
                                      Nope. I just tip the packet straight in and thrash the hell out of it with a plastic paddle/stirrer to mix it in and get some oxygen into the water. Just
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 8, 2005
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                                        Nope. I just tip the packet straight in and thrash the hell out of it
                                        with a plastic paddle/stirrer to mix it in and get some oxygen into
                                        the water. Just standard practice for turbos.

                                        Cheers,
                                        Lindsay.

                                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
                                        > Lindsay, do you use a starter for the yeast?
                                        >
                                        > Mark
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams" <linw@x>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > My Still Spirits Turbo is pitched at 35 deg C. This is what the yeast
                                        > > is designed for. You must always stick to what the manufacturer
                                        > > specifies for best performance. Check what Prestige says and pitch at
                                        > > that temp and you will be amazed at the difference in its get up and
                                        > go!
                                        > >
                                        > > Cheers,
                                        > > Lindsay.
                                        > >
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