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Re: OK, in the middle of my first sugar wash

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  • supasnappahead
    ... I know I probably put in too much DAP. I had to fake it a little on the recipe because there were a few things I couldn t get my hands on. For example,
    Message 1 of 10 , May 1, 2005
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      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <highabv@y...> wrote:
      > The ammonia smell is coming from the nutrients you put in.
      > > It's DiAmmonium Phosphate, or DAP. It supplies nitrogen for the
      > yeast
      > > to do it's thing. Nitrogen depletion = stuck ferment. Good sources
      > > for nitrogen are amino acids & ammoniacs (DAP). Just don't put in
      > > more than the recommended dosage, or you'll have excess left in your
      > > wash. This can cause other problems later like formation of ethyl
      > > carbamate, which is carcinogenic. Always stick to the instructions
      > > when using commercial nutrients.
      > >
      > >
      > > Slainte!
      > > regards Harry
      >
      > IMHO, a little DAP goes a long long way - even with white sugar
      > bills. I suspect this wash already has too much.
      >
      > Harry, would you suggest that this wash be acidified to 5.5 or so
      > PRIOR to first distillation? My bet is he'll see a blue river if he
      > don't.
      >
      >
      > Basics I've learned the I suggest to all beginners:
      > 1. If it's city water, boil every drop you use in the wash.
      > 2. Sugar is hard to fully dissolve. "dumping" don't work. It needs
      > heat and/or mechanical agitation.
      > 3. Always make a yeast starter (as in Harry's reply)
      > 4. Use a minimum of 2 5gm packets per 5 gallon batch
      > 5. Pitch the yeast into the starter only when the starter is below 70F
      > 6. Pitch the starter into the wash only when the wash is below 70F

      I know I probably put in too much DAP. I had to fake it a little on
      the recipe because there were a few things I couldn't get my hands on.
      For example, for the DAP, I had straight DAP plus something called
      Superfood. I don't know what the concentration of DAP is in the
      Superfood so... I don't know exactly how much there is in there.

      I did dissolve the first 5# in hot water and then poured that
      suspension over the other 5# in the primary fermenter. It was about
      20 quarts of hot water... I think that did the trick... I didn't boil
      all the city water, though, just about half of it.

      The fermenter's going like crazy today so I'm sure the yeast are
      feasting on all the sugar and nutrients and everything. The airlock
      is bubbling about once per second today, plus or minus.

      Is there a way to distill out any carcinogens that could be in my wash
      or am I stuck with drinking bad booze? Also, I think I'm going to try
      to write up a recipe for a sugar wash that uses my locally available
      ingredients.

      I keep hearing about turbo yeast. Does that increase the yield
      significantly? What's the story with turbo yeast?
    • Mark
      snipity snip snip (I lose yield every time I get lazy and don t boil my city water.) Is there a way to distill out any carcinogens that could be in my wash or
      Message 2 of 10 , May 1, 2005
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        snipity snip snip

        (I lose yield every time I get lazy and don't boil my city water.)

        Is there a way to distill out any carcinogens that could be in my
        wash or am I stuck with drinking bad booze?

        (I might have been totally wrong with my "blue river" comment. Just
        don't add any baking soda to the ferment prior to 1st distillation.
        Try a slow distill (a lot of reflux), maybe 100ml/hr. Every hour
        draw 10 drops into a clean shot glass, mix with 15 drops of water,
        and taste / smell test. Keep the good, pitch the bad.)

        Also, I think I'm going to try to write up a recipe for a sugar wash
        that uses my locally available ingredients.

        (Bokabob already did that. Check in the "Files" section. I have
        never failed to make a good batch using this recipe.)

        I keep hearing about turbo yeast. Does that increase the yield
        significantly? What's the story with turbo yeast?

        (They work very well. I think there are 2 major brands of this type
        of yeast, sold through a number of online stores. Do a web search
        on "turbo yeast", contact the vendors, and make a choice. I think
        I've tried every type and brand of turbo yeast - all work as
        advertised. They cost more than supermarket bread yeast, but they
        also contain nutrients and such for pure sugar washes.)
      • Harry
        ... on ... on. ... about ... boil ... airlock ... wash ... try ... available ... Turbo yeast is commercially bred strains dehydrated & mixed with the right
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1, 2005
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          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "supasnappahead"
          <supasnappahead@y...> wrote:

          >
          > I know I probably put in too much DAP. I had to fake it a little
          on
          > the recipe because there were a few things I couldn't get my hands
          on.
          > For example, for the DAP, I had straight DAP plus something called
          > Superfood. I don't know what the concentration of DAP is in the
          > Superfood so... I don't know exactly how much there is in there.
          >
          > I did dissolve the first 5# in hot water and then poured that
          > suspension over the other 5# in the primary fermenter. It was
          about
          > 20 quarts of hot water... I think that did the trick... I didn't
          boil
          > all the city water, though, just about half of it.
          >
          > The fermenter's going like crazy today so I'm sure the yeast are
          > feasting on all the sugar and nutrients and everything. The
          airlock
          > is bubbling about once per second today, plus or minus.
          >
          > Is there a way to distill out any carcinogens that could be in my
          wash
          > or am I stuck with drinking bad booze? Also, I think I'm going to
          try
          > to write up a recipe for a sugar wash that uses my locally
          available
          > ingredients.
          >
          > I keep hearing about turbo yeast. Does that increase the yield
          > significantly? What's the story with turbo yeast?


          Turbo yeast is commercially bred strains dehydrated & mixed with the
          right dose of nutrients, complete in 1 packet. Usually fairly
          consistent and a no-brainer for beginners.

          re the carcinogens: There's a few things you need to understand...

          1) Wort (the ferment) is a concoction containing yeast, nutrients,
          sugars, alcohols & many other substances. When fermented (now a
          wash), for all intents & purposes it is a low-to-medium strength
          wine. Even straight sugar washes are wines, as are grain and fruit
          washes.

          2) ALL fermented beverages will contain SOME ethyl carbamate
          because Urea reacts spontaneously with the alcohol to form EC,
          usually at the end of the ferment.

          3) Urea is formed from Arginine. Arginine, the main amino acid in
          grape juice and many nutrient mixes, is taken up by yeast as a
          nutrient. Arginine can also be synthesized from other amino acids
          (nutrients) by yeasts and Lactic Acid Bacteria.

          4) The chemical reaction between urea and alcohol is exponentially
          accelerated at elevated temperatures.

          Urea (nitrogen source, fertilizer) has been banned as a nutrient
          source, even though it works fine. There's too much risk of excess
          feeding, thus producing excess EC. DAP (nitrogen source,
          fertilizer) in excess can produce similar results.

          There is some good news. Urea is not volatile (won't distill over)
          and EC itself possesses a poor volatility. However, EC may still be
          found in wine distillates. It can be formed AFTER distillation via
          the reaction of a volatile precursor, isocyanate, and alcohol both
          at ambient and elevated temperatures.

          Producers of fruit wine distillates have to be aware of another
          precursor for ethyl carbamate, in the form of cyanides. Stone-
          fruits, especially such as cherries, apricots or plums, contain
          sugar-bound cyanides in their seeds, which can be released during
          fermentation. Removal of stones prior to fermentation, and a
          secondary distillation are essential to avoid high concentrations of
          volatile EC precursors in this type of spirit.


          Slainte!
          regards Harry
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