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Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

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  • Mike Nixon
    Henry Stamp wrote: Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column... can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :) =============== Hi
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Henry Stamp wrote:
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

      can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :)
      ===============
      Hi Henry,
      LM = Liquid Management
      VM = Vapor Management
      With LM you manage the reflux ratio by controlling how much of the liquid
      condensed by the top condenser is diverted from returning to the column by
      withdrawing it as product, and with VM you manage the reflux ratio by
      withdrawing some of the vapor from the column before it reaches the top
      condenser, then condensing that as product.

      You will no doubt also see CM mentioned occasionally. This stands for
      Cooling Management, and means different things to different folks. With
      some it means putting cooling coils through the middle of the column in an
      attempt to control what happens inside. This is to be avoided at all costs,
      for it only serves to upset the separation process going on inside the
      packing, so making the still far less efficient. I would rename what they
      try to do as "Cooling Meddling"! With others (who do know what they are
      doing) it means managing the flow of cooling water through the top condenser
      in order to control how much vapor gets past it, and hence the reflux ratio.
      The vapor that makes it past that top condenser is collected and liquified
      in a side condenser as the product, just like you do with VM. This is
      sometimes quite a good technique to use, and has been around for a long
      time. However, it does not have the feature that VM offers of automatically
      stopping production towards the end of the main run, when the amount of
      ethanol in the vapor starts to reduce and the tails start to rise in the
      column. Nevertheless, that can be useful when making flavored spirits, for
      then you do want to be able to select parts of the heads and the tails.

      Hope all that makes sense :-))

      All the best,
      Mike N
    • Henry Stamp
      yes, it really helped clear up some stuff. im not sure i ll build a reflux column any time soon, but its still fascinating to learn about :) ... -- --henry
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1, 2005
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        yes, it really helped clear up some stuff. im not sure i'll build a
        reflux column any time soon, but its still fascinating to learn about :)


        Mike Nixon wrote:

        >Hope all that makes sense :-))
        >
        >All the best,
        >Mike N
        >
        >


        --
        --henry
      • abbababbaccc
        Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor increases the cooling
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
          properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
          increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This of
          course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
          suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.

          Greetz, Riku

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
          > time. However, it does not have the feature that VM offers of
          automatically
          > stopping production towards the end of the main run, when the
          amount of
          > ethanol in the vapor starts to reduce and the tails start to rise
          in the
          > column. Nevertheless, that can be useful when making flavored
          spirits, for
          > then you do want to be able to select parts of the heads and the
          tails.
          >
          > Hope all that makes sense :-))
          >
          > All the best,
          > Mike N
        • Mike Nixon
          abbababbaccc wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column... Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted properly.
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 1, 2005
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            abbababbaccc wrote:
            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

            Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
            properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
            increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This of
            course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
            suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.
            ================
            Tarue Riku ... but I was trying to be as general as possible. As you say,
            with careful "tweaking" then it can be made to shut down after the main run
            ... but it's quite a tricky balance to achieve and, as you say, you have to
            be running at a snail's pace.

            All the best,
            Mike N
          • abbababbaccc
            ... of ... you say, ... main run ... have to ... Indeed so, for quality you need to take your time (unfortunately). You can, as a matter of fact, achieve
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 1, 2005
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
              > abbababbaccc wrote:
              > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...
              >
              > Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
              > properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
              > increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This
              of
              > course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
              > suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.
              > ================
              > Tarue Riku ... but I was trying to be as general as possible. As
              you say,
              > with careful "tweaking" then it can be made to shut down after the
              main run
              > ... but it's quite a tricky balance to achieve and, as you say, you
              have to
              > be running at a snail's pace.
              >
              > All the best,
              > Mike N

              Indeed so, for quality you need to take your time (unfortunately).
              You can, as a matter of fact, achieve shutdown inbetween heads and
              main run as well, but for that you'd better have 3-4 days to process
              25 liters mash (spirall still with column as an example). Still
              strugling to find a perfect balance of time versus quality versus
              trouble. Making whiskey on the other hand ... :)

              Greetz, Riku
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