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Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

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  • Henry Stamp
    can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :) ... -- --henry
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 1 10:21 AM
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      can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :)


      Mike Nixon wrote:

      >Both LM and VM have their
      >strengths and weaknesses. To keep life simple, I would go for either method
      >for vodka production, but LM for flavored spirits.
      >
      >Trust that was confusing enough :-))
      >
      >All the best,
      >Mike N
      >
      >


      --
      --henry
    • Mike Nixon
      Henry Stamp wrote: Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column... can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :) =============== Hi
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 1 12:33 PM
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        Henry Stamp wrote:
        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

        can you explain what LM and VM mean to this noobie? :)
        ===============
        Hi Henry,
        LM = Liquid Management
        VM = Vapor Management
        With LM you manage the reflux ratio by controlling how much of the liquid
        condensed by the top condenser is diverted from returning to the column by
        withdrawing it as product, and with VM you manage the reflux ratio by
        withdrawing some of the vapor from the column before it reaches the top
        condenser, then condensing that as product.

        You will no doubt also see CM mentioned occasionally. This stands for
        Cooling Management, and means different things to different folks. With
        some it means putting cooling coils through the middle of the column in an
        attempt to control what happens inside. This is to be avoided at all costs,
        for it only serves to upset the separation process going on inside the
        packing, so making the still far less efficient. I would rename what they
        try to do as "Cooling Meddling"! With others (who do know what they are
        doing) it means managing the flow of cooling water through the top condenser
        in order to control how much vapor gets past it, and hence the reflux ratio.
        The vapor that makes it past that top condenser is collected and liquified
        in a side condenser as the product, just like you do with VM. This is
        sometimes quite a good technique to use, and has been around for a long
        time. However, it does not have the feature that VM offers of automatically
        stopping production towards the end of the main run, when the amount of
        ethanol in the vapor starts to reduce and the tails start to rise in the
        column. Nevertheless, that can be useful when making flavored spirits, for
        then you do want to be able to select parts of the heads and the tails.

        Hope all that makes sense :-))

        All the best,
        Mike N
      • Henry Stamp
        yes, it really helped clear up some stuff. im not sure i ll build a reflux column any time soon, but its still fascinating to learn about :) ... -- --henry
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 1 12:47 PM
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          yes, it really helped clear up some stuff. im not sure i'll build a
          reflux column any time soon, but its still fascinating to learn about :)


          Mike Nixon wrote:

          >Hope all that makes sense :-))
          >
          >All the best,
          >Mike N
          >
          >


          --
          --henry
        • abbababbaccc
          Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor increases the cooling
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 1 2:00 PM
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            Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
            properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
            increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This of
            course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
            suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.

            Greetz, Riku

            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
            > time. However, it does not have the feature that VM offers of
            automatically
            > stopping production towards the end of the main run, when the
            amount of
            > ethanol in the vapor starts to reduce and the tails start to rise
            in the
            > column. Nevertheless, that can be useful when making flavored
            spirits, for
            > then you do want to be able to select parts of the heads and the
            tails.
            >
            > Hope all that makes sense :-))
            >
            > All the best,
            > Mike N
          • Mike Nixon
            abbababbaccc wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column... Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted properly.
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 1 3:02 PM
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              abbababbaccc wrote:
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...

              Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
              properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
              increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This of
              course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
              suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.
              ================
              Tarue Riku ... but I was trying to be as general as possible. As you say,
              with careful "tweaking" then it can be made to shut down after the main run
              ... but it's quite a tricky balance to achieve and, as you say, you have to
              be running at a snail's pace.

              All the best,
              Mike N
            • abbababbaccc
              ... of ... you say, ... main run ... have to ... Indeed so, for quality you need to take your time (unfortunately). You can, as a matter of fact, achieve
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 1 3:22 PM
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                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                > abbababbaccc wrote:
                > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: How much left in Column...
                >
                > Sorry to interrupt Mike, but CM has automated shutdown if adjusted
                > properly. Assuming constant cooling when the boiling point of vapor
                > increases the cooling efficiency increases and output ceases. This
                of
                > course requires that the output is pretty slow to start with. Best
                > suited for air cooling, low wattage and power controller.
                > ================
                > Tarue Riku ... but I was trying to be as general as possible. As
                you say,
                > with careful "tweaking" then it can be made to shut down after the
                main run
                > ... but it's quite a tricky balance to achieve and, as you say, you
                have to
                > be running at a snail's pace.
                >
                > All the best,
                > Mike N

                Indeed so, for quality you need to take your time (unfortunately).
                You can, as a matter of fact, achieve shutdown inbetween heads and
                main run as well, but for that you'd better have 3-4 days to process
                25 liters mash (spirall still with column as an example). Still
                strugling to find a perfect balance of time versus quality versus
                trouble. Making whiskey on the other hand ... :)

                Greetz, Riku
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