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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Help!! What am I doing wrong

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  • Ian Macsween
    Should have been lots of headspace - no problem there! Can you tell me a little about your still - mine is very simple and I ve had no problems. But one of
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 5, 2001
      Should have been lots of headspace - no problem there! Can you tell me a
      little about your still - mine is very simple and I've had no problems. But
      one of the first things I did was test it out by just distilling water -
      takes longer than moonshine - but we don't mind wasting it. P.s. if you got
      92% or so thats good - when I run 30 litres I get almost a full gallon - 4
      litres -of approx 88% - get back to me - hope others join in - but for the
      moment try cooking off a batch of water.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <hal031235@...>
      To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 1:43 PM
      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Help!! What am I doing wrong


      > Hi Ian
      > thanks for the reply, I filled 25litres in a 50litre boiler, I don't
      > know was that too much? I had about 20cm head space to the top of the
      > still entrance.
      >
      > I haven't had a succesful run as yet, this was the first attempt at
      > full distillation.
      >
      > PS. I had a glass thermometer and a digital one, so the temps were
      > correct
      >
      > regards
      > Ron
      > --- In new_distillers@y..., Ian Macsween <ianelamacsween@s...> wrote:
      > > I'll give your problem some thought and get back to you later. The
      > first
      > > thing that occurred to me was - did you leave enough "head space".
      > The only
      > > time that I had a problem of vapour escaping was when I filled the
      > boiler
      > > too full.
      > > Your temperatures sound a little strange - I only have one
      > thermometer -
      > > inserted in the still head cover. I start the water running at 65c
      > and
      > > start to get distillate at about 78c. My still will boil for at
      > least 5
      > > more hours before the temp. rises to the cut off point. I do not
      > know if
      > > you have too many scrubbers - have you had any previous successful
      > runs
      > > using the same set-up? from Ian
      > >
      > > Original Message -----
      > > From: <hal031235@h...>
      > > To: <new_distillers@y...>
      > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 6:49 AM
      > > Subject: [new_distillers] Help!! What am I doing wrong
      > >
      > >
      > > > Hi
      > > >
      > > > can someone help please? As described in my previous posts, I have
      > > > been having problems sealing my still. I figured that I had them
      > > > finally cracked when I stripped 50litres of distilled sugar wash
      > and
      > > > there was only a little vapour escape.
      > > >
      > > > So today I set the still up to have my first go at distilling
      > about
      > > > 25 litres of 30% stripped beer. It took about 50 minutes with my
      > 3Kw
      > > > heater to get up to a boil, I had set the reflux condensor to
      > about
      > > > 500ml / min as per Tony's recent post on setup and waited for the
      > > > temperature to rise, but it would not go above 25c at the top of
      > the
      > > > still even though I could hear a very strong boiling noise in the
      > > > boiler and a gurgling sound in the still itself.
      > > >
      > > > So I switched off the boiler in case liquid was being pushed up
      > the
      > > > condensor tube (42mm). I then started up again, still no
      > temperature
      > > > increase at the top (20c) with 500ml/min through the reflux
      > > > condensor, so I reduced the water flow and the temperature
      > started to
      > > > rise (and so did the water temperature out of the condensor, which
      > > > was hot, but not so hot that I could not put my finger in it) and
      > the
      > > > temperature started to rise to about 49c. Whilst I was watching
      > the
      > > > temperature increase I hadn't noticed liquid pouring out of the
      > > > output tube, I propped a measure under it and in about 2 minutes
      > had
      > > > 250ml of distillate, the temperature was moving around 49ish C. I
      > > > tried to increase the water flow in the reflux condensor and
      > turned
      > > > it up to full ( I estimate that would be 3-4litres per minute, but
      > > > could n't stop liquid being condensed, so again I switched the
      > boiler
      > > > off. Whilst all this was going on, I am still having some vapour
      > > > escaping frm the boiler lid. Have I too many ss scrubbers (17)in
      > the
      > > > 1.2m tube, is this cuaing too much pressur eto build up in the
      > still?
      > > >
      > > > I checked the liquid that I had collected - it is 92% alcohol,
      > > > doesn't smell of anything (certainly not acetone) and a licked
      > finger
      > > > is tasteless except of alcohol (more the sensation on the tongue
      > than
      > > > the taste)
      > > >
      > > > Please help, what have I done wrong??
      > > >
      > > > regards
      > > > Ron
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Tony & Elle Ackland
      Ron,I ve had another look at your photos (in the photos section at www.yahoogroups.com) , and your description in posting #1130, and I m confused.Could
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 5, 2001
        Ron,

        I've had another look at your photos (in the photos section at
        www.yahoogroups.com) , and your description in posting #1130, and I'm
        confused.

        Could you please explain your still setup & how you're using it ? It
        appears to be a hybrid of a couple of designs

        As I seem to understand it ...
        You have a boiler, with a 1.2m x 42mm diam column vertically off it.
        Above that, you have a further 70cm which has a reflux condensor in it
        To the side is a second condensor & offtake ?
        Whats the other little leg on the far right ?

        But I cant work out where the cooling water flows go, or the vapour path -
        can you please describe them in more detail.

        Do you intend for most of the vapour to go up to the first reflux condensor
        in the top 70cm, and get condensed to drip back down into the column.
        You'll be controlling the amount of water to this coil, to ensure that not
        all the vapour gets condensed, but that some (say 1 in 5) will get past, to
        go over the top, and get condensed in the second condensor & kept ? Sorta
        like that drawn in option (2) of
        http:\\homedistiller.org\graphics\condensors.gif ??

        You've confused me by calling the second condensor a Nixon-Stone one.
        Thats because the NS operates slightly differently, by condensing all the
        vapour in one location, then managing the proportions of liquid that get
        kept & refluxed (by throttling the offtake, and overflowing the remainder).
        (See the photos in http:\\homedistiller.org\photos-ns.htm , or option (3)
        of the first diagram)

        Whereabouts is your thermometer mounted ? Above the first condensor, on
        the way to the second one ?

        The 500mL/min I talk about is with the NS setup - where I'm trying to
        condense all the vapour. If you put that much through just your primary
        reflux coil, then you're likely to get none of it passing over to the
        second one.

        If you can describe the vapour paths & cooling water route I might get a
        better idea of whats going on.
        Maybe draw a wee diagram ??

        Tony
      • Bposs112@aol.com
        my personal opion is that you have to many scrubbs. and marbles if you use them ive been there and done that. i have cut mine back to almost nothing. and it
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 6, 2001
          my personal opion  is that you have to many scrubbs. and marbles if you use them ive been there and done that. i have cut mine back to almost nothing. and it has made things much easier.. good luck
        • hal031235@hotmail.com
          Thanks I ll give it a go. I ve been thinking about it and t make sense that if I have surging of the liquid distillate due to the large numbers of scrubbers as
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 6, 2001
            Thanks I'll give it a go.

            I've been thinking about it and t make sense that if I have surging
            of the liquid distillate due to the large numbers of scrubbers as
            well as increasing the pressure in the boiler causing the leakage I
            am getting.

            Tomorrow I will reduce it from 17 to 14 and see what happens

            thanks for the advice

            Ron
            --- In new_distillers@y..., Bposs112@a... wrote:
            > my personal opion is that you have to many scrubbs. and marbles if
            you use
            > them ive been there and done that. i have cut mine back to almost
            nothing.
            > and it has made things much easier.. good luck
          • hal031235@hotmail.com
            Thanks a lot - it works!! I tried 14 then 11 scrubbers and it works great, no leaks (less pressure) and 94% alcohol as I speak pouring forth! Didn t get much
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 7, 2001
              Thanks a lot - it works!!

              I tried 14 then 11 scrubbers and it works great, no leaks (less
              pressure) and 94% alcohol as I speak pouring forth!

              Didn't get much in the way of heads, but since this is my 5th attempt
              I imagine lots of things have boiled off in previous attempts. The
              valve I am using for controlling water flow is not sensitive enought
              to control the temperature, kind of off / on. I will look for a 15mm
              needle valve to replace it

              thanks Bposs

              regards
              Ron

              --- In new_distillers@y..., hal031235@h... wrote:
              > Thanks I'll give it a go.
              >
              > I've been thinking about it and t make sense that if I have surging
              > of the liquid distillate due to the large numbers of scrubbers as
              > well as increasing the pressure in the boiler causing the leakage I
              > am getting.
              >
              > Tomorrow I will reduce it from 17 to 14 and see what happens
              >
              > thanks for the advice
              >
              > Ron
              > --- In new_distillers@y..., Bposs112@a... wrote:
              > > my personal opion is that you have to many scrubbs. and marbles
              if
              > you use
              > > them ive been there and done that. i have cut mine back to almost
              > nothing.
              > > and it has made things much easier.. good luck
            • Bposs112@aol.com
              YOUR WELCOME
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 7, 2001
                YOUR WELCOME
              • hal031235@hotmail.com
                Hi Tony ... I m confused. Could you please explain your still setup & how you re using it ? It appears to be a hybrid of a couple of designs Yes, it is a
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 14, 2001
                  Hi Tony

                  Here is some answers:

                  --- In new_distillers@y..., Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@c...>
                  wrote:
                  > Ron,
                  >
                  > I've had another look at your photos (in the photos section at
                  > www.yahoogroups.com) , and your description in posting #1130, and
                  I'm confused. Could you please explain your still setup & how you're
                  using it ? It appears to be a hybrid of a couple of designs

                  Yes, it is a hybrid of some of the designs from your web site, a
                  combination of a coiled reflux design with a secondary NS condenser.

                  > As I seem to understand it ...
                  > You have a boiler, with a 1.2m x 42mm diam column vertically off it.
                  > Above that, you have a further 70cm which has a reflux condenser in
                  it to the side is a second condenser & offtake ?

                  Yes, the first is a coil in the 70cm section, the second condenser is
                  the NS design from your site, except it is "upside down" with a
                  couple of extra pieces to allow the distillate flow to be contained.

                  > Whats the other little leg on the far right ?

                  The other little leg is the vapour outlet, I made it large in
                  diameter to there it would match the vapour path all the way through
                  the still, ie not be a constraint, also, so that if I added a valve
                  on the 8mm outflow, I could measure the distillate volume by shutting
                  the valve and then releasing the distillate after measurement.

                  > But I can't work out where the cooling water flows go, or the
                  vapour path - can you please describe them in more detail.

                  The flow is in through the top valves and out throught the bottom.
                  Right to the reflux coil, left to the NS condensor. Taking advice
                  from your site you said cool water should enter at the point
                  furtherest away from the vapour flow, which it does for the coil
                  condensor. Since the NS condensor is "upside-down" although the water
                  enters at the top, it actually comes in contact with vapour flow at
                  the "bottom" last, i.e its coldest at the bottom, since it passes
                  down a tube to the base and then back up where the wall of the
                  cooling water. But since its sole purpose is to condense the vapour
                  that I wish to "drink" it really doesn't matter!

                  > Do you intend for most of the vapour to go up to the first reflux
                  condensor in the top 70cm, and get condensed to drip back down into
                  the column.

                  Exactly.

                  > You'll be controlling the amount of water to this coil, to ensure
                  that not all the vapour gets condensed, but that some (say 1 in 5)
                  will get past, to go over the top, and get condensed in the second
                  condensor & kept ? Sorta like that drawn in option (2) of
                  http:\\homedistiller.org\graphics\condensors.gif ??

                  Exactly again, that's where I got the idea from. The only change I
                  would make is that the valve that controls the water flow to the
                  reflux condensor isn't "fine" enough in its control. I need a needle
                  valve, but haven't found a 15mm valve suitable as yet, so there was a
                  bit of mcuking about to get the reflux right.


                  > You've confused me by calling the second condensor a Nixon-Stone
                  one. Thats because the NS operates slightly differently, by
                  condensing all the vapour in one location, then managing the
                  proportions of liquid that get kept & refluxed (by throttling the
                  offtake, and overflowing the remainder).

                  (See the photos in http:\\homedistiller.org\photos-ns.htm , or option
                  (3) of the first diagram)

                  I meant that it was an NS design condensor, that is jsy the condensor
                  not the reflux mechanism, again from your site. I decided against
                  managing the proportion of liquid back because I was concerned
                  by "flooding" the condensors ability to condense the alcohol vapour
                  and vapour escaping. Having now actually run the still it probably is
                  over engineered and I could have done it that way.

                  > Whereabouts is your thermometer mounted ? Above the first
                  condensor, on the way to the second one ?
                  >
                  Yes, I have a digital thermometer probe at the top of the first
                  column.

                  > The 500mL/min I talk about is with the NS setup - where I'm trying
                  to condense all the vapour. If you put that much through just your
                  primary reflux coil, then you're likely to get none of it passing
                  over to the second one.

                  Yes, you're right. To get total reflux 500ml/min was more than enough
                  when I got the SS packing density right to stop surging through the
                  column. When I was refluxing enough to get 94%, it was a lot less, I
                  didn't measure it, but it was probably 200ml or less.
                  >
                  > If you can describe the vapour paths & cooling water route I might
                  get a better idea of whats going on. Maybe draw a wee diagram ??

                  Happy to draw one out, I will post it in a couple of days.

                  thanks for all your help, other are selling lesser designs and ideas
                  all over the web that you are generously giving away.

                  I would say the the design produced 7 litres of 94%+ ethanol in
                  3hours flawlessly and a monkey could run it if I had a needle valve
                  on the water flow control (one probably was running it, just no one
                  has broken me the bad news as yet!!)


                  regards
                  Ron
                • hal031235@hotmail.com
                  Hi Tony I have now uploaded a design drawing in the same section as the photos of my still, hope it makes more sense now. What do you think? regards Ron ...
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 15, 2001
                    Hi Tony
                    I have now uploaded a design drawing in the same section as the
                    photos of my still, hope it makes more sense now.

                    What do you think?
                    regards
                    Ron
                    --- In new_distillers@y..., Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@c...>
                    wrote:
                    > Ron,
                    >
                    > I've had another look at your photos (in the photos section at
                    > www.yahoogroups.com) , and your description in posting #1130, and
                    I'm
                    > confused.
                    >
                    > Could you please explain your still setup & how you're using it ?
                    It
                    > appears to be a hybrid of a couple of designs
                    >
                    > As I seem to understand it ...
                    > You have a boiler, with a 1.2m x 42mm diam column vertically off it.
                    > Above that, you have a further 70cm which has a reflux condensor in
                    it
                    > To the side is a second condensor & offtake ?
                    > Whats the other little leg on the far right ?
                    >
                    > But I cant work out where the cooling water flows go, or the vapour
                    path -
                    > can you please describe them in more detail.
                    >
                    > Do you intend for most of the vapour to go up to the first reflux
                    condensor
                    > in the top 70cm, and get condensed to drip back down into the
                    column.
                    > You'll be controlling the amount of water to this coil, to ensure
                    that not
                    > all the vapour gets condensed, but that some (say 1 in 5) will get
                    past, to
                    > go over the top, and get condensed in the second condensor &
                    kept ? Sorta
                    > like that drawn in option (2) of
                    > http:\\homedistiller.org\graphics\condensors.gif ??
                    >
                    > You've confused me by calling the second condensor a Nixon-Stone
                    one.
                    > Thats because the NS operates slightly differently, by condensing
                    all the
                    > vapour in one location, then managing the proportions of liquid
                    that get
                    > kept & refluxed (by throttling the offtake, and overflowing the
                    remainder).
                    > (See the photos in http:\\homedistiller.org\photos-ns.htm , or
                    option (3)
                    > of the first diagram)
                    >
                    > Whereabouts is your thermometer mounted ? Above the first
                    condensor, on
                    > the way to the second one ?
                    >
                    > The 500mL/min I talk about is with the NS setup - where I'm trying
                    to
                    > condense all the vapour. If you put that much through just your
                    primary
                    > reflux coil, then you're likely to get none of it passing over to
                    the
                    > second one.
                    >
                    > If you can describe the vapour paths & cooling water route I might
                    get a
                    > better idea of whats going on.
                    > Maybe draw a wee diagram ??
                    >
                    > Tony
                  • Leslie Rogers
                    ... wrote: Ron, I ve had another look at your photos (in the photos section at
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 15, 2001
                      --- Tony & Elle Ackland
                      <Tony.Ackland@...> wrote:
                      <HR>
                      <html><body>
                      <tt>
                      Ron,<BR>
                      <BR>
                      I've had another look at your photos (in the photos
                      section at <BR>
                      www.yahoogroups.com) , and your description in posting
                      #1130, and I'm <BR>
                      confused.<BR>
                      <BR>
                      Could you please explain your still setup & how
                      you're using it ?  It <BR>
                      appears to be a hybrid of a couple of designs<BR>
                      <BR>
                      As I seem to understand it ...<BR>
                      You have a boiler, with a 1.2m x 42mm diam column
                      vertically off it.<BR>
                      Above that, you have a further 70cm which has a reflux
                      condensor in it<BR>
                      To the side is a second condensor & offtake ?<BR>
                      Whats the other little leg on the far right ?<BR>
                      <BR>
                      But I cant work out where the cooling water flows go,
                      or the vapour path - <BR>
                      can you please describe them in more detail.<BR>
                      <BR>
                      Do you intend for most of the vapour to go up to the
                      first reflux condensor <BR>
                      in the top 70cm, and get condensed to drip back down
                      into the column. <BR>
                      You'll be controlling the amount of water to this
                      coil, to ensure that not <BR>
                      all the vapour gets condensed, but that some (say 1 in
                      5) will get past, to <BR>
                      go over the top, and get condensed in the second
                      condensor & kept ?  Sorta <BR>
                      like that drawn in option (2) of <BR>
                      http:\\homedistiller.org\graphics\condensors.gif 
                      ??<BR>
                      <BR>
                      You've confused me by calling the second condensor a
                      Nixon-Stone one. <BR>
                      Thats because the NS operates slightly differently,
                      by condensing all the <BR>
                      vapour in one location, then managing the proportions
                      of liquid that get <BR>
                      kept & refluxed (by throttling the offtake, and
                      overflowing the remainder). <BR>
                      (See the photos in
                      http:\\homedistiller.org\photos-ns.htm , or option (3)
                      <BR>
                      of the first diagram)<BR>
                      <BR>
                      Whereabouts is your thermometer mounted ?  Above
                      the first condensor, on <BR>
                      the way to the second one ?<BR>
                      <BR>
                      The 500mL/min I talk about is with the NS setup -
                      where I'm trying to <BR>
                      condense all the vapour.  If you put that much
                      through just your primary <BR>
                      reflux coil, then you're likely to get none of it
                      passing over to the <BR>
                      second one.<BR>
                      <BR>
                      If you can describe the vapour paths & cooling
                      water route I might get a <BR>
                      better idea of whats going on.<BR>
                      Maybe draw a wee diagram ??<BR>
                      <BR>
                      Tony<BR>
                      <BR>
                      </tt>

                      <br>

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                    • Tony & Elle Ackland
                      Ron, ... Thanks - thats cleared it up for me. As pointed out earlier, its going to come down to carefully controlling the amount of reflux, via the flowrate of
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 16, 2001
                        Ron,

                        > I have now uploaded a design drawing in the same section as the
                        > photos of my still, hope it makes more sense now.
                        > What do you think?

                        Thanks - thats cleared it up for me.

                        As pointed out earlier, its going to come down to carefully controlling the
                        amount of reflux, via the flowrate of cooling water there (and the
                        temperature of that water), but provided you keep an eye on the collection
                        rate, you should have a good feel for how much is being returned.

                        You're now having sucess with less/looser packing ?

                        Tony
                      • hal031235@hotmail.com
                        H Tony I ve come to the conclusion that not all (pot) scrubbers are created equal and I must have been using larger ones? regards Ron ... controlling the ...
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 16, 2001
                          H Tony

                          I've come to the conclusion that not all (pot) scrubbers are created
                          equal and I must have been using larger ones?

                          regards
                          Ron

                          --- In new_distillers@y..., Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@c...>
                          wrote:
                          > Ron,
                          >
                          > > I have now uploaded a design drawing in the same section as the
                          > > photos of my still, hope it makes more sense now.
                          > > What do you think?
                          >
                          > Thanks - thats cleared it up for me.
                          >
                          > As pointed out earlier, its going to come down to carefully
                          controlling the
                          > amount of reflux, via the flowrate of cooling water there (and the
                          > temperature of that water), but provided you keep an eye on the
                          collection
                          > rate, you should have a good feel for how much is being returned.
                          >
                          > You're now having sucess with less/looser packing ?
                          >
                          > Tony
                        • D. C.
                          Hi all: A couple days ago Tony had made a comment about a new book. It can be found at:
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 16, 2001
                            Hi all:

                            A couple days ago Tony had made a comment about a new book. It can be found
                            at:

                            http://www.amphora-society.com/The_Compleat_Distiller/the_compleat_distiller
                            .html

                            I'm writing to tell you that I purchased the book, and it is one of the most
                            complete distilling books that I have come across so far. Just about
                            everything under the sun about distilling is in this book. I highly
                            recommend purchasing this book. If you only are able to buy one book, this
                            should be it.

                            I even had some issues (my problem, not theirs) buying the book, and Mike
                            Nixon was kind enough to go out of his way to correct the problem (again, it
                            was my problem, not theirs) to make sure that I was happy. So, customer
                            service is the best that I have seen in a long time.

                            I just thought that I would pass along my thoughts about the book incase
                            anyone was thinking about buying it.

                            Your Brother in Magick,
                            David M. Cunningham
                            email@...

                            --------------------------------------------
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