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RE: [new_distillers] Getting the best from your wash ?

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  • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
    Fizz, ... I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
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      Fizz,

      > Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?
      >
      I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during
      fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
      air ingress). This is backed up by stuff in the Alcohol Textbook about the
      yeast settling out and not being available. The main thing to avoid would
      be not to stirr it too vigorously. Just something nice and gentle to get it
      all circulating up off the bottom. I usually give mine a swirl (lid kept
      on) every time i walk past it.

      > Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?
      >

      Some of the new enzymes that work with the grains do so well because they
      slowly meter out the glucose being released over say 3-4 days, rather than
      stressing the yeast with it all from day one. You can do the same with your
      sugar. Rather than toss say all 5kg in at the start, begin with say 2kg,
      then add 1kg a day every day after that. You'll find then often that a 5kg
      yeast can actually handle 6-7 kg+, provided its slowly fed it.

      Tony
    • slacker75@hotmail.com
      Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat generated enough? I haven t gotten around to fermenting anything yet, and was wondering if
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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        Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
        generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
        yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
        insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
        ambient temp of about 22C?

        -Tone
      • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
        Hi Tone, I ve been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks anow and it s still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a heater blanket
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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          Hi Tone,

          I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
          anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
          heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
          liquids ???????? Nah !

          Fizz
        • Tony & Elle Ackland
          Tone, ... Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn t drop too much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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            Tone,

            > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
            > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
            > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
            > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
            > ambient temp of about 22C?

            Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn't drop too
            much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
            http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp

            Tony
          • klcampbell
            Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 13, 2001
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              Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and
              controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
              fermentation lock sticking out the top and a digital thermometer in the top
              and adjust the temp.to what ever you need.Some of the non turbo distillers
              yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg. wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32
              degrees"C".Mate it beats the hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less
              volitiles,Regards,Ken.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <fizzynick@...>
              To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2001 9:57
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


              > Hi Tone,
              >
              > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
              > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
              > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
              > liquids ???????? Nah !
              >
              > Fizz
              >
              >
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              > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
            • darren korbo
              Hi Fizz In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built a box out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                Hi Fizz
                In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                a box
                out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                wired them
                together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                20% alc
                in 4 days.

                fizzynick@... wrote:

                > Hi Tone,
                >
                > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                > liquids ???????? Nah !
                >
                > Fizz
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                Thanks for all those really great tips. So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature that I should make sure I keep below ?
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                  Thanks for all those really great tips.

                  So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                  that I should make sure I keep below ?
                • Tony & Elle Ackland
                  ... Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F) See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details Tony
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                    > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                    > that I should make sure I keep below ?

                    Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                    See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details

                    Tony
                  • al lewis
                    Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                      Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al

                      >From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
                      >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: 'New Distillers newsgroup' <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?
                      >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:36:37 +1300
                      >
                      > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                      > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                      >
                      >Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                      >See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                      >
                      >Tony


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                    • klcampbell
                      Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                        Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones
                        that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                        usually takes 4-5 days to complete,O K,they use filtration before
                        distillation but we can learn a lot regarding max. temps. that you can work
                        with.
                        My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable is one of the suppliers of
                        good non turbo style distillers yeasts and I will endeavour to get names and
                        numbers to post ASAP.Regards,Ken.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Tony & Elle Ackland" <Tony.Ackland@...>
                        To: "'New Distillers newsgroup'" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, 15 October 2001 14:36
                        Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                        > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                        > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                        >
                        > Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                        > See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                        >
                        > Tony
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                        Ken, The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the alcohol content, and the sugar concentration. From Chapt 2 of The Alcohol
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                          Ken,

                          The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the
                          alcohol content, and the sugar concentration.

                          From Chapt 2 of "The Alcohol Textbook" ..
                          "The optimum
                          temperature of fermentation when fermenting
                          with yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) is 32 o C
                          and the optimum temperature of reproduction
                          for the yeast is 28 o C. It can also be seen (in Figure
                          2) that without adequate cooling, a fermenter
                          set at 32 o C would inevitably increase in
                          temperature. Every degree in temperature above
                          32 o C will have a tendency to depress fermen-
                          tation, as the yeast cannot handle these higher
                          temperatures. Furthermore, the increase in
                          temperature favors the growth of lactobacilli, the
                          microorganism that competes with yeast for
                          glucose."

                          I'd suggest that this advice is applicable mostly for the short fermentation
                          times that you refer to when fermenting the typical washes targetting around
                          10-12% alcohol.

                          But in Chapter 5 ...
                          ".. It was also seen that the time required
                          to complete fermentation decreased with
                          increases in temperature from 17-33°C. The
                          optimum temperature for fermentation in VHG
                          mashes was found to be 27°C (Wang et al.,
                          1999a; Jones and Ingledew, 1994b). This is
                          significantly below the temperatures used in
                          industry at sugar levels of approximately 23° Brix,
                          but higher than the 20°C used in much of our
                          earlier research...."

                          The VHG refers to Very High Gravity washes - eg the typical sugar water ones
                          that we make, using 0.25 to 0.35 g/L

                          This ties in with the comments from my page (I think they were based from
                          stuff in the "Spirits Unlimited book) ...

                          " Yeast is a living organism, and will die if too stressed. Both alcohol and
                          temperature stress it. With no alcohol around, it won't die until about 40
                          °C. At 14% alcohol, it will die at 33 °C, and at 25 °C if in 20% alcohol. So
                          keep it below 25 °C at ALL times. Lower temperatures will also result in
                          less volitiles. When the temperature has been kept below 30 °C the
                          production of fusel oils is minimal, and is extremely small if kept below a
                          maximum of 25 °C. This is where you get into a bit of a trade-off; if you
                          keep it too cool, it will take heaps longer, with greater time for the risk
                          of infection etc to set in. At 25 °C, it will take 3 days to ferment 0.24
                          kg/L sugar, but at 15 °C it will take nearly 2 weeks."

                          So in simple summary - yeah hotter is ok (27-30C), provided that you're
                          targetting a lower % alcohol. But if you're going to stress the yeast with
                          high sugar content initially, and then high alcohol content later on, keep
                          it cool (25C).

                          The other reason for playing slightly on the cooler side, is incase you get
                          too much temperature rise due to the heat given off during fermentation
                          (sometimes up to 5C with the vigorous yeasts) Many of us heat the wash, but
                          would have trouble cooling it in a controlled manner.

                          Tony
                        • J.zitek
                          hi fizz if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them- you cold try a heat tape.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 16, 2001
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                            hi fizz
                            if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them-
                            you cold try a heat tape. That gives you about 8 watts of heat per foot of tape, you can get them in any lenth.        
                            Keep warm,
                            Jay                                                                                
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:15 AM
                            Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?

                            Hi Fizz
                            In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                            a box
                            out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                            wired them
                            together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                            20% alc
                            in 4 days.

                            fizzynick@... wrote:

                            > Hi Tone,
                            >
                            > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                            > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                            > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                            > liquids ???????? Nah !
                            >
                            > Fizz
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          • klcampbell
                            Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
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                              Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting
                              my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                              "D.C.L.Yeast and it is branded "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".

                              My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable also supplies a nutrient
                              package which helps it work.
                              Probably the usual stuff,I'm a toolmaker not a chemist but it seems to work
                              .I believe that D.C.L. have a web site in England but I have never had a
                              look,hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Tim Walters" <trwalters@...>
                              To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2001 1:21
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                              > Hi Ken,
                              >
                              > Ken wrote:
                              >
                              > > Some of the non turbo distillers yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg.
                              > > wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32 degrees"C". Mate it beats the
                              > > hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less volatiles.
                              >
                              > I've been brewing beer for about 12 years, so I know a little about
                              > our little friends. Can you give me some info on why those distiller's
                              > yeasties beat turbos? Also, can you give me a company name and
                              > yeast type you've tried?
                              >
                              > TIA,
                              > T
                              >
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                            • hal031235@hotmail.com
                              There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn t find the product listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product details I will post their
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 28, 2001
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                                There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                details

                                I will post their reply

                                regards
                                Ron

                                --- In new_distillers@y..., Tim Walters <trwalters@m...> wrote:
                                > Ken wrote:
                                >
                                > the yeast that I have been using is from D.C.L.Yeast and it is
                                branded
                                > "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".
                              • Matt
                                ... It s a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find lying around but the Brewbelt is a nice gizmo..it s a heating strap that plugs
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 29, 2001
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                                  On Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 01:50:35PM -0000, slacker75@... wrote:
                                  > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
                                  > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
                                  > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
                                  > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
                                  > ambient temp of about 22C?

                                  It's a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find
                                  lying around but the "Brewbelt" is a nice gizmo..it's a heating strap that
                                  plugs into an AC wall outlet. You wrap it around your fermentation vessel
                                  and it keeps it at about 75F... this unit is also made for the UK/Euro
                                  market.


                                  --
                                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Matthew @ psibercom
                                  psibercom.org: doing pretty much nothing for the net since 1994!
                                • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                                  Hi Ron, Try this one http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html Fizz
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
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                                    Hi Ron,

                                    Try this one
                                    http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html

                                    Fizz


                                    --- In new_distillers@y..., hal031235@h... wrote:
                                    > There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                    > listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                    > details
                                    >
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