Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [new_distillers] Getting the best from your wash ?

Expand Messages
  • Brian Bashford
    My rule has always been let sleeping dogs lie . If you keep taking the lid off to look at it / agitate it , you risk introducing all sorts of bugs and wild
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      My rule has always been "let sleeping dogs lie". If you keep taking the lid off to look at it / agitate it , you risk introducing all sorts of bugs and wild yeasts . Wait until the bubbles in the air lock (if you're using one) have subsided to about one every 5 minutes or less. Then double check with a hydrometer that all the sugar has disappeared. I've had fermentations that have lasted 6 months or more, admittedly not those intended  for distilling.
       
            Brian B.

      I have a question regarding how to take care of your wash.

      I have made up a batch with 21.5 litres water. 6 kilos of inverted
      sugar and malic acid (boiled for 20 mins, cooled then chucked in the
      bucket) and applied an active batch of CWE yeast with 60g of yeast
      nutrient.

      The ferment has been going for over a week now (not using turbo yeast
      so I don't expect it to be over too soon) and I am curious how people
      treat their wash whilst it ferments.

      Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?

      Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?

      Do you just let it run until it has stopped bubbling.


    • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
      Fizz, ... I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Fizz,

        > Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?
        >
        I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during
        fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
        air ingress). This is backed up by stuff in the Alcohol Textbook about the
        yeast settling out and not being available. The main thing to avoid would
        be not to stirr it too vigorously. Just something nice and gentle to get it
        all circulating up off the bottom. I usually give mine a swirl (lid kept
        on) every time i walk past it.

        > Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?
        >

        Some of the new enzymes that work with the grains do so well because they
        slowly meter out the glucose being released over say 3-4 days, rather than
        stressing the yeast with it all from day one. You can do the same with your
        sugar. Rather than toss say all 5kg in at the start, begin with say 2kg,
        then add 1kg a day every day after that. You'll find then often that a 5kg
        yeast can actually handle 6-7 kg+, provided its slowly fed it.

        Tony
      • slacker75@hotmail.com
        Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat generated enough? I haven t gotten around to fermenting anything yet, and was wondering if
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
          generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
          yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
          insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
          ambient temp of about 22C?

          -Tone
        • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
          Hi Tone, I ve been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks anow and it s still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a heater blanket
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Tone,

            I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
            anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
            heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
            liquids ???????? Nah !

            Fizz
          • Tony & Elle Ackland
            Tone, ... Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn t drop too much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Tone,

              > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
              > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
              > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
              > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
              > ambient temp of about 22C?

              Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn't drop too
              much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
              http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp

              Tony
            • klcampbell
              Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 13, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and
                controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
                fermentation lock sticking out the top and a digital thermometer in the top
                and adjust the temp.to what ever you need.Some of the non turbo distillers
                yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg. wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32
                degrees"C".Mate it beats the hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less
                volitiles,Regards,Ken.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <fizzynick@...>
                To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2001 9:57
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                > Hi Tone,
                >
                > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                > liquids ???????? Nah !
                >
                > Fizz
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • darren korbo
                Hi Fizz In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built a box out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Fizz
                  In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                  a box
                  out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                  wired them
                  together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                  20% alc
                  in 4 days.

                  fizzynick@... wrote:

                  > Hi Tone,
                  >
                  > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                  > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                  > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                  > liquids ???????? Nah !
                  >
                  > Fizz
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                  Thanks for all those really great tips. So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature that I should make sure I keep below ?
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for all those really great tips.

                    So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                    that I should make sure I keep below ?
                  • Tony & Elle Ackland
                    ... Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F) See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details Tony
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                      > that I should make sure I keep below ?

                      Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                      See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details

                      Tony
                    • al lewis
                      Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al

                        >From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
                        >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: 'New Distillers newsgroup' <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?
                        >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:36:37 +1300
                        >
                        > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                        > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                        >
                        >Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                        >See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                        >
                        >Tony


                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
                      • klcampbell
                        Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones
                          that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                          usually takes 4-5 days to complete,O K,they use filtration before
                          distillation but we can learn a lot regarding max. temps. that you can work
                          with.
                          My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable is one of the suppliers of
                          good non turbo style distillers yeasts and I will endeavour to get names and
                          numbers to post ASAP.Regards,Ken.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Tony & Elle Ackland" <Tony.Ackland@...>
                          To: "'New Distillers newsgroup'" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, 15 October 2001 14:36
                          Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                          > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                          > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                          >
                          > Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                          > See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                          >
                          > Tony
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                          Ken, The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the alcohol content, and the sugar concentration. From Chapt 2 of The Alcohol
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ken,

                            The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the
                            alcohol content, and the sugar concentration.

                            From Chapt 2 of "The Alcohol Textbook" ..
                            "The optimum
                            temperature of fermentation when fermenting
                            with yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) is 32 o C
                            and the optimum temperature of reproduction
                            for the yeast is 28 o C. It can also be seen (in Figure
                            2) that without adequate cooling, a fermenter
                            set at 32 o C would inevitably increase in
                            temperature. Every degree in temperature above
                            32 o C will have a tendency to depress fermen-
                            tation, as the yeast cannot handle these higher
                            temperatures. Furthermore, the increase in
                            temperature favors the growth of lactobacilli, the
                            microorganism that competes with yeast for
                            glucose."

                            I'd suggest that this advice is applicable mostly for the short fermentation
                            times that you refer to when fermenting the typical washes targetting around
                            10-12% alcohol.

                            But in Chapter 5 ...
                            ".. It was also seen that the time required
                            to complete fermentation decreased with
                            increases in temperature from 17-33°C. The
                            optimum temperature for fermentation in VHG
                            mashes was found to be 27°C (Wang et al.,
                            1999a; Jones and Ingledew, 1994b). This is
                            significantly below the temperatures used in
                            industry at sugar levels of approximately 23° Brix,
                            but higher than the 20°C used in much of our
                            earlier research...."

                            The VHG refers to Very High Gravity washes - eg the typical sugar water ones
                            that we make, using 0.25 to 0.35 g/L

                            This ties in with the comments from my page (I think they were based from
                            stuff in the "Spirits Unlimited book) ...

                            " Yeast is a living organism, and will die if too stressed. Both alcohol and
                            temperature stress it. With no alcohol around, it won't die until about 40
                            °C. At 14% alcohol, it will die at 33 °C, and at 25 °C if in 20% alcohol. So
                            keep it below 25 °C at ALL times. Lower temperatures will also result in
                            less volitiles. When the temperature has been kept below 30 °C the
                            production of fusel oils is minimal, and is extremely small if kept below a
                            maximum of 25 °C. This is where you get into a bit of a trade-off; if you
                            keep it too cool, it will take heaps longer, with greater time for the risk
                            of infection etc to set in. At 25 °C, it will take 3 days to ferment 0.24
                            kg/L sugar, but at 15 °C it will take nearly 2 weeks."

                            So in simple summary - yeah hotter is ok (27-30C), provided that you're
                            targetting a lower % alcohol. But if you're going to stress the yeast with
                            high sugar content initially, and then high alcohol content later on, keep
                            it cool (25C).

                            The other reason for playing slightly on the cooler side, is incase you get
                            too much temperature rise due to the heat given off during fermentation
                            (sometimes up to 5C with the vigorous yeasts) Many of us heat the wash, but
                            would have trouble cooling it in a controlled manner.

                            Tony
                          • J.zitek
                            hi fizz if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them- you cold try a heat tape.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 16, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hi fizz
                              if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them-
                              you cold try a heat tape. That gives you about 8 watts of heat per foot of tape, you can get them in any lenth.        
                              Keep warm,
                              Jay                                                                                
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:15 AM
                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?

                              Hi Fizz
                              In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                              a box
                              out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                              wired them
                              together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                              20% alc
                              in 4 days.

                              fizzynick@... wrote:

                              > Hi Tone,
                              >
                              > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                              > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                              > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                              > liquids ???????? Nah !
                              >
                              > Fizz
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com



                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            • klcampbell
                              Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting
                                my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                                "D.C.L.Yeast and it is branded "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".

                                My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable also supplies a nutrient
                                package which helps it work.
                                Probably the usual stuff,I'm a toolmaker not a chemist but it seems to work
                                .I believe that D.C.L. have a web site in England but I have never had a
                                look,hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Tim Walters" <trwalters@...>
                                To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2001 1:21
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                                > Hi Ken,
                                >
                                > Ken wrote:
                                >
                                > > Some of the non turbo distillers yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg.
                                > > wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32 degrees"C". Mate it beats the
                                > > hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less volatiles.
                                >
                                > I've been brewing beer for about 12 years, so I know a little about
                                > our little friends. Can you give me some info on why those distiller's
                                > yeasties beat turbos? Also, can you give me a company name and
                                > yeast type you've tried?
                                >
                                > TIA,
                                > T
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                              • hal031235@hotmail.com
                                There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn t find the product listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product details I will post their
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 28, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                  listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                  details

                                  I will post their reply

                                  regards
                                  Ron

                                  --- In new_distillers@y..., Tim Walters <trwalters@m...> wrote:
                                  > Ken wrote:
                                  >
                                  > the yeast that I have been using is from D.C.L.Yeast and it is
                                  branded
                                  > "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".
                                • Matt
                                  ... It s a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find lying around but the Brewbelt is a nice gizmo..it s a heating strap that plugs
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 29, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 01:50:35PM -0000, slacker75@... wrote:
                                    > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
                                    > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
                                    > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
                                    > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
                                    > ambient temp of about 22C?

                                    It's a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find
                                    lying around but the "Brewbelt" is a nice gizmo..it's a heating strap that
                                    plugs into an AC wall outlet. You wrap it around your fermentation vessel
                                    and it keeps it at about 75F... this unit is also made for the UK/Euro
                                    market.


                                    --
                                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Matthew @ psibercom
                                    psibercom.org: doing pretty much nothing for the net since 1994!
                                  • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                                    Hi Ron, Try this one http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html Fizz
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Ron,

                                      Try this one
                                      http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html

                                      Fizz


                                      --- In new_distillers@y..., hal031235@h... wrote:
                                      > There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                      > listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                      > details
                                      >
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.