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Getting the best from your wash ?

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  • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
    I have a question regarding how to take care of your wash. I have made up a batch with 21.5 litres water. 6 kilos of inverted sugar and malic acid (boiled for
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
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      I have a question regarding how to take care of your wash.

      I have made up a batch with 21.5 litres water. 6 kilos of inverted
      sugar and malic acid (boiled for 20 mins, cooled then chucked in the
      bucket) and applied an active batch of CWE yeast with 60g of yeast
      nutrient.

      The ferment has been going for over a week now (not using turbo yeast
      so I don't expect it to be over too soon) and I am curious how people
      treat their wash whilst it ferments.

      Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?

      Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?

      Do you just let it run until it has stopped bubbling?

      Cheers

      Fizz
    • Brian Bashford
      My rule has always been let sleeping dogs lie . If you keep taking the lid off to look at it / agitate it , you risk introducing all sorts of bugs and wild
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
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        My rule has always been "let sleeping dogs lie". If you keep taking the lid off to look at it / agitate it , you risk introducing all sorts of bugs and wild yeasts . Wait until the bubbles in the air lock (if you're using one) have subsided to about one every 5 minutes or less. Then double check with a hydrometer that all the sugar has disappeared. I've had fermentations that have lasted 6 months or more, admittedly not those intended  for distilling.
         
              Brian B.

        I have a question regarding how to take care of your wash.

        I have made up a batch with 21.5 litres water. 6 kilos of inverted
        sugar and malic acid (boiled for 20 mins, cooled then chucked in the
        bucket) and applied an active batch of CWE yeast with 60g of yeast
        nutrient.

        The ferment has been going for over a week now (not using turbo yeast
        so I don't expect it to be over too soon) and I am curious how people
        treat their wash whilst it ferments.

        Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?

        Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?

        Do you just let it run until it has stopped bubbling.


      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
        Fizz, ... I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 8, 2001
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          Fizz,

          > Should it be stirred or mixed in any way while fermenting?
          >
          I think its the Gin-Vodka book that talks about stirring the wash during
          fermentation - eg a mechanical stirrer mounted in the lid (sealed to prevent
          air ingress). This is backed up by stuff in the Alcohol Textbook about the
          yeast settling out and not being available. The main thing to avoid would
          be not to stirr it too vigorously. Just something nice and gentle to get it
          all circulating up off the bottom. I usually give mine a swirl (lid kept
          on) every time i walk past it.

          > Does anyone add any extra goodies during the ferment?
          >

          Some of the new enzymes that work with the grains do so well because they
          slowly meter out the glucose being released over say 3-4 days, rather than
          stressing the yeast with it all from day one. You can do the same with your
          sugar. Rather than toss say all 5kg in at the start, begin with say 2kg,
          then add 1kg a day every day after that. You'll find then often that a 5kg
          yeast can actually handle 6-7 kg+, provided its slowly fed it.

          Tony
        • slacker75@hotmail.com
          Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat generated enough? I haven t gotten around to fermenting anything yet, and was wondering if
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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            Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
            generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
            yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
            insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
            ambient temp of about 22C?

            -Tone
          • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
            Hi Tone, I ve been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks anow and it s still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a heater blanket
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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              Hi Tone,

              I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
              anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
              heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
              liquids ???????? Nah !

              Fizz
            • Tony & Elle Ackland
              Tone, ... Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn t drop too much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 12, 2001
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                Tone,

                > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
                > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
                > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
                > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
                > ambient temp of about 22C?

                Yeah - should be fairly much OK, provided the temperature doesn't drop too
                much at night. Just wrap it in a nice thick blanket. For more ideas, see
                http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp

                Tony
              • klcampbell
                Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 13, 2001
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                  Hey Fizz,get a tea chest and put 2 25 watt light bulbs,wired in parallel and
                  controlled by a cheap dimmer switch,put your fermenter in the chest with the
                  fermentation lock sticking out the top and a digital thermometer in the top
                  and adjust the temp.to what ever you need.Some of the non turbo distillers
                  yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg. wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32
                  degrees"C".Mate it beats the hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less
                  volitiles,Regards,Ken.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <fizzynick@...>
                  To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2001 9:57
                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                  > Hi Tone,
                  >
                  > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                  > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                  > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                  > liquids ???????? Nah !
                  >
                  > Fizz
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • darren korbo
                  Hi Fizz In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built a box out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                    Hi Fizz
                    In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                    a box
                    out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                    wired them
                    together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                    20% alc
                    in 4 days.

                    fizzynick@... wrote:

                    > Hi Tone,
                    >
                    > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                    > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                    > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                    > liquids ???????? Nah !
                    >
                    > Fizz
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                    Thanks for all those really great tips. So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature that I should make sure I keep below ?
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                      Thanks for all those really great tips.

                      So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                      that I should make sure I keep below ?
                    • Tony & Elle Ackland
                      ... Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F) See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details Tony
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 14, 2001
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                        > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                        > that I should make sure I keep below ?

                        Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                        See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details

                        Tony
                      • al lewis
                        Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                          Hi an aquarium heater will do the job fine also. al

                          >From: Tony & Elle Ackland <Tony.Ackland@...>
                          >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: 'New Distillers newsgroup' <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?
                          >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:36:37 +1300
                          >
                          > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                          > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                          >
                          >Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                          >See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                          >
                          >Tony


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                        • klcampbell
                          Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                            Sorry Tony, 25C is too low for a lot of real distillers yeasts,like the ones
                            that are used by the commercial distilleries where time is money and a wash
                            usually takes 4-5 days to complete,O K,they use filtration before
                            distillation but we can learn a lot regarding max. temps. that you can work
                            with.
                            My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable is one of the suppliers of
                            good non turbo style distillers yeasts and I will endeavour to get names and
                            numbers to post ASAP.Regards,Ken.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Tony & Elle Ackland" <Tony.Ackland@...>
                            To: "'New Distillers newsgroup'" <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, 15 October 2001 14:36
                            Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                            > > So, when it comes to heating a wash, is there a maximum temperature
                            > > that I should make sure I keep below ?
                            >
                            > Yeah - aim for below 25C (77F)
                            > See http://homedistiller.org/ferment.htm#temp for more details
                            >
                            > Tony
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                            Ken, The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the alcohol content, and the sugar concentration. From Chapt 2 of The Alcohol
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 15, 2001
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                              Ken,

                              The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors, including the
                              alcohol content, and the sugar concentration.

                              From Chapt 2 of "The Alcohol Textbook" ..
                              "The optimum
                              temperature of fermentation when fermenting
                              with yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) is 32 o C
                              and the optimum temperature of reproduction
                              for the yeast is 28 o C. It can also be seen (in Figure
                              2) that without adequate cooling, a fermenter
                              set at 32 o C would inevitably increase in
                              temperature. Every degree in temperature above
                              32 o C will have a tendency to depress fermen-
                              tation, as the yeast cannot handle these higher
                              temperatures. Furthermore, the increase in
                              temperature favors the growth of lactobacilli, the
                              microorganism that competes with yeast for
                              glucose."

                              I'd suggest that this advice is applicable mostly for the short fermentation
                              times that you refer to when fermenting the typical washes targetting around
                              10-12% alcohol.

                              But in Chapter 5 ...
                              ".. It was also seen that the time required
                              to complete fermentation decreased with
                              increases in temperature from 17-33°C. The
                              optimum temperature for fermentation in VHG
                              mashes was found to be 27°C (Wang et al.,
                              1999a; Jones and Ingledew, 1994b). This is
                              significantly below the temperatures used in
                              industry at sugar levels of approximately 23° Brix,
                              but higher than the 20°C used in much of our
                              earlier research...."

                              The VHG refers to Very High Gravity washes - eg the typical sugar water ones
                              that we make, using 0.25 to 0.35 g/L

                              This ties in with the comments from my page (I think they were based from
                              stuff in the "Spirits Unlimited book) ...

                              " Yeast is a living organism, and will die if too stressed. Both alcohol and
                              temperature stress it. With no alcohol around, it won't die until about 40
                              °C. At 14% alcohol, it will die at 33 °C, and at 25 °C if in 20% alcohol. So
                              keep it below 25 °C at ALL times. Lower temperatures will also result in
                              less volitiles. When the temperature has been kept below 30 °C the
                              production of fusel oils is minimal, and is extremely small if kept below a
                              maximum of 25 °C. This is where you get into a bit of a trade-off; if you
                              keep it too cool, it will take heaps longer, with greater time for the risk
                              of infection etc to set in. At 25 °C, it will take 3 days to ferment 0.24
                              kg/L sugar, but at 15 °C it will take nearly 2 weeks."

                              So in simple summary - yeah hotter is ok (27-30C), provided that you're
                              targetting a lower % alcohol. But if you're going to stress the yeast with
                              high sugar content initially, and then high alcohol content later on, keep
                              it cool (25C).

                              The other reason for playing slightly on the cooler side, is incase you get
                              too much temperature rise due to the heat given off during fermentation
                              (sometimes up to 5C with the vigorous yeasts) Many of us heat the wash, but
                              would have trouble cooling it in a controlled manner.

                              Tony
                            • J.zitek
                              hi fizz if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them- you cold try a heat tape.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 16, 2001
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                                hi fizz
                                if electricity and water scares you,try a candle or breathe on it.While electric blankets are safe-lots of people use them-
                                you cold try a heat tape. That gives you about 8 watts of heat per foot of tape, you can get them in any lenth.        
                                Keep warm,
                                Jay                                                                                
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:15 AM
                                Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?

                                Hi Fizz
                                In the great white north it gets cold at night. To keep my wash warm I built
                                a box
                                out of plywood and insulated it .Then I got a in car heater and a thermostat
                                wired them
                                together and now I can keep my wash at 80F. At that temp a wash will be at
                                20% alc
                                in 4 days.

                                fizzynick@... wrote:

                                > Hi Tone,
                                >
                                > I've been keeping mine wrapped in a blanket for nearly three weeks
                                > anow and it's still fizzing away like a fresh can of Coke. I guess a
                                > heater blanket would be nice, but then ......... Me, electrics,
                                > liquids ???????? Nah !
                                >
                                > Fizz
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com



                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              • klcampbell
                                Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 27, 2001
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                                  Sorry Mate,things got rather hectic at work and I have had trouble getting
                                  my mind into gear some nights,now the yeast that I have been using is from
                                  "D.C.L.Yeast and it is branded "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".

                                  My friendly purveyor of all things fermentable also supplies a nutrient
                                  package which helps it work.
                                  Probably the usual stuff,I'm a toolmaker not a chemist but it seems to work
                                  .I believe that D.C.L. have a web site in England but I have never had a
                                  look,hoping this helps,Regards,Ken.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Tim Walters" <trwalters@...>
                                  To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2001 1:21
                                  Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: Getting the best from your wash ?


                                  > Hi Ken,
                                  >
                                  > Ken wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Some of the non turbo distillers yeasts will ferment out a 7.5Kg.
                                  > > wash of 25 Lts. in 4 days @ 32 degrees"C". Mate it beats the
                                  > > hell out of turbo's and produces a lot less volatiles.
                                  >
                                  > I've been brewing beer for about 12 years, so I know a little about
                                  > our little friends. Can you give me some info on why those distiller's
                                  > yeasties beat turbos? Also, can you give me a company name and
                                  > yeast type you've tried?
                                  >
                                  > TIA,
                                  > T
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                • hal031235@hotmail.com
                                  There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn t find the product listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product details I will post their
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 28, 2001
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                                    There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                    listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                    details

                                    I will post their reply

                                    regards
                                    Ron

                                    --- In new_distillers@y..., Tim Walters <trwalters@m...> wrote:
                                    > Ken wrote:
                                    >
                                    > the yeast that I have been using is from D.C.L.Yeast and it is
                                    branded
                                    > "SAF-DISTIL.B-28".
                                  • Matt
                                    ... It s a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find lying around but the Brewbelt is a nice gizmo..it s a heating strap that plugs
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 29, 2001
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                                      On Fri, Oct 12, 2001 at 01:50:35PM -0000, slacker75@... wrote:
                                      > Do you electricaly heat your wash while fermenting, or is the heat
                                      > generated enough? I haven't gotten around to fermenting anything
                                      > yet, and was wondering if I could just sling it in a big bucket and
                                      > insulate it? Would it stay warm enough if kept in a room with an
                                      > ambient temp of about 22C?

                                      It's a bit of an expense compared to a DIY job of parts you might find
                                      lying around but the "Brewbelt" is a nice gizmo..it's a heating strap that
                                      plugs into an AC wall outlet. You wrap it around your fermentation vessel
                                      and it keeps it at about 75F... this unit is also made for the UK/Euro
                                      market.


                                      --
                                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Matthew @ psibercom
                                      psibercom.org: doing pretty much nothing for the net since 1994!
                                    • fizzynick@yahoo.co.uk
                                      Hi Ron, Try this one http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html Fizz
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Oct 30, 2001
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                                        Hi Ron,

                                        Try this one
                                        http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/safbrew.html

                                        Fizz


                                        --- In new_distillers@y..., hal031235@h... wrote:
                                        > There web site is www.dclyeast.co.uk. I couldn't find the product
                                        > listed and I am awaiting their response to my e-mail for product
                                        > details
                                        >
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