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  • ray_goering
    Gentelmen and Ladies, My wife s been making wine for many years now, in fact we have about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased a StillSpirits
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 30, 2003
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      Gentelmen and Ladies,
      My wife's been making wine for many years now, in fact we have
      about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased a
      StillSpirits reflux still. So far I've been very pleased with the
      85% alcohol it puts out.
      I've been going over many web site trying to find definitive
      answers, but decided it would be best just to ask people who have
      been doing this for a while.

      Fusel Oils. Whats the deal? Are they bad? Are they good? Do
      they flavor the distillate? Do they cause madness and death?

      The reflux still is producing high proof alcohol from plum and
      blackberry wine, but is missing most of the fruit flavor. What can I
      do the retain the flavor of the fermented mash without keeping toxins
      that may be present in the higher temp distillate?

      Many sites not only recommend, but state as a requirement that I
      filter with active carbon. In fact, the retailer storngly
      recommended I purchace one. The problem is I have to water the
      distillate down to 50% for the carbon to work. Well now, this
      defeats the purpose of producing high proof alcohol. Is carbon
      filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor?

      As I have yet to find any diffinative answers on the net so far, I
      apprieciate any answers or opinions you may be able to give
      reguarding my questions. I look forward to hearing from you and
      participating on this board in the future.

      Boiling under pressure for tomorrow night,
      Ray
    • BOKAKOB
      Ray here are answers what I think are close to reality: Fusel Oils. What’s the deal? NOT MUCH – THEY ARE THERE TO STAY Are they bad? YES IN LARGE
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 30, 2003
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        Ray here are answers what I think are close to reality:


        Fusel Oils. What�s the deal? NOT MUCH � THEY ARE THERE TO STAY

        Are they bad? YES IN LARGE QUANTITIES

        Are they good? DEPENDS WHAT YOU ARE MAKING

        Do they flavor the distillate? VERY BADLY IN LARGE QUANTITIES

        Do they cause madness and death? MAYBE IN LARGE QUANTITIES BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO WORK HARD ON THIS ONE.

        What can I do the retain the flavor of the fermented mash (USE POT STILL OR REMOVE PACKING MATERIAL) without keeping toxins that may be present in the higher temp distillate? CUT OUTPUT SHORT OF REACHING HIGH TEMPERATURE

        Is carbon filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor? NO IF THE MIDDLE CUT IS SELECTED CORRECTLY.



        Cheers, Alex.


        ray_goering <rgoering@...> wrote:Gentelmen and Ladies,
        My wife's been making wine for many years now, in fact we have
        about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased a
        StillSpirits reflux still. So far I've been very pleased with the
        85% alcohol it puts out.
        I've been going over many web site trying to find definitive
        answers, but decided it would be best just to ask people who have
        been doing this for a while.

        Fusel Oils. Whats the deal? Are they bad? Are they good? Do
        they flavor the distillate? Do they cause madness and death?

        The reflux still is producing high proof alcohol from plum and
        blackberry wine, but is missing most of the fruit flavor. What can I
        do the retain the flavor of the fermented mash without keeping toxins
        that may be present in the higher temp distillate?

        Many sites not only recommend, but state as a requirement that I
        filter with active carbon. In fact, the retailer storngly
        recommended I purchace one. The problem is I have to water the
        distillate down to 50% for the carbon to work. Well now, this
        defeats the purpose of producing high proof alcohol. Is carbon
        filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor?

        As I have yet to find any diffinative answers on the net so far, I
        apprieciate any answers or opinions you may be able to give
        reguarding my questions. I look forward to hearing from you and
        participating on this board in the future.

        Boiling under pressure for tomorrow night,
        Ray






        New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
        FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org

        ttp://archive.nnytech.net/
        FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org




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        I can be wrong I must say
        Cheers, Alex...



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      • Mark Little
        Gentelmen and Ladies, My wife s been making wine for many years now, in fact we have about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased a StillSpirits
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 30, 2003
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          Gentelmen and Ladies,
          My wife's been making wine for many years now, in fact
          we have
          about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased
          a
          StillSpirits reflux still. So far I've been very pleased
          with the
          85% alcohol it puts out.
          I've been going over many web site trying to find
          definitive
          answers, but decided it would be best just to ask people
          who have
          been doing this for a while.

          Fusel Oils. Whats the deal? Are they bad? Are they
          good? Do
          they flavor the distillate? Do they cause madness and
          death?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ``
          Fusel Oils is a general term for the crap that comes
          across after the ethanol has been distilled, with some
          stills an oil slick forms on the top of the alcohol. They
          are also what flavours commercial gin,rum,whisky etc. They
          give you a headache

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

          The reflux still is producing high proof alcohol from plum
          and
          blackberry wine, but is missing most of the fruit flavor.
          What can I
          do the retain the flavor of the fermented mash without
          keeping toxins
          that may be present in the higher temp distillate?
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
          Remove the cooling tube that supplies water to the
          condenser around the collum out of the centre of the lid.
          remove OR leave the marble/ packing depending on personal
          taste over several distillations.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ~~~~~~~~~

          Many sites not only recommend, but state as a
          requirement that I
          filter with active carbon. In fact, the retailer storngly
          recommended I purchace one. The problem is I have to
          water the
          distillate down to 50% for the carbon to work. Well now,
          this
          defeats the purpose of producing high proof alcohol. Is
          carbon
          filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor?

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ~~~~~~~
          Most people will recomend carbon filtering unless
          producing 95+% alc , it removes any unwanted odours/flavours
          from the alcohol (pour a bottle of commercial rum whisky etc
          thru carbon and you will get clear unflavoured alcohol
          (vodka)), most will also recomend filtering at or below for
          the carbon to be more effective, which isnt to say it doesnt
          work at all above , it just works below 50%. Personally I
          too would recomed carbon filtering if when using that
          particular still, sone pot scrubber up the collum should
          improve the taste.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


          As I have yet to find any diffinative answers on the net
          so far, I
          apprieciate any answers or opinions you may be able to
          give
          reguarding my questions. I look forward to hearing from
          you and
          participating on this board in the future.

          Boiling under pressure for tomorrow night,
          Ray


          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

          MARK

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`




          New Distillers group archives are at
          http://archive.nnytech.net/
          FAQ and other information available at
          http://homedistiller.org

          ttp://archive.nnytech.net/
          FAQ and other information available at
          http://homedistiller.org





          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT





          ------------------------------------------------------------
          ------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • waljaco
          Note - some fruits do not have much flavor! Fruit flavor - use more fruit - up to all fruit. distill between 75-60%abv. steep fruit in 65%abv and then
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 30, 2003
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            Note - some fruits do not have much flavor!
            Fruit flavor -
            use more fruit - up to all fruit.
            distill between 75-60%abv.
            steep fruit in 65%abv and then redistill - 2-4kg fruit/litre alc.,
            then dilute to 40-45%abv.
            If you throw away the first 3% (about 100ml for a 20l wash) you will
            eliminate methanol. Fusel alcohols have a BP higher than 92C.

            Wal
            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ray_goering" <rgoering@m...>
            wrote:
            > Gentelmen and Ladies,
            > My wife's been making wine for many years now, in fact we have
            > about 50gals ready to bottle. For a present, I purchased a
            > StillSpirits reflux still. So far I've been very pleased with the
            > 85% alcohol it puts out.
            > I've been going over many web site trying to find definitive
            > answers, but decided it would be best just to ask people who have
            > been doing this for a while.
            >
            > Fusel Oils. Whats the deal? Are they bad? Are they good?
            Do
            > they flavor the distillate? Do they cause madness and death?
            >
            > The reflux still is producing high proof alcohol from plum and
            > blackberry wine, but is missing most of the fruit flavor. What can
            I
            > do the retain the flavor of the fermented mash without keeping
            toxins
            > that may be present in the higher temp distillate?
            >
            > Many sites not only recommend, but state as a requirement that I
            > filter with active carbon. In fact, the retailer storngly
            > recommended I purchace one. The problem is I have to water the
            > distillate down to 50% for the carbon to work. Well now, this
            > defeats the purpose of producing high proof alcohol. Is carbon
            > filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor?
            >
            > As I have yet to find any diffinative answers on the net so far,
            I
            > apprieciate any answers or opinions you may be able to give
            > reguarding my questions. I look forward to hearing from you and
            > participating on this board in the future.
            >
            > Boiling under pressure for tomorrow night,
            > Ray
          • ray_goering
            ... will ... Thanks Wal, My concern is that, according to the charts I have, Propanol s (rubbing alcohol)BP is 82C. Is that safe to drink? I m kinda confused
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 31, 2003
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              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
              > Note - some fruits do not have much flavor!
              > Fruit flavor -
              > use more fruit - up to all fruit.
              > distill between 75-60%abv.
              > steep fruit in 65%abv and then redistill - 2-4kg fruit/litre alc.,
              > then dilute to 40-45%abv.
              > If you throw away the first 3% (about 100ml for a 20l wash) you
              will
              > eliminate methanol. Fusel alcohols have a BP higher than 92C.
              >
              > Wal

              Thanks Wal,
              My concern is that, according to the charts I have, Propanol's
              (rubbing alcohol)BP is 82C. Is that safe to drink?

              I'm kinda confused as to the nature of the fusel oils. Some
              places say strip it out completely with carbon, others say its what
              flavors the brew. I've read the whiskey is both heads and tails. I
              thought the point was to ditch both because thay contained poison.
              For the most part what I figured out is to strip all the methenol I
              can out, and try to stop before I get too much fusels. Should I be
              testing my distillate on the family pets to see if its okay to drink?

              Let me get this stright, if I do a primary "stripping run" in a
              pot still configuration, dilute, and then reflux it, it will retain
              flavor? Won't it be still come out as neutral spirit with little to
              no taste? If I just made the high % distillate and then steeped it
              in fruit would that absorb flavor?

              I've read things that say as much, but I was hoping to get people
              who have actually done it.
            • cheeperdrunk
              Congeners.. Congeners are toxic substances created during the alcohol fermentation process. When you drink alcohol, these toxins are dispersed into your system
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 31, 2003
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                Congeners..
                Congeners are toxic substances created during the alcohol
                fermentation process. When you drink alcohol, these toxins are
                dispersed into your system as your liver breaks down the alcohol.
                While congeners are not the sole cause of a hangover, they do seem to
                contribute in some manner to the "quality" of the ensuing hangover
                visit here for more info. http://www.all-about-
                hangovers.com/html/congeners.html

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ray_goering" <rgoering@m...>
                wrote:
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...>
                wrote:
                > > Note - some fruits do not have much flavor!
                > > Fruit flavor -
                > > use more fruit - up to all fruit.
                > > distill between 75-60%abv.
                > > steep fruit in 65%abv and then redistill - 2-4kg fruit/litre
                alc.,
                > > then dilute to 40-45%abv.
                > > If you throw away the first 3% (about 100ml for a 20l wash) you
                > will
                > > eliminate methanol. Fusel alcohols have a BP higher than 92C.
                > >
                > > Wal
                >
                > Thanks Wal,
                > My concern is that, according to the charts I have, Propanol's
                > (rubbing alcohol)BP is 82C. Is that safe to drink?
                >
                > I'm kinda confused as to the nature of the fusel oils. Some
                > places say strip it out completely with carbon, others say its what
                > flavors the brew. I've read the whiskey is both heads and tails.
                I
                > thought the point was to ditch both because thay contained
                poison.
                > For the most part what I figured out is to strip all the methenol I
                > can out, and try to stop before I get too much fusels. Should I be
                > testing my distillate on the family pets to see if its okay to
                drink?
                >
                > Let me get this stright, if I do a primary "stripping run" in a
                > pot still configuration, dilute, and then reflux it, it will retain
                > flavor? Won't it be still come out as neutral spirit with little
                to
                > no taste? If I just made the high % distillate and then steeped it
                > in fruit would that absorb flavor?
                >
                > I've read things that say as much, but I was hoping to get
                people
                > who have actually done it.
              • Rutger
                http://www.all-about- ... This link doesn t work. corrected link: http://tinyurl.com/2msvt Please use this free service, it will help all in just two clicks.
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 31, 2003
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                  http://www.all-about-
                  > hangovers.com/html/congeners.html

                  This link doesn't work.

                  corrected link: http://tinyurl.com/2msvt

                  Please use this free service, it will help all in just two clicks.

                  Rutger
                • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                  Ray, ... Do not use carbon if you want to keep the flavour of the fruit. The idea of using carbon is to help clean up neutral alcohol, to make a clean vodka
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 5, 2004
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                    Ray,

                    > Many sites not only recommend, but state as a requirement that I
                    > filter with active carbon. In fact, the retailer storngly
                    > recommended I purchace one. The problem is I have to water the
                    > distillate down to 50% for the carbon to work. Well now, this
                    > defeats the purpose of producing high proof alcohol. Is carbon
                    > filtration necessary to produce a non-toxic liquor?

                    Do not use carbon if you want to keep the flavour of the fruit.

                    The idea of using carbon is to help clean up neutral alcohol, to make a clean vodka for use with essences etc. Thats what most of the commercial stills are targetting - they don't normally consider someone starting with other than a sugar-wash or wanting some flavour.

                    If you are starting with fruit/wine, and want to keep that flavour, do not use carbon.
                    More info at http://homedistiller.org/polish.htm

                    Tony
                  • nanosleep
                    My $0.03 (inflation) The process of distillation does not create poison. It simply separates compounds which already exist in your wine. If you feel
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 5, 2004
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                      My $0.03 (inflation)

                      The process of distillation does not create poison. It simply
                      separates compounds which already exist in your wine. If you feel
                      comfortable drinking every last drop of your wine then you can drink
                      everything that comes out of the still. There will not be any new
                      poisons generated, however whatever is in the wine will be
                      concentrated (and easier to consume in large quantities). While you
                      *can* drink everything that comes out of the still and no be any worse
                      off than drinking all the wine, you have the opportunity to remove
                      some of the nastier components. Look at homedistiller.org for
                      information on how to make cuts.

                      "You can't get flavor from a reflux still" You've probably heard this
                      before. It's not exactly true. A reflux is very good at it's job
                      (separating compounds). The reflux still will separate the flavor
                      components from the pure alcohol. The good part is that you can also
                      collect the flavor. If you keep running the reflux still eventually
                      everything that can boil into vapor will come out (alcohol, water,
                      flavor compounds,..). The great thing about the reflux still over a
                      pot still is that the compounds will come out in more distinct stages.
                      The heads/main/tails stages on a pot still are blurred together.
                      Your main collect will contain more of the heads and tails (flavor).
                      On a reflux still the main collect will contain little of the
                      heads/tails (no flavor). The benefit here is that you get to pick and
                      mix which parts you want to keep and which you want to pour down the
                      drain. Collect in small bottles and mix to your taste after the
                      distillation is over. You probably want to improve your still so that
                      it's capable of producing ~95% alcohol. This lets you produce a clean
                      vodka when you want, and it lets you get even more distinct separation
                      of the components/flavors.

                      I've used blackberries. The wine was wonderfully fragrant. Very
                      berry! The distillate has very little of this flavor. At first it
                      had a 'wax' flavor, but that seems to be going away with age. I
                      fermented the entire crushed berry. Did you use a wine press with
                      yours?

                      I've also used peaches. Again the wine was much more fragrant than
                      the distillate. The peach does have more flavor than the blackberry,
                      but it's still not as powerful as I wanted. At first the peach was
                      somewhat bitter, but that seems to be improving with age. I fermented
                      very thinly sliced with skins but no pits.

                      I've done a batch with pears, but I messed up and burned the mash when
                      I was distilling. The distillate smells of smoke and is undrinkable.
                      From the few tastes I got before I burned it, I think it will make a
                      very good drink. I'll definitely be doing more next season. I
                      removed the core, sliced, ran them through the sausage grinder, and
                      fermented.

                      I don't use carbon on anything I make. For fruit and grain type stuff
                      I don't want to remove the flavor. For clean vodka type stuff just
                      put a longer column on your still and use better packing.
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