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A Question

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  • David McClelland
    A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to revisit for a while. Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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      A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to
      revisit for a while.

      Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
      relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
      action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe, eccentric
      and (usually) unflappable?

      It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
      exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
      Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others, from
      Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.

      Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our heroes do
      you most enjoy seeing front and center?
    • Sara Medin
      Archie certainly is a charmer, but for me nothing competes with Wolfe when he s aggravated beyond measure. I particularly enjoyed watching him tromp through
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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        Archie certainly is a charmer, but for me nothing competes with Wolfe when he's aggravated beyond measure. I particularly enjoyed watching him tromp through the snow during "Doorway to Death," insisting that a "serpent" had caught his leg instead of a tree branch. Or, when he was cooking the trout in "Immune to Murder," or the various spats he has with Fritz when they disagree about how to prepare dinner. Priceless.

        Silvia Zaclis <silviazaclis@...> wrote:
        For "watching", I prefer Archie. He's charming (something that not often can
        be told about his boss), has a nice sense of humour (the same) and above all
        supplies the information that will allow Wolfe to exercise his geniality. I
        am a big fan of both of them but if I have to choose to watch only one,
        Archie wins. And more: as most of the action involving Wolfe occurs inside
        his head, it's a lot more appealing to follow the elegant Archie in his
        errands all over Manhattan.

        Silvia
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "David McClelland" <chatnoir210@...>
        To: <nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:34 AM
        Subject: [NeroWolfe] A Question


        > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to
        > revisit for a while.
        >
        > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
        > relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
        > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe, eccentric
        > and (usually) unflappable?
        >
        > It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
        > exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
        > Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others, from
        > Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.
        >
        > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our heroes do
        > you most enjoy seeing front and center?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



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      • Silvia Zaclis
        For watching , I prefer Archie. He s charming (something that not often can be told about his boss), has a nice sense of humour (the same) and above all
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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          For "watching", I prefer Archie. He's charming (something that not often can
          be told about his boss), has a nice sense of humour (the same) and above all
          supplies the information that will allow Wolfe to exercise his geniality. I
          am a big fan of both of them but if I have to choose to watch only one,
          Archie wins. And more: as most of the action involving Wolfe occurs inside
          his head, it's a lot more appealing to follow the elegant Archie in his
          errands all over Manhattan.

          Silvia
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "David McClelland" <chatnoir210@...>
          To: <nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:34 AM
          Subject: [NeroWolfe] A Question


          > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to
          > revisit for a while.
          >
          > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
          > relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
          > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe, eccentric
          > and (usually) unflappable?
          >
          > It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
          > exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
          > Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others, from
          > Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.
          >
          > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our heroes do
          > you most enjoy seeing front and center?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • entwold@att.net
          ... I have been, since the first time I heard his voice, an Archiephile. It s not that I don t enjoy Wolfe watching, but I can never get past the fact that
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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            Flum asked:
            >
            > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
            > relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
            > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe, eccentric
            > and (usually) unflappable?...
            >
            > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our heroes do
            > you most enjoy seeing front and center?

            I have been, since the first time I "heard" his voice, an Archiephile. It's not that I don't enjoy Wolfe watching, but I can never get past the fact that we only ever see Wolfe through Archie's eyes. So, not only do I have to take Wolfe sightings with a grain of salt -- Archie is not above exaggeration, you know -- but I am terribly distracted, enchanted, and eternally amused by Archie's take on his Wolfecentric universe. I have no choice but to watch Archie, because for me he is always front and center. And I love every minute of it!

            --
            Lovin' Babe! aka Jessie
            entwold@...
            O! Give Wolfe a home, so he won't have to roam
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pfight/
          • P. Cameron Hume
            With Archie s uncanny ability to recite conversations verbatim, I am inclined to believe he gives us an accurate portrayal of what Wolfe says and does. That
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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              With Archie's uncanny ability to recite conversations verbatim, I
              am inclined to believe he gives us an accurate portrayal of what
              Wolfe says and does. That being said, I have to say unequivically --
              I prefer Wolfe's bombastic outbursts and his battles of wits and
              words, to the man about town that Archie plays. However, I must
              also add that one without the other would be insufferable and they
              compliment each other unusually well.

              Cameron

              --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "David McClelland"
              <chatnoir210@...> wrote:
              >
              > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting
              to
              > revisit for a while.
              >
              > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
              > relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching'
              in
              > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe,
              eccentric
              > and (usually) unflappable?
              >
              > It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
              > exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
              > Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others,
              from
              > Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.
              >
              > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our
              heroes do
              > you most enjoy seeing front and center?
              >
            • a@avenarius.sk
              ... I mainly fall smack in between these two camps: the main attraction of Rex Stout s stories is the interaction between Wolfe and Archie. I like Archie more
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                On Tuesday, 7th February 2006 at 13:34:16 (GMT), David McClelland wrote:

                > [...] who do you most enjoy 'watching' in action? Archie [...] or Wolfe [...]?
                > [...] Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps?

                I mainly fall smack in between these two camps: the main attraction
                of Rex Stout's stories is the interaction between Wolfe and Archie.

                I like Archie more than Wolfe (on the emotional level), and
                I appreciate Wolfe more than Archie (on the intellectual level).
                As a reader I'm responding to the stories both on the emotional
                and on the intellectual level, without giving precedence
                to any of the two.

                My emotional side has been greatly influenced by Archie's vision
                of the world, and my intellectual side has been greatly influenced
                by Wolfe's vision of the world. The two influences unite in us
                as readers: it's the interaction of the two influences in us
                that makes these stories so interesting.

                --
                Yours,
                Alex.
                http://avenarius.sk/stout

                [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.65.01]
              • Lesile Legg
                It s Archie first and foremost for me. He is one of my favorite literary characters. I love his sense of humor. Lesile ... From: P. Cameron Hume To:
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                  It's Archie first and foremost for me.   He is one of my favorite literary characters.   I love his sense of humor. 
                   
                  Lesile
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:36 PM
                  Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: A Question

                  With Archie's uncanny ability to recite conversations verbatim,  I
                  am inclined to believe he gives us an accurate portrayal of what
                  Wolfe says and does.  That being said, I have to say unequivically --
                  I prefer Wolfe's bombastic outbursts and his battles of wits and
                  words, to the man about town that Archie plays.  However, I must
                  also add that one without the other would be insufferable and they
                  compliment each other unusually well.

                  Cameron

                  --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "David McClelland"
                  <chatnoir210@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting
                  to
                  > revisit for a while.

                  > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
                  > relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching'
                  in
                  > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe,
                  eccentric
                  > and (usually) unflappable?  
                  >
                  > It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
                  > exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
                  > Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others,
                  from
                  > Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.
                  >
                  > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our
                  heroes do
                  > you most enjoy seeing front and center?
                  >




                • Paul O'Donnell
                  Have you noticed how many women prefer Archie?? ;-) I m with Alex, and I like them both equally and for different things, and also it differs with the books
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                    Have you noticed how many women prefer Archie?? ;-) I'm with Alex, and
                    I like them both equally and for different things, and also it differs
                    with the books and the TV show. In the books I find very little to like
                    about Wolfe, as it is, Archie drives the narrative and it his wit and
                    style that appeals. That is brought to the books flawlessly, but in
                    Maury Chaykin <http://imdb.com/name/nm0001999/> Wolfe has a lot more
                    going for him. It's the little facial expressions he does, especially
                    at times when he can't verbally communicate to Archie how he feels, and
                    I always get the bigger belly laughs at Maury doing that. Things like
                    the Starlings in Golden Spiders, Wolfe has thrown his rattle from the
                    pram, and simply can't eat the Starlings, but watching Archie enjoy
                    every last bite simply is driving him up the wall.
                    <http://imdb.com/name/nm0001999/>
                  • a@avenarius.sk
                    ... Just to prove how insufferable Wolfe can be: It s complement each other, Archie, complement, he sighed. Heaven forbid I should live long enough to feel
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                      On Tuesday, 7th February 2006 at 21:36:16 (GMT), P. Cameron Hume wrote:

                      > one without the other would be insufferable and they compliment
                      > each other unusually well.

                      Just to prove how insufferable Wolfe can be:

                      "It's complement each other, Archie, complement," he sighed. "Heaven
                      forbid I should live long enough to feel compelled to trade compliments
                      with anyone, not even you."

                      --
                      Yours,
                      Alex.
                      http://avenarius.sk/stout

                      [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.65.01]
                    • Sam Hasler
                      If a lurker can interpose I would say the whole ensemble. But Wolfe without Archie would not be so much fun but Archie without Wolfe is still
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                        If a lurker can interpose I would say the whole
                        ensemble. <g> But Wolfe without Archie would not be
                        so much fun but Archie without Wolfe is still
                        interesting. In Wolfe's Wolfe on his own would still
                        be more interesting than say Poirot because - as
                        someone said - Wolfe is one of the few literary
                        geniuses who sounds like a genius.

                        --- Lesile Legg <leso325@...> wrote:

                        > It's Archie first and foremost for me. He is one
                        > of my favorite literary characters. I love his
                        > sense of humor.
                        >
                        > Lesile
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: P. Cameron Hume
                        > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:36 PM
                        > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: A Question
                        >
                        >
                        > With Archie's uncanny ability to recite
                        > conversations verbatim, I
                        > am inclined to believe he gives us an accurate
                        > portrayal of what
                        > Wolfe says and does. That being said, I have to
                        > say unequivically --
                        > I prefer Wolfe's bombastic outbursts and his
                        > battles of wits and
                        > words, to the man about town that Archie plays.
                        > However, I must
                        > also add that one without the other would be
                        > insufferable and they
                        > compliment each other unusually well.
                        >
                        > Cameron
                        >
                        > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "David
                        > McClelland"
                        > <chatnoir210@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I
                        > have been wanting
                        > to
                        > > revisit for a while.
                        > >
                        > > Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and
                        > their many-layered
                        > > relationship; that's a given. But who do you
                        > most enjoy 'watching'
                        > in
                        > > action? Archie, with his quips and suave
                        > assurance or Wolfe,
                        > eccentric
                        > > and (usually) unflappable?
                        > >
                        > > It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but
                        > by no means
                        > > exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie
                        > people.
                        > > Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit
                        > and dash; others,
                        > from
                        > > Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.
                        > >
                        > > Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps?
                        > Which of our
                        > heroes do
                        > > you most enjoy seeing front and center?
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • James Blackshire
                        I agree that neither alone would have the same impact that they have as a team, but to chose one, I think that Archie can tell a great story, but Wolfe IS the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                          I agree that neither alone would have the same impact that they have as a team, but to chose one, I think that Archie can tell a great story, but Wolfe IS the story.  Another favorite Wiolfe moment is in Poison a'la Carte when Wolfe dashes off in all the wrong directions, muttering "confound it...."

                          David McClelland <chatnoir210@...> wrote:
                          A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to
                          revisit for a while.

                          Of course, we all love Wolfe and Archie and their many-layered
                          relationship; that's a given. But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
                          action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe, eccentric
                          and (usually) unflappable?  

                          It seems that the Wolfe fandom is largely, but by no means
                          exclusively, made up of Wolfe people and Archie people.
                          Some get their biggest kicks from Archie's wit and dash; others, from
                          Wolfe's enigmatic eccentricity.

                          Do you fall mainly into one of these two camps? Which of our heroes do
                          you most enjoy seeing front and center?






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                        • captcaffeine2004
                          ... eccentric ... ######################################################################## I really like the interaction between both, but if I had to choose
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 7, 2006
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                            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "David McClelland" <chatnoir210@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > A recent discussion brought to mind a question I have been wanting to
                            > revisit for a while.
                            >
                            > But who do you most enjoy 'watching' in
                            > action? Archie, with his quips and suave assurance or Wolfe,
                            eccentric
                            > and (usually) unflappable?
                            >
                            ########################################################################

                            I really like the interaction between both, but if I had to choose to
                            have a story where one is present (while the other is missing) I would
                            choose Nero over Archie. (I've actually met a couple of "Archies" in
                            my life, but I have NEVER met a "Nero.") To me Nero Wolfe wins
                            easily. Vinny, in TX
                            >
                          • David McClelland
                            For me, Wolfe is the draw. Of course, I enjoy Archie immensely. The difference is, Archie is right there, telling you what he thinks and feels, whereas Wolfe
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                              For me, Wolfe is the draw. Of course, I enjoy Archie immensely. The
                              difference is, Archie is right there, telling you what he thinks and
                              feels, whereas Wolfe takes work. Despite Archie's highly vaunted
                              memory, his interpretations are by no means gospel; in fact, there are
                              times when Stout winks and tells you to look beyond what Archie says.
                              Wolfe's forbidding exterior is like that of another wizard, the one
                              from Oz. And in Wolfe's case, too, the truth comes out when the
                              curtain is pulled open a bit and we get a glimpse of his romantic,
                              quixotic, sentimental side.
                            • tabbythesnatcher
                              ... And you wonder why we prefer him? Anyway, I agree with Alex: Stout s real masterpiece is the invention of the Wolfe/Archie s relashionship. An Archiegirl.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Paul O'Donnell <pod@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Have you noticed how many women prefer Archie??


                                And you wonder why we prefer him?
                                Anyway, I agree with Alex: Stout's real masterpiece is the
                                invention of the Wolfe/Archie's relashionship.
                                An Archiegirl.






                                ;-) I'm with Alex, and
                                > I like them both equally and for different things, and also it
                                differs
                                > with the books and the TV show. In the books I find very little
                                to like
                                > about Wolfe, as it is, Archie drives the narrative and it his wit
                                and
                                > style that appeals. That is brought to the books flawlessly, but
                                in
                                > Maury Chaykin <http://imdb.com/name/nm0001999/> Wolfe has a lot
                                more
                                > going for him. It's the little facial expressions he does,
                                especially
                                > at times when he can't verbally communicate to Archie how he
                                feels, and
                                > I always get the bigger belly laughs at Maury doing that. Things
                                like
                                > the Starlings in Golden Spiders, Wolfe has thrown his rattle from
                                the
                                > pram, and simply can't eat the Starlings, but watching Archie
                                enjoy
                                > every last bite simply is driving him up the wall.
                                > <http://imdb.com/name/nm0001999/>
                                >
                              • Dorothy Young
                                Paul wrote, ... Interesting observation. Archie doesn t appeal to me on a romantic/sexual level. But I think he s one of the very best, most completely
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                  Paul wrote,
                                  > Have you noticed how many women prefer Archie?? ;-)

                                  Interesting observation. Archie doesn't appeal to me on a romantic/sexual
                                  level. But I think he's one of the very best, most completely realized
                                  characters in American literature. He's an avatar of Huck Finn. And from me
                                  that is high praise, indeed.

                                  Wolfe to me is a "typical" eccentric if I may use that term. The son of
                                  Sherlock Holmes and the grandfather of Mr. Spock, if you will.

                                  Dorothy
                                • Robert Cartwright
                                  On the mark!!! Perceptive. Well said. Satisfactory. Bob David McClelland wrote: For me, Wolfe is the draw. Of course, I
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                    On the mark!!!  Perceptive.  Well said.  Satisfactory.

                                    Bob

                                    David McClelland <chatnoir210@...> wrote:
                                    For me, Wolfe is the draw. Of course, I enjoy Archie immensely. The
                                    difference is, Archie is right there, telling you what he thinks and
                                    feels, whereas Wolfe takes work. Despite Archie's highly vaunted
                                    memory, his interpretations are by no means gospel; in fact, there are
                                    times when Stout winks and tells you to look beyond what Archie says.
                                    Wolfe's forbidding exterior is like that of another wizard, the one
                                    from Oz. And in Wolfe's case, too, the truth comes out when the
                                    curtain is pulled open a bit and we get a glimpse of his romantic,
                                    quixotic, sentimental side.





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                                  • marshvoice@aol.com
                                    I have to say that for me it is Wolfe. I fell in love with the world Wolfe set up for himself. In fact, I wish I could organize my life to live like Wolfe
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                      I have to say that for me it is Wolfe.  I fell in love with the world Wolfe set up for himself.  In fact, I wish I could organize my life to live like Wolfe does.  I'd love to have an "Archie" to do all the footwork while I pursued my reading, culinary and gardening enjoyments.  I admit I found myself having a crush on Archie, (I think TH has something to do with that!) I found myself comparing Wolfe with my father.  And any time there was a female that he didn't just tolerate, but actually found admirable, I found myself wishing I could get his approval.  I suppose that's pretty weird, but I think if Archie wasn't around, Wolfe would hire another to fill that position.  We readers might not enjoy such a change in personnel, but Wolfe will on.  It really is the world according to Wolfe as told by Archie.
                                      IMHO
                                      -Traffic Jam
                                    • Dan and JoAnn Farmer
                                      Exactly... Plus the interaction between the two makes it what it is. A wonderful place to break out of the humdrum and spend a little time. Dan ... From:
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                        Exactly... Plus the interaction between the two makes it what it is.  A wonderful place to break out of the humdrum and spend a little time.
                                         
                                        Dan
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 10:19 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [NeroWolfe] A Question

                                        I have to say that for me it is Wolfe.  I fell in love with the world Wolfe set up for himself.  In fact, I wish I could organize my life to live like Wolfe does.  I'd love to have an "Archie" to do all the footwork while I pursued my reading, culinary and gardening enjoyments.  I admit I found myself having a crush on Archie, (I think TH has something to do with that!) I found myself comparing Wolfe with my father.  And any time there was a female that he didn't just tolerate, but actually found admirable, I found myself wishing I could get his approval.  I suppose that's pretty weird, but I think if Archie wasn't around, Wolfe would hire another to fill that position.  We readers might not enjoy such a change in personnel, but Wolfe will on.  It really is the world according to Wolfe as told by Archie.
                                        IMHO
                                        -Traffic Jam
                                      • Lovin' Babe!
                                        ... Oh, well said! I said I was an Archiephile, but it s not the man about town that I m fond of, it s the one that interacts with Wolfe that intrigues me. I
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 14, 2006
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                                          David McClelland wrote:
                                          >
                                          > For me, Wolfe is the draw. Of course, I enjoy Archie immensely. The
                                          > difference is, Archie is right there, telling you what he thinks and
                                          > feels, whereas Wolfe takes work. Despite Archie's highly vaunted
                                          > memory, his interpretations are by no means gospel; in fact, there are
                                          > times when Stout winks and tells you to look beyond what Archie says.
                                          > Wolfe's forbidding exterior is like that of another wizard, the one
                                          > from Oz. And in Wolfe's case, too, the truth comes out when the
                                          > curtain is pulled open a bit and we get a glimpse of his romantic,
                                          > quixotic, sentimental side.

                                          Oh, well said!

                                          I said I was an Archiephile, but it's not the man about town
                                          that I'm fond of, it's the one that interacts with Wolfe
                                          that intrigues me. I still can't get Archie out of front
                                          and center, because he is the lens of the Corpus. I admit,
                                          however, that when that lens shines on Wolfe, it's the most
                                          fun.

                                          Sometimes Archie sees Wolfe with great clarity and reports
                                          him honestly, at other times he's led far astray either by
                                          Wolfe himself or by his own blind spots. There are times
                                          when he doesn't understand Wolfe at all, but his description
                                          is so good that we do -- which also has the advantage of
                                          letting us occasionally feel superior to Archie. And of
                                          course, sometimes Archie exaggerates from boredom,
                                          exasperation, or just plain Puckishness. But whether he
                                          gives us a glimpse or we get one in spite of him, he always
                                          reports. And what he mainly reports is Wolfe. I probably
                                          wouldn't listen to him otherwise.

                                          P.S. Wolfe as the Wizard of Oz -- I rather like that,
                                          except Wolfe does want us to pay attention to the man behind
                                          the curtain. Wolfe the Anti-Oz.

                                          --
                                          Lovin' Babe! aka Jessie
                                          O! Give Wolfe a home, so he won't have to roam...
                                          Just Say Pfui! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pfight/
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