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Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek...)

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  • faterson2001
    I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman s Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses contact as a
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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      I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's prequel.

      I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

      --
      Alex.
      www.stout.aboq



      --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
    • John Withrow
      Alex Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses imply and infer in RG s prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical? If RG actually did that, it s
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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        Alex

        Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses “imply” and “infer” in RG’s prequel?  Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?

        If RG actually did that, it’s astounding.

        - John

         

        From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of faterson2001
        Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
        To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek...)

         

         

        I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's prequel.

        I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

        --
        Alex.
        www.stout.aboq

        --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]

      • faterson2001
        Unfortunately, John, that s no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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          Unfortunately, John, that's no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):

          << "I did not mean to infer, sir, that you might be intimidated by Inspector Cramer," Wolfe said. "Rather, my point is that the time has come to show him our cards. [...]" >>

          And here is Alan Vanneman, in chapter 3 of "Fame Will Tell" (48% into the trilogy), in a dialogue between Archie & Wolfe:

          << "[...] Now that we've got a client, have you got any instructions?"

          "Yes. Contact Saul. [...]" >>

          Now, I don't want to get too upset about this, but they are major gaffes for pastiche writers. I still think Goldsborough's prequel is solid, and Vanneman's "Invitation to a Shooting Party" can compete with the most enjoyable original Wolfe novelettes. But this, perhaps, illustrates the importance of belonging to online discussion groups such as this one. Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer", or using "contact" as a verb. On the original Wolfe list, there was even a contributor nicknamed "Contact verb". :-D

          After Vanneman, I'll be moving on to Glenn Dixon's pastiches. Dixon, I believe, used to participate in the online debates, so he is less likely to have perpetrated major verbal blunders. (I noticed different ones while casually flipping through Dixon's longest Wolfe story: the author seems to have lost count of his chapters along the way -- some chapter numbers are skipped, while others appear twice.)

          --
          Alex.
          www.stout.aboq.org



          --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "John Withrow" <john@...> wrote:
          >
          > Alex
          > Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses "imply" and "infer" in RG's
          > prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?
          > If RG actually did that, it's astounding.
          > - John
          >
          > From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of faterson2001
          > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
          > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie
          > Goodwin & Snap Malek...)
          >
          >
          > I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about
          > halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses
          > "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger
          > goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's
          > prequel.
          >
          > I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.
          >
          > --
          > Alex.
          > www.stout.aboq
          >
          > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nerowolfe%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          > "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero
          > Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or
          > "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
          >
        • Robert
          I enjoyed the first two pastiches by Glenn Dixon quite a bit. But I found the third to be completely unbelievable and, quite simply, terrible. Without giving
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 18, 2012
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            I enjoyed the first two pastiches by Glenn Dixon quite a bit. But I found the third to be completely unbelievable and, quite simply, terrible. Without giving anything away, the basic premise at the beginning was beyond fantastic. I've re-read his first two a couple of times but will never revisit the last one.



            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" wrote:


            Unfortunately, John, that's no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):



            And here is Alan Vanneman, in chapter 3 of "Fame Will Tell" (48% into the trilogy), in a dialogue between Archie & Wolfe:


            "Yes. Contact Saul. [...]"

            Now, I don't want to get too upset about this, but they are major gaffes for pastiche writers. I still think Goldsborough's prequel is solid, and Vanneman's "Invitation to a Shooting Party" can compete with the most enjoyable original Wolfe novelettes. But this, perhaps, illustrates the importance of belonging to online discussion groups such as this one. Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer", or using "contact" as a verb. On the original Wolfe list, there was even a contributor nicknamed "Contact verb". :-D

            After Vanneman, I'll be moving on to Glenn Dixon's pastiches. Dixon, I believe, used to participate in the online debates, so he is less likely to have perpetrated major verbal blunders. (I noticed different ones while casually flipping through Dixon's longest Wolfe story: the author seems to have lost count of his chapters along the way -- some chapter numbers are skipped, while others appear twice.)

            --
            Alex.
            www.stout.aboq.org



            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "John Withrow" wrote:

            Alex
            Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses "imply" and "infer" in RG's
            prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?
            If RG actually did that, it's astounding.
            - John

            From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of faterson2001
            Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
            To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie
            Goodwin & Snap Malek...)


            I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about
            halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses
            "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger
            goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's
            prequel.

            I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

            --
            Alex.
            www.stout.aboq

            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com ,
            "faterson2001" wrote:

            I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero
            Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or
            "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
          • Dorothy
            Indeed, confusing imply and infer is an elementary error, one addressed specifically in Strunk & White. So, imagine my surprise a week or so ago when I
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 21, 2013
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              Indeed, confusing "imply" and "infer" is an elementary error, one addressed specifically in Strunk & White.

              So, imagine my surprise a week or so ago when I found this very error in Chapter 16 of THE RUBBER BAND.

              Wolfe is talking to the city officials when he says, "...You put on an exhibition of your cunning at cross-examination in an effort to infer that she has tried to blackmail Lord Clivers ..."

              So even our wonderful Rex Stout was not perfect, nor were his copy editors.

              Parenthetically, I'm re-reading the Corpus, chronologically, this year. I finished Some Buried Caesar last night, and will start Over My Dead Body today. As always I'm amazed at how well the stories and characters hold up, and how effectively Stout captures both the time in which the stories were written, and universal human characteristics and foibles. It's great to have the stories available for my Kindle so I don't have to read my hardbacks which, alas, given that they weren't manufactured with very good materials, don't hold up so well.

              Interestingly, the Kindle copy of Some Buried Caesar also contains the text of The Golden Spiders! This is not documented on the Amazon page for the book. I knew I was getting toward the end of CAES, but was only at the half-way point according to the Kindle gauge. When I got to the end of CAES, GOLD started right up. I need to figure out how to change the metadata in the Kindle file so I don't buy GOLD when I get to it in the Corpus.

              Cheers!

              Dorothy Young


              In criticizing Alan Vanneman's pastiches,
              --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
              Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer"
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