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Re: [New post] Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek– Twins Separated at Birth?

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  • Ellen rappaport
    I rec;d this today and thought the group might find it interesting. Ellen From: Robert Goldsborough To: ellenrappaport@yahoo.com
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 14, 2012
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      I rec;d this today and thought the group might find it interesting.
      Ellen

      From: Robert Goldsborough <comment-reply@...>
      To: ellenrappaport@...
      Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:44 AM
      Subject: [New post] Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek–Twins Separated at Birth?
      Karen Syed posted: "[caption id="attachment_304" align="alignleft" width="186"] Click Cover to Buy Now![/caption] Since I began writing the Steve "Snap" Malek Chicago historical mysteries for Echelon Press nearly a decade ago, several readers have commented that the brash M"
      Respond to this post by replying above this line

      New post on Robert Goldsborough

      Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek–Twins Separated at Birth?

      by Karen Syed
      Archie Meets Nero Wolfe by Robert Goldsborough
      Click Cover to Buy Now!
      Since I began writing the Steve "Snap" Malek Chicago historical mysteries for Echelon Press nearly a decade ago, several readers have commented that the brash Malek, a police reporter for the Chicago Tribune, bore a decided similarity to the equally brash Archie Goodwin, the narrator of the Nero Wolfe stories and Wolfe's right-hand man.
      Not surprising, because before publishing my five Malek books, I had written seven Nero Wolfe novels in the 1980s and '90s, continuing the series created by the late Rex Stout. Had I purposely created Malek in Goodwin's image, these readers asked? The answer: I'm not altogether sure.
      Probably somewhere in my subconscious, I wanted to at least partially clone Archie Goodwin, whom I feel to be one of the most colorful and memorable characters in the history of American detective fiction. In Snap Malek, there are many parallels to Archie, along with marked differences.
      Among the similarities: Both Archie and Snap are self-assured to the point of cockiness. Both are street-smart as well as steadfast in the face of danger. Both tend in their headstrong attitudes to rile their superiors–Nero Wolfe and the Chicago Tribune, respectively. And both have an ambivalent attitude toward the major law officer in their stories–New York Police Inspector Cramer and Chicago Police Detective Chief Fergus Fahey. (I also have been accused of fashioning Fahey into a carbon copy of Cramer; let me mull over that charge.)
      As to some differences: Snap has battled alcoholism, Archie drinks only in moderation. Snap is married (for the second time), Archie is a bachelor, albeit with a longtime girlfriend, Lily Rowan. Snap lives in a suburban Chicago home, Archie dwells in that legendary brownstone in the heart of Manhattan.
      Now that I am back to writing about Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin after an 18-year hiatus ("Archie Meets Nero Wolfe"), I wonder if readers who knew only of my Snap Malek stories will pick up this new book and ask me: Did you model this Archie Goodwin fellow on Snap Malek?
      Karen Syed | December 14, 2012 at 10:41 am | Categories: Blog Posts, Bob's Writing, Nero Wolfe Books, This and That | URL: http://wp.me/p16FMI-4T
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      Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser:
      http://robertgoldsborough.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/archie-goodwin-snap-malek-twins-separated-at-birth/

    • faterson2001
      I m currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman s threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 14, 2012
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        I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. Archie in the prequel seemed a bit subdued, less lively compared to the original. Maybe Archie is, after all, modeled primarily after Snap Malek? ;-)

        Not to hijack this thread, but I find the first of those Vanneman stories, set in 1935 and titled "Invitation to a Shooting Party", outstanding, and on a par with the best Nero Wolfe novelettes written by Rex Stout. The writing seemed indistinguishable to me. In the second story I'm reading now, Vanneman confidently moves Archie & Wolfe to the 21st century, with some bold but plausible innovations: Wolfe has a $30,000 DVD player and projection screen in his office; the greenhouse on the brownstone roof is corroding and will need to be replaced for upwards of $6 million, forcing Wolfe to work more than he would like; and a lady apprentice chef (!) comes to assist Fritz in cooking three times a week. Below are the links to Vanneman's threesome again; I find it very interesting to compare them next to Robert Goldsborough (and I'll move on to Glenn Dixon afterwards).

        ALAN VANNEMAN: _Three Bullets: A New Nero Wolfe Threesome_
        * for Kindle: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/53blp2opo53fplj/Three_Bullets.mobi?dl=1
        * for iPad/iPhone/Android:
        https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s2f8uj0xc2544fi/Three_Bullets.epub?dl=1
        * original location:
        http://avanneman.blogspot.ca/2008/07/three-bullets-new-nero-wolfe-threesome.html

        --
        Alex.
        www.stout.aboq.org
      • faterson2001
        I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman s Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses contact as a
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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          I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's prequel.

          I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

          --
          Alex.
          www.stout.aboq



          --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
        • John Withrow
          Alex Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses imply and infer in RG s prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical? If RG actually did that, it s
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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            Alex

            Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses “imply” and “infer” in RG’s prequel?  Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?

            If RG actually did that, it’s astounding.

            - John

             

            From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of faterson2001
            Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
            To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie Goodwin & Snap Malek...)

             

             

            I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's prequel.

            I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

            --
            Alex.
            www.stout.aboq

            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]

          • faterson2001
            Unfortunately, John, that s no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 17, 2012
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              Unfortunately, John, that's no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):

              << "I did not mean to infer, sir, that you might be intimidated by Inspector Cramer," Wolfe said. "Rather, my point is that the time has come to show him our cards. [...]" >>

              And here is Alan Vanneman, in chapter 3 of "Fame Will Tell" (48% into the trilogy), in a dialogue between Archie & Wolfe:

              << "[...] Now that we've got a client, have you got any instructions?"

              "Yes. Contact Saul. [...]" >>

              Now, I don't want to get too upset about this, but they are major gaffes for pastiche writers. I still think Goldsborough's prequel is solid, and Vanneman's "Invitation to a Shooting Party" can compete with the most enjoyable original Wolfe novelettes. But this, perhaps, illustrates the importance of belonging to online discussion groups such as this one. Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer", or using "contact" as a verb. On the original Wolfe list, there was even a contributor nicknamed "Contact verb". :-D

              After Vanneman, I'll be moving on to Glenn Dixon's pastiches. Dixon, I believe, used to participate in the online debates, so he is less likely to have perpetrated major verbal blunders. (I noticed different ones while casually flipping through Dixon's longest Wolfe story: the author seems to have lost count of his chapters along the way -- some chapter numbers are skipped, while others appear twice.)

              --
              Alex.
              www.stout.aboq.org



              --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "John Withrow" <john@...> wrote:
              >
              > Alex
              > Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses "imply" and "infer" in RG's
              > prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?
              > If RG actually did that, it's astounding.
              > - John
              >
              > From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of faterson2001
              > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
              > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie
              > Goodwin & Snap Malek...)
              >
              >
              > I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about
              > halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses
              > "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger
              > goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's
              > prequel.
              >
              > I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.
              >
              > --
              > Alex.
              > www.stout.aboq
              >
              > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nerowolfe%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              > "faterson2001" <a@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero
              > Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or
              > "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
              >
            • Robert
              I enjoyed the first two pastiches by Glenn Dixon quite a bit. But I found the third to be completely unbelievable and, quite simply, terrible. Without giving
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 18, 2012
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                I enjoyed the first two pastiches by Glenn Dixon quite a bit. But I found the third to be completely unbelievable and, quite simply, terrible. Without giving anything away, the basic premise at the beginning was beyond fantastic. I've re-read his first two a couple of times but will never revisit the last one.



                --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "faterson2001" wrote:


                Unfortunately, John, that's no hypothesis, but a cold fact. Here is the full quote from chapter 19 (61% into the book):



                And here is Alan Vanneman, in chapter 3 of "Fame Will Tell" (48% into the trilogy), in a dialogue between Archie & Wolfe:


                "Yes. Contact Saul. [...]"

                Now, I don't want to get too upset about this, but they are major gaffes for pastiche writers. I still think Goldsborough's prequel is solid, and Vanneman's "Invitation to a Shooting Party" can compete with the most enjoyable original Wolfe novelettes. But this, perhaps, illustrates the importance of belonging to online discussion groups such as this one. Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer", or using "contact" as a verb. On the original Wolfe list, there was even a contributor nicknamed "Contact verb". :-D

                After Vanneman, I'll be moving on to Glenn Dixon's pastiches. Dixon, I believe, used to participate in the online debates, so he is less likely to have perpetrated major verbal blunders. (I noticed different ones while casually flipping through Dixon's longest Wolfe story: the author seems to have lost count of his chapters along the way -- some chapter numbers are skipped, while others appear twice.)

                --
                Alex.
                www.stout.aboq.org



                --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "John Withrow" wrote:

                Alex
                Are you actually saying that Wolfe confuses "imply" and "infer" in RG's
                prequel? Or merely mentioning a hypothetical?
                If RG actually did that, it's astounding.
                - John

                From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of faterson2001
                Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 10:47 AM
                To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: Alan Vanneman's Wolfe Threesome (was: Archie
                Goodwin & Snap Malek...)


                I have some news to report on Alan Vanneman's Wolfe threesome... about
                halfway through the second story, Wolfe commits the unthinkable: he uses
                "contact" as a verb! :-o :-o :-o Oh, my... That's probably an even bigger
                goof than Wolfe confusing "imply" and "infer" in Robert Goldsborough's
                prequel.

                I'll post a full review of the three Vanneman stories when I'm finished.

                --
                Alex.
                www.stout.aboq

                --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com ,
                "faterson2001" wrote:

                I'm currently only about halfway through Alan Vanneman's threesome of Nero
                Wolfe stories, but I find the Archie in them to be more true-to-life (or
                "true-to-Stout") than Archie in the prequel. [...]
              • Dorothy
                Indeed, confusing imply and infer is an elementary error, one addressed specifically in Strunk & White. So, imagine my surprise a week or so ago when I
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 21, 2013
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                  Indeed, confusing "imply" and "infer" is an elementary error, one addressed specifically in Strunk & White.

                  So, imagine my surprise a week or so ago when I found this very error in Chapter 16 of THE RUBBER BAND.

                  Wolfe is talking to the city officials when he says, "...You put on an exhibition of your cunning at cross-examination in an effort to infer that she has tried to blackmail Lord Clivers ..."

                  So even our wonderful Rex Stout was not perfect, nor were his copy editors.

                  Parenthetically, I'm re-reading the Corpus, chronologically, this year. I finished Some Buried Caesar last night, and will start Over My Dead Body today. As always I'm amazed at how well the stories and characters hold up, and how effectively Stout captures both the time in which the stories were written, and universal human characteristics and foibles. It's great to have the stories available for my Kindle so I don't have to read my hardbacks which, alas, given that they weren't manufactured with very good materials, don't hold up so well.

                  Interestingly, the Kindle copy of Some Buried Caesar also contains the text of The Golden Spiders! This is not documented on the Amazon page for the book. I knew I was getting toward the end of CAES, but was only at the half-way point according to the Kindle gauge. When I got to the end of CAES, GOLD started right up. I need to figure out how to change the metadata in the Kindle file so I don't buy GOLD when I get to it in the Corpus.

                  Cheers!

                  Dorothy Young


                  In criticizing Alan Vanneman's pastiches,
                  --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" wrote:
                  Anyone who has followed these online Wolfean discussions even in passing or as a lurker over the years, would have been sufficiently forewarned against confusing "imply" or "infer"
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