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some buried caesar

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  • wayne holland
    came across the term Crawnley town suit in this story ... can t even google it, if you can believe that ... anyone, anyone, anyone, bueller?
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 4 10:09 AM
      came across the term "Crawnley town suit" in this story ...
      can't even google it, if you can believe that ...
      anyone, anyone, anyone, bueller?
    • Ken Wildman
      Stout often made up product names. No one made a Heron car, but Wolfe had one. ... Rusterman aka Ken Wildman
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 4 10:40 AM

        Stout often made up product names.  No one made a Heron car, but Wolfe had one.

        :)

        Rusterman
        aka Ken Wildman

        On Apr 4, 2011 1:11 PM, "wayne holland" <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
        > came across the term "Crawnley town suit" in this story ...
        > can't even google it, if you can believe that ...
        > anyone, anyone, anyone, bueller?
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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      • wayne holland
        ah haaaa ... i see thank you
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 4 6:50 PM
          ah haaaa ... i see thank you

          --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Ken Wildman <k-wildman@...> wrote:
          >
          > Stout often made up product names. No one made a Heron car, but Wolfe had
          > one.
          >
          > :)
          >
          > Rusterman
          > aka Ken Wildman
          > On Apr 4, 2011 1:11 PM, "wayne holland" <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
          > > came across the term "Crawnley town suit" in this story ...
          > > can't even google it, if you can believe that ...
          > > anyone, anyone, anyone, bueller?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • wayne holland
          i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can t believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it s in chapters 15 and 16 and
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 10 12:36 PM
            i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
          • Bill Parker
            Well, I don t recall that this happened in the book...but here s how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 10 8:03 PM
              Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it:  the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes.  The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene.  Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot.  I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison.  This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's.  Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have.  And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...

              Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
               

              To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
              From: stanleywholland@...
              Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
              Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar

               
              i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.


            • silviazaclis@uol.com.br
              When I read the book, I noticed the same flaw . Even if the police could - technically speaking- prove that the firgerprints were Archie s, there wasn t
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 11 7:12 AM
                When I read the book, I noticed the same "flaw". Even if the police could - technically speaking- prove that the
                firgerprints were Archie's, there wasn't enough time for that between the police finding the body and the cop talking to Archie. E prefer to think that the cop was simply lying, trying to trick Archie.
                The most interesting thing about this book is the beginning of the relationship between Archie and Lilly Rowan.
                Silvia


                Em 11/04/2011 00:03, Bill Parker < hemirr@... > escreveu:
                 

                Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it:  the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes.  The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene.  Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot.  I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison.  This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's.  Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have.  And one other possibility, which we should discount s ince we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...

                Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                 


                To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                From: stanleywholland@...
                Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar

                 
                i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were bec ause Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.



              • wayne holland
                this is not the way it was presented at all ... the cops are talking with the guy who had walked in on Archie while he as talking with the couple at the place
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 11 10:29 AM
                  this is not the way it was presented at all ...
                  the cops are talking with the guy who had walked in on Archie while he as talking with the couple at the place where the body was discovered ...
                  he spots Archie and points him out to the cops, who immediately approach Archie and begin grilling him ... there is no mention whatsoever that they took Archie's fingerprints at that time
                  ... if you have a copy of the book, re-read chapters 15 and 16

                  --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                  >
                  > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: stanleywholland@...
                  > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                  > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                  >
                • wayne holland
                  here it is verbatim from the book: Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 11 11:25 AM
                    here it is verbatim from the book:

                    Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.

                    (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)

                    now for the part about the fingerprints ...

                    "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"

                    (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)

                    --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                    >
                    > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: stanleywholland@...
                    > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                    > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                    >
                  • Joe Suggs
                    I don t believe he was trying to argue with you, Wayne. As I read it he is postulating how Stout could have written it. Here s his first sentence again:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 11 11:59 AM
                      I don't believe he was trying to argue with you, Wayne.  As I read it he is postulating how Stout could have written it.  Here's his first sentence again:

                      "Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it..."

                      (Emphasis on "could" in original).

                      Best,

                      j  d  s




                      From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                      To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 2:25:42 PM
                      Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar

                       

                      here it is verbatim from the book:

                      Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.

                      (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)

                      now for the part about the fingerprints ...

                      "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"

                      (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)

                      --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                      >
                      > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: stanleywholland@...
                      > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                      > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                      >

                    • Bob Byrd
                      They had Archie s fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12. The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 11 12:00 PM
                        They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.

                        The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 

                        --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:

                        From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                        Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                        To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM

                         

                        here it is verbatim from the book:

                        Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.

                        (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)

                        now for the part about the fingerprints ...

                        "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"

                        (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)

                        --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                        >
                        > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: stanleywholland@...
                        > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                        > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                        >

                      • wayne holland
                        what? he gave them his fingerprints? i ll have to check that out. if so, i take it back, all of it. i just don t remember Archie giving them his fingerprints.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 11 1:33 PM
                          what? he gave them his fingerprints? i'll have to check that out. if so, i take it back, all of it. i just don't remember Archie giving them his fingerprints.

                          --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bob Byrd <bbyrd8@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.
                          >
                          > The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                          > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                          > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > here it is verbatim from the book:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for
                          > it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > > From: stanleywholland@
                          >
                          > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                          >
                          > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were
                          > because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Bob Byrd
                          from early in Chapter 12: Osgood s collision with Waddell and Captain Barrow had been brief, for it had ended by the time I got back. The captain was
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 11 1:37 PM
                            from early in Chapter 12:
                            Osgood's collision with Waddell and Captain Barrow had been
                            brief, for it had ended by the time I got back. The captain was
                            collecting fingerprints from everyone who had been at Pratt's
                            place the night before, without disclosing how dire his intent
                            might be, and since Wolfe had already obliged I figured I might as
                            well.

                            --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:

                            From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                            Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                            To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 3:33 PM

                             

                            what? he gave them his fingerprints? i'll have to check that out. if so, i take it back, all of it. i just don't remember Archie giving them his fingerprints.

                            --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bob Byrd <bbyrd8@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.
                            >
                            > The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 
                            >
                            > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                            > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                            > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > here it is verbatim from the book:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for
                            > it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > From: stanleywholland@
                            >
                            > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                            >
                            > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were
                            > because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                            >
                            > >
                            >

                          • Bob Byrd
                            Don t feel bad Wayne, I had a vague recollection but had to look it up myself...I just knew Stout couldn t blunder like that.  :) ... From: wayne holland
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 11 1:38 PM
                              Don't feel bad Wayne, I had a vague recollection but had to look it up myself...I just knew Stout couldn't blunder like that.  :)

                              --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:

                              From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                              Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                              To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 3:33 PM

                               

                              what? he gave them his fingerprints? i'll have to check that out. if so, i take it back, all of it. i just don't remember Archie giving them his fingerprints.

                              --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bob Byrd <bbyrd8@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.
                              >
                              > The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                              > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                              > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > here it is verbatim from the book:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for
                              > it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > > From: stanleywholland@
                              >
                              > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                              >
                              > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were
                              > because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                              >
                              > >
                              >

                            • wayne holland
                              yep, you re right. here is the part: The captain was collecting fingerprints from everyone who had been at Pratt s place the night before, without disclosing
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 11 1:46 PM
                                yep, you're right. here is the part:

                                The captain was collecting fingerprints from everyone who had been at Pratt's place the night before, without disclosing how dire his intent might be, and since Wolfe had already obliged I figured I might as well.

                                but i no sooner concede this point than another issue occurs to me. they were carrying these fingerprints around with them? when they received the call that a body had been found did they automatically assume that it was someone who had been at Pratt's (or Osgood's) place, someone who might be implicated in the first murder? i would think that fingerprints would be kept on file at the courthouse, not being carried around by the sheriff or the DA, unless the person who called in had taken the wallet from the body to look for some ID and had given that info to the sheriff's office at the time they placed the call. but that introduces a complication of its own. if someone else handled the wallet their prints would also be on it, quite possibly (very likely i think) smudging Archie's.

                                --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bob Byrd <bbyrd8@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.
                                >
                                > The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                                > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                                > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > here it is verbatim from the book:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for
                                > it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > > From: stanleywholland@
                                >
                                > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                                >
                                > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were
                                > because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Bill Parker
                                I might very well ask possible suspects or involved people to give me prints, and keep the cards with me or at least handy during an investigation. These
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 11 3:38 PM
                                  I might very well ask possible suspects or involved people to give me prints, and keep the cards with me or at least handy during an investigation.  These days, if I arrest someone, their prints are going to be scanned into the system by having them lay their mitts on a reader; the paper cards are just a tool any more for investigations.  (Paper cards are still taken and mailed in for gun permits, machine gun purchases, etc)

                                  Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                                   

                                  To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: stanleywholland@...
                                  Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:46:13 +0000
                                  Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar

                                   
                                  yep, you're right. here is the part:

                                  The captain was collecting fingerprints from everyone who had been at Pratt's place the night before, without disclosing how dire his intent might be, and since Wolfe had already obliged I figured I might as well.

                                  but i no sooner concede this point than another issue occurs to me. they were carrying these fingerprints around with them? when they received the call that a body had been found did they automatically assume that it was someone who had been at Pratt's (or Osgood's) place, someone who might be implicated in the first murder? i would think that fingerprints would be kept on file at the courthouse, not being carried around by the sheriff or the DA, unless the person who called in had taken the wallet from the body to look for some ID and had given that info to the sheriff's office at the time they placed the call. but that introduces a complication of its own. if someone else handled the wallet their prints would also be on it, quite possibly (very likely i think) smudging Archie's.

                                  --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bob Byrd <bbyrd8@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > They had Archie's fingerprints already because he gave them to them at the beginning of chapter 12.
                                  >
                                  > The body was discovered at least as early as 3:00 as it was discussed at that time while they were eating lunch.  Barrow & Co. didn't find Archie and confront him until nearly 5:00.  I would think in 2 hours they'd have time to get some preliminary prints and compare them to those they'd taken of the folks involved in the Osgood case. 
                                  >
                                  > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                                  > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                                  > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 1:25 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > here it is verbatim from the book:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for
                                  > it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > > From: stanleywholland@
                                  >
                                  > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                                  >
                                  > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were
                                  > because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • E.J. Ford
                                  That is a speculative question, Wayne. The cop might be bluffing. EJ From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayne
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 12 1:30 PM

                                    That is a speculative question, Wayne.  The cop might be bluffing.

                                     

                                    EJ

                                     

                                    From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayne holland
                                    Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:26 PM
                                    To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar

                                     

                                     

                                    here it is verbatim from the book:

                                    Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.

                                    (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)

                                    now for the part about the fingerprints ...

                                    "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"

                                    (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of the police and DA)

                                    --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Bill Parker <hemirr@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it, I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it, but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the wallet...
                                    >
                                    > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > From: stanleywholland@...
                                    > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                                    > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16 and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it. no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                                    >

                                  • briarpatch_39272
                                    Nice to have a police detective to tell us how it might be done. And I agree with Bob. No way Stout messed that up. He was such a pro. And so many of us
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 13 6:03 PM
                                      Nice to have a police detective to tell us how it might be done. And I agree with Bob. No way Stout messed that up. He was such a pro. And so many of us have read these books so many times, it would really be hard for all of us to have missed such a big blunder. There had to be an explanation. I love to see these questions though. It brings people out of 'lurk mode' for a bit.

                                      Charlene


                                      --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, "E.J. Ford" <Edseljoe@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > That is a speculative question, Wayne. The cop might be bluffing.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > EJ
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                      > Of wayne holland
                                      > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:26 PM
                                      > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [NeroWolfe] Re: some buried caesar
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > here it is verbatim from the book:
                                      >
                                      > Down the aisle maybe ten paces he stood pointing, and he was unquestionably
                                      > the lanky strawhandler in overalls whom I had last seen in the Holstein shed
                                      > three hours previously. At his right hand stood Captain Barrow of the state
                                      > police, and at his left District Attorney Waddell. As I gazed at them with
                                      > my brow wrinkled in displeasure, they moved forward.
                                      >
                                      > (he had last seen the strawhandler only 3 hours previously)
                                      >
                                      > now for the part about the fingerprints ...
                                      >
                                      > "Then will you explain how it happens that an empty brown leather wallet
                                      > found in his pocket was covered with your fingerprints, inside and outside?"
                                      >
                                      > (i repeat my original question: how in the hell did they know that it was
                                      > Archie's fingerprints on the wallet only minutes after they had found the
                                      > body? Archie clearly said that it been only 3 hours before that he had seen
                                      > the strawhandler, and here 3 hours later he sees him again in the company of
                                      > the police and DA)
                                      >
                                      > --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nerowolfe%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill
                                      > Parker <hemirr@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Well, I don't recall that this happened in the book...but here's how it
                                      > COULD have happened if Stout had written it: the latent fingerprints can be
                                      > lifted off a smooth (not heavy leather grain but a smooth leather) object
                                      > within minutes. The police could have taken Archies fingerprints on a card
                                      > right at the scene. Any competent police detective can make a reasonable
                                      > comparison on the spot. I used to carry both a latent fingerprint kit (with
                                      > both light and dark powders) and a Sirchie inked pad and supply of
                                      > fingerprint cards in my duty bag, before the present days of the automated
                                      > fingerprint readers and instant nationwide comparison. This stuff has been
                                      > around a long time, and although I'm not quite THAT old, I believe Sirchie
                                      > was making such kits in the 30's. Again, I don't recall that they did it,
                                      > I'm just saying they could have. And one other possibility, which we should
                                      > discount since we know Achie is pretty sharp and would never fall for it,
                                      > but as the US Supreme Court has affirmed several times, the police on the
                                      > scene could have merely lied and SAID they had Archies fingerprints on the
                                      > wallet...
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nerowolfe%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > From: stanleywholland@
                                      > > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:36:14 +0000
                                      > > Subject: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > i just came across a rather egregious unlikelihood in this book. i can't
                                      > believe i did not notice it at the first reading. it's in chapters 15 and 16
                                      > and concerns the body that was discovered at the fairgrounds, covered up
                                      > with straw. Archie only reports the body to Wolfe ... only moments after he
                                      > discovers it ... within an hour or so the body is discovered by others and
                                      > there is a bit of fuss over it. the police are called and arrive on the
                                      > scene and begin to question people about it. one of the people questioned is
                                      > a worker who happened to walk in on Archie (and a couple that he was talking
                                      > to) at the location of the stashed body. this worker points out Archie to
                                      > the police, who immediately approach him to ask him what he knows about the
                                      > matter. Archie of course says he knows nothing about it. now here is where
                                      > it gets funky. in the course of the conversation, the cop tells Archie that
                                      > his fingerprints are on the deceased's wallet, which they were because
                                      > Archie had handled the wallet the day before. but here's the thing. this was
                                      > in 1937. hell, even today you wouldn't know that someone's fingerprints were
                                      > on something within 30 minutes of finding the object (the wallet). this
                                      > stuff has to be taken to a lab. but they told him within moments of getting
                                      > their hands on the victim's wallet that his fingerprints were all over it.
                                      > no way! in 1937? ain't gonna happen.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • wayne holland
                                      the most interesting thing? i think it s the best thing. i can t tell you how glad i am to be past these two titles (Too Many Cooks & Some Buried Caesar).
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 22 8:24 AM
                                        the most "interesting" thing? i think it's the best thing.

                                        i can't tell you how glad i am to be past these two titles (Too Many Cooks & Some Buried Caesar). i'm going through the corpus for the second time and doing some serious editing of my ebooks. i think i've said it before. i just don't like Wolfe traipsing around a county fair in upstate NY or the Kanawha Spa in WV. it just doesn't feel like he belongs there. i'm about halfway through with Over My Dead Body, and I gotta tell ya, it's good to be back inside the brownstone. i'm dreading Death of a Dude and i may not even bother with The Black Mountain again.

                                        BTW, on a completely different subject ... have you noticed the hyphenation of the words "tonight" and "today"? i have done a lot of reading and i honestly cannot remember ever seeing these words hyphenated in any other work. Hemingway wrote during this time. I've never noticed his writings to contain "to-day" or "to-night"

                                        was there actually a time when these words were hyphenated like this? does anyone have a copy of a 1930s English Usage book? i would be very interested in learning more about this.
                                      • Bob Byrd
                                        I wonder if it s just a mystery thing.  I ve seen that in 1930s Agatha Christie, Ellery Queen and even Hardy Boys.  I also just looked at a couple of
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 22 8:42 AM
                                          I wonder if it's just a "mystery" thing.  I've seen that in 1930s Agatha Christie, Ellery Queen and even Hardy Boys.  I also just looked at a couple of vintage Nancy Drew books and they have to-day and to-morrow.  This book also refers to a black woman as a "charming negress".   

                                          I also notice that the older books spell "Cooperate" as "Coöperate" and coed as coëd.  

                                          --- On Fri, 4/22/11, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:

                                          From: wayne holland <stanleywholland@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [NeroWolfe] some buried caesar
                                          To: nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 10:24 AM

                                           


                                          the most "interesting" thing? i think it's the best thing.

                                          i can't tell you how glad i am to be past these two titles (Too Many Cooks & Some Buried Caesar). i'm going through the corpus for the second time and doing some serious editing of my ebooks. i think i've said it before. i just don't like Wolfe traipsing around a county fair in upstate NY or the Kanawha Spa in WV. it just doesn't feel like he belongs there. i'm about halfway through with Over My Dead Body, and I gotta tell ya, it's good to be back inside the brownstone. i'm dreading Death of a Dude and i may not even bother with The Black Mountain again.

                                          BTW, on a completely different subject ... have you noticed the hyphenation of the words "tonight" and "today"? i have done a lot of reading and i honestly cannot remember ever seeing these words hyphenated in any other work. Hemingway wrote during this time. I've never noticed his writings to contain "to-day" or "to-night"

                                          was there actually a time when these words were hyphenated like this? does anyone have a copy of a 1930s English Usage book? i would be very interested in learning more about this.

                                        • Jenna Welch
                                          Are you referring to the e-books with the to-night and to-day? Could it be a leftover from a line break in the print edition? (I know nothing about
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 22 8:43 AM
                                            Are you referring to the e-books with the to-night and to-day?  Could it be a leftover from a line break in the print edition?  (I know nothing about e-books...)

                                            On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:24 AM, wayne holland <stanleywholland@...> wrote:
                                             


                                            the most "interesting" thing? i think it's the best thing.

                                            i can't tell you how glad i am to be past these two titles (Too Many Cooks & Some Buried Caesar). i'm going through the corpus for the second time and doing some serious editing of my ebooks. i think i've said it before. i just don't like Wolfe traipsing around a county fair in upstate NY or the Kanawha Spa in WV. it just doesn't feel like he belongs there. i'm about halfway through with Over My Dead Body, and I gotta tell ya, it's good to be back inside the brownstone. i'm dreading Death of a Dude and i may not even bother with The Black Mountain again.

                                            BTW, on a completely different subject ... have you noticed the hyphenation of the words "tonight" and "today"? i have done a lot of reading and i honestly cannot remember ever seeing these words hyphenated in any other work. Hemingway wrote during this time. I've never noticed his writings to contain "to-day" or "to-night"

                                            was there actually a time when these words were hyphenated like this? does anyone have a copy of a 1930s English Usage book? i would be very interested in learning more about this.


                                          • wayne holland
                                            no, it s not that. i have some hard copy books that have it as well
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 22 9:52 AM
                                              no, it's not that. i have some hard copy books that have it as well

                                              --- In nerowolfe@yahoogroups.com, Jenna Welch <jennalwelch@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Are you referring to the e-books with the to-night and to-day? Could it be
                                              > a leftover from a line break in the print edition? (I know nothing about
                                              > e-books...)
                                              >
                                              > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 11:24 AM, wayne holland
                                              > <stanleywholland@...>wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > the most "interesting" thing? i think it's the best thing.
                                              > >
                                              > > i can't tell you how glad i am to be past these two titles (Too Many Cooks
                                              > > & Some Buried Caesar). i'm going through the corpus for the second time and
                                              > > doing some serious editing of my ebooks. i think i've said it before. i just
                                              > > don't like Wolfe traipsing around a county fair in upstate NY or the Kanawha
                                              > > Spa in WV. it just doesn't feel like he belongs there. i'm about halfway
                                              > > through with Over My Dead Body, and I gotta tell ya, it's good to be back
                                              > > inside the brownstone. i'm dreading Death of a Dude and i may not even
                                              > > bother with The Black Mountain again.
                                              > >
                                              > > BTW, on a completely different subject ... have you noticed the hyphenation
                                              > > of the words "tonight" and "today"? i have done a lot of reading and i
                                              > > honestly cannot remember ever seeing these words hyphenated in any other
                                              > > work. Hemingway wrote during this time. I've never noticed his writings to
                                              > > contain "to-day" or "to-night"
                                              > >
                                              > > was there actually a time when these words were hyphenated like this? does
                                              > > anyone have a copy of a 1930s English Usage book? i would be very interested
                                              > > in learning more about this.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
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