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Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas

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  • david.gallagher70
    List, Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I m especially
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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      List,

      Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
      ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
      interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
      heart.

      With advance appreciation,

      David

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Adamson, Peter
      Hi David, A good place to start is Vivian Nutton s book Ancient Medicine. The most important primary text is probably Galen s On the Doctrines of Plato and
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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        Hi David,

        A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The most important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato and Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle and the Stoics.

        Best wishes,
        Peter

        New postal address:

        Lehrstuhl VI f�r Sp�tantike und arabische Philosophie
        Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit�t M�nchen
        Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
        80539 M�nchen
        Germany

        The History of Philosophy Podcast
        http://www.historyofphilosophy.net
        On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
        ________________________________
        From: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com [neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of dgallagher@... [dgallagher@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
        To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas



        List,

        Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
        ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
        interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
        heart.

        With advance appreciation,

        David

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • david.gallagher70
        Thanks, Peter. I had identified Galen s commentary, and a good article on the Egyptian heart-centered view. Appreciatively, David In a message dated
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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          Thanks, Peter. I had identified Galen's commentary, and a good article on
          the Egyptian heart-centered view.

          Appreciatively,
          David



          In a message dated 1/30/2013 2:58:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          peter.adamson@... writes:

          Hi David,

          A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The most
          important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato and
          Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and
          (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle
          and the Stoics.

          Best wishes,
          Peter

          New postal address:

          Lehrstuhl VI für Spätantike und arabische Philosophie
          Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
          Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
          80539 München
          Germany

          The History of Philosophy Podcast
          http://www.historyofphilosophy.net
          On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
          ________________________________
          From: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com [neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com] on
          behalf of dgallagher@... [dgallagher@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
          To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas



          List,

          Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
          ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
          interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
          heart.

          With advance appreciation,

          David

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • robert_tkoch
          You might try Isha Schwaller de Lubicz , Her-Bak, a work of historical fiction about ancient Egypt. The ideas are certainly debatable, but perhaps remind of
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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            You might try Isha Schwaller de Lubicz', "Her-Bak," a work of historical fiction about ancient Egypt.

            The ideas are certainly debatable, but perhaps remind of some now-lost ancient concepts. You might study the part wherein each organ of the body is assigned a certain consciousness, and the organization of the body's health is a function of the social integration of these consciousnesses. The heart's consciousness and functioning are studied in detail.

            Robert

            --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, dgallagher@... wrote:
            >
            > List,
            >
            > Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
            > ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
            > interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
            > heart.
            >
            > With advance appreciation,
            >
            > David
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • vaeringjar
            Are Galen s philosophical works available in translation in any modern language? I actually don t know which is the standard Greek text for him, even in
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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              Are Galen's philosophical works available in translation in any modern language? I actually don't know which is the standard Greek text for him, even in general, or is there one, or is there any of just the philosophical works. They are not that extensive, correct?

              Thanks.

              Dennis Clark

              --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Adamson, Peter" wrote:
              >
              > Hi David,
              >
              > A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The most important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato and Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle and the Stoics.
              >
              > Best wishes,
              > Peter
              >
              > New postal address:
              >
              > Lehrstuhl VI für Spätantike und arabische Philosophie
              > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
              > Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
              > 80539 München
              > Germany
              >
              > The History of Philosophy Podcast
              > http://www.historyofphilosophy.net
              > On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
              > ________________________________
              > From: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com [neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of dgallagher@... [dgallagher@...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
              > To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas
              >
              >
              >
              > List,
              >
              > Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
              > ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
              > interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
              > heart.
              >
              > With advance appreciation,
              >
              > David
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Adamson, Peter
              Hi Dennis, ... Well, it depends what you consider to be philosophical works. There are a number that seem pretty obviously philosophical such as The Soul s
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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                Hi Dennis,


                >Are Galen's philosophical works available in translation in any modern language? I actually don't know which is the standard Greek text for him, even in general, or is there one, or is there any of just the philosophical works. They are not that extensive, correct?

                >>>

                Well, it depends what you consider to be "philosophical" works. There are a number that seem pretty obviously philosophical such as "The Soul's Dependence on the Body" or his ethical writings. But many of his works, even on medical subjects, are philosophically fascinating, for instance "On Natural Faculties." I'm just co-editing a book on philosophical themes in Galen actually and this will be the second such book; the Cambridge Companion to Galen also deals pretty extensively with philosophical issues.

                As for editions and translations the one everyone refers to is the complete edition of his works by K�hn, which is very old; you'll almost always see that given in page citations. But there are newer editions of many works, and maybe all the important ones. Peter Singer did a very useful set of translations of Galen called "Selected Works" for Oxford World Classics but this is unfortunately out of print and hard to find. Now however Philip van der Eijk in Berlin is leading a project to translate all of Galen and the first volume will cover psychology, so it will be philosophically quite important stuff.

                By the way I believe I'm right in saying that Galen is the most voluminously extant author in Greek, from any genre of writing. (Which isn't to say that his "philosophical" works are extensive, as you point out. One of the most interesting by the way would have been his On Demonstration but this is lost and known only through fragments and testimonia.) So there is a lot to explore.

                Finally just to put in another favorite point of mine, Galen is very important for the transmission of philosophical ideas to the Islamic world and also the Latin tradition. I am working on a book about a philosopher named al-Razi who was also a doctor and who, I think, got most of his ideas about Greek philosophy by reading Galen.

                Hope that helps,

                Peter


                --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com<mailto:neoplatonism%40yahoogroups.com>, "Adamson, Peter" wrote:
                >
                > Hi David,
                >
                > A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The most important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato and Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle and the Stoics.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                > Peter
                >
                > New postal address:
                >
                > Lehrstuhl VI f�r Sp�tantike und arabische Philosophie
                > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit�t M�nchen
                > Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
                > 80539 M�nchen
                > Germany
                >
                > The History of Philosophy Podcast
                > http://www.historyofphilosophy.net
                > On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
                > ________________________________
                > From: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com<mailto:neoplatonism%40yahoogroups.com> [neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com<mailto:neoplatonism%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of dgallagher@... [dgallagher@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
                > To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com<mailto:neoplatonism%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas
                >
                >
                >
                > List,
                >
                > Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
                > ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
                > interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning the
                > heart.
                >
                > With advance appreciation,
                >
                > David
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • david.gallagher70
                Dennis, Galen. Galen on the Usefulness of the Parts of the Body. Trans. Margaret Tallmadge May (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1968). David In a
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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                  Dennis,

                  Galen. Galen on the Usefulness of the Parts of the Body. Trans.
                  Margaret Tallmadge May (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1968).

                  David


                  In a message dated 1/30/2013 4:35:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  vaeringjar@... writes:




                  Are Galen's philosophical works available in translation in any modern
                  language? I actually don't know which is the standard Greek text for him, even
                  in general, or is there one, or is there any of just the philosophical
                  works. They are not that extensive, correct?

                  Thanks.

                  Dennis Clark

                  --- In _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com)
                  , "Adamson, Peter" wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi David,
                  >
                  > A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The
                  most important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato
                  and Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and
                  (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle
                  and the Stoics.
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  > Peter
                  >
                  > New postal address:
                  >
                  > Lehrstuhl VI für Spätantike und arabische Philosophie
                  > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
                  > Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
                  > 80539 München
                  > Germany
                  >
                  > The History of Philosophy Podcast
                  > _http://www.historyofphilosophy.net_
                  (http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/)
                  > On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_
                  (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com) [_neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com) ]
                  on behalf of dgallagher@... [dgallagher@...]
                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
                  > To: _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com)
                  > Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > List,
                  >
                  > Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
                  > ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
                  > interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning
                  the
                  > heart.
                  >
                  > With advance appreciation,
                  >
                  > David
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • vaeringjar
                  ... Yes, that is all most informative, thanks very much, Peter. I just looked at Amazon and that Singer collection even in paperback is going used at over 100
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >
                    > Well, it depends what you consider to be "philosophical" works. There are a number that seem pretty obviously philosophical such as "The Soul's Dependence on the Body" or his ethical writings. But many of his works, even on medical subjects, are philosophically fascinating, for instance "On Natural Faculties." I'm just co-editing a book on philosophical themes in Galen actually and this will be the second such book; the Cambridge Companion to Galen also deals pretty extensively with philosophical issues.
                    >
                    > As for editions and translations the one everyone refers to is the complete edition of his works by Kühn, which is very old; you'll almost always see that given in page citations. But there are newer editions of many works, and maybe all the important ones. Peter Singer did a very useful set of translations of Galen called "Selected Works" for Oxford World Classics but this is unfortunately out of print and hard to find. Now however Philip van der Eijk in Berlin is leading a project to translate all of Galen and the first volume will cover psychology, so it will be philosophically quite important stuff.
                    >
                    > By the way I believe I'm right in saying that Galen is the most voluminously extant author in Greek, from any genre of writing. (Which isn't to say that his "philosophical" works are extensive, as you point out. One of the most interesting by the way would have been his On Demonstration but this is lost and known only through fragments and testimonia.) So there is a lot to explore.
                    >
                    > Finally just to put in another favorite point of mine, Galen is very important for the transmission of philosophical ideas to the Islamic world and also the Latin tradition. I am working on a book about a philosopher named al-Razi who was also a doctor and who, I think, got most of his ideas about Greek philosophy by reading Galen.
                    >
                    > Hope that helps,
                    >
                    > Peter
                    >
                    >

                    Yes, that is all most informative, thanks very much, Peter. I just looked at Amazon and that Singer collection even in paperback is going used at over 100 dollars!

                    I didn't realize it but there is a Loeb on On the Natural Faculties.

                    I was able to find I believe online at Google Books and archive.org most the overtly philosophical texts - some of Lacy's edition of the de placitis Hippocratis et Platonis is previewed online at Google too. I would presume Galen is a main source for much Stoic doctrine too - ?

                    I am curious about this edition of Kraus and Walzer of his excerpting/commenting on the Timaeus - "compendium" in their edition, one of the Warburg Corpus Platonicum volumes. I have just downloaded it, and not myself quite sure what they are rendering here - a medieval Latin translation of an Arabic version? Sorry, but it's been a busy day!

                    Thanks, Peter - this is all most interesting, and good luck with your new book.

                    Dennis Clark
                  • vaeringjar
                    Thanks, I will look for that too. Dennis Clark
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 30, 2013
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                      Thanks, I will look for that too.

                      Dennis Clark

                      --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, dgallagher@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Dennis,
                      >
                      > Galen. Galen on the Usefulness of the Parts of the Body. Trans.
                      > Margaret Tallmadge May (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1968).
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 1/30/2013 4:35:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      > vaeringjar@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Are Galen's philosophical works available in translation in any modern
                      > language? I actually don't know which is the standard Greek text for him, even
                      > in general, or is there one, or is there any of just the philosophical
                      > works. They are not that extensive, correct?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Dennis Clark
                      >
                      > --- In _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com)
                      > , "Adamson, Peter" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi David,
                      > >
                      > > A good place to start is Vivian Nutton's book "Ancient Medicine." The
                      > most important primary text is probably Galen's "On the Doctrines of Plato
                      > and Hippocrates" in which he defends the brain-centered view he, Plato and
                      > (supposedly) Hippocrates favor, against the heart-centered view of Aristotle
                      > and the Stoics.
                      > >
                      > > Best wishes,
                      > > Peter
                      > >
                      > > New postal address:
                      > >
                      > > Lehrstuhl VI für Spätantike und arabische Philosophie
                      > > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
                      > > Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1
                      > > 80539 München
                      > > Germany
                      > >
                      > > The History of Philosophy Podcast
                      > > _http://www.historyofphilosophy.net_
                      > (http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/)
                      > > On Twitter @HistPhilosophy
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_
                      > (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com) [_neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com) ]
                      > on behalf of dgallagher@ [dgallagher@]
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:14 PM
                      > > To: _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com)
                      > > Subject: [neoplatonism] Inquiry re: Ancient Ideas
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > List,
                      > >
                      > > Could someone, please, recommend reliable secondary sources which address
                      > > ancient ideas regarding human physiology and neurology? I'm especially
                      > > interested in material that addresses concepts and theories concerning
                      > the
                      > > heart.
                      > >
                      > > With advance appreciation,
                      > >
                      > > David
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Adamson, Peter
                      Dear Dennis, ... Yes, absolutely, for instance he criticizes Chrysippus a lot in PHP. ... This is a paraphrase by Galen of part of the Timaeus, which is lost
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 31, 2013
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                        Dear Dennis,


                        >I was able to find I believe online at Google Books and archive.org most the overtly philosophical texts - some of Lacy's edition of the de placitis Hippocratis et Platonis is previewed online at Google too. I would presume Galen is a main source for much Stoic doctrine too - ?

                        Yes, absolutely, for instance he criticizes Chrysippus a lot in PHP.

                        >I am curious about this edition of Kraus and Walzer of his excerpting/commenting on the Timaeus - "compendium" in their edition, one of the Warburg Corpus Platonicum volumes. I have just downloaded it, and not myself quite sure what they are rendering here - a medieval Latin translation of an Arabic version? Sorry, but it's been a busy day!

                        This is a paraphrase by Galen of part of the Timaeus, which is lost in Greek but retained in Arabic. Unless I'm misremembering the Latin translation is not medieval, it is Kraus/Walzer's translation of the Arabic into Latin (this was back when enough people read Latin that this made sense, I guess!). Galen also wrote a commentary on the Timaeus; it's possible that he stopped paraphrasing and switched to commentary when it got to the more medically important parts on human anatomy. This commentary is lost but there is a collection of fragments, including from Arabic.

                        Best,

                        Peter





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