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Simplicius quotation

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  • vaeringjar
    I started reading Pierre Hadot s Qu est-cd que la philosophie antique? , and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is
    Message 1 of 5 , May 29 9:17 PM
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      I started reading Pierre Hadot's "Qu'est-cd que la philosophie antique?", and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is this one from Simplicius, which I had never read, and wonder some that is it not more popular or at least better known - or am I just behind the times on this one? -

      "Quelle place le philosophe tiendra-t-il dans la cité? Ce sera celle d'un sculpteur d'homme."

      I haven't had a lot of time to search for the source here among Simplicius' writing, but I found one reference online that claims it is from the Commmentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus. Does anyone recognize it? Thanks!

      Dennis Clark
    • Marilynn Lawrence
      Dennis, This work by Simplicius is one of my favorites. I think what you re looking for is in section 64 or 313 in the I. Hadot numbering. It s translated as
      Message 2 of 5 , May 29 10:17 PM
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        Dennis,

        This work by Simplicius is one of my favorites. I think what you're looking for is in section 64 or 313 in the I. Hadot numbering. It's translated as this by Brittain and Brennan (which doesn't have the picturesque sculpting imagery):

        "But we should investigate which place the philosopher will take in the city. Isn't it most of all the human-producing one, the one that crafts trustworthy and respectful citizens? For his job will be none other than to purify himself and the others for a life in accordance with nature fitting for a human being."

        There's more but I should be sleeping.

        Marilynn



        On May 30, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@...> wrote:

        > I started reading Pierre Hadot's "Qu'est-cd que la philosophie antique?", and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is this one from Simplicius, which I had never read, and wonder some that is it not more popular or at least better known - or am I just behind the times on this one? -
        >
        > "Quelle place le philosophe tiendra-t-il dans la cité? Ce sera celle d'un sculpteur d'homme."
        >
        > I haven't had a lot of time to search for the source here among Simplicius' writing, but I found one reference online that claims it is from the Commmentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus. Does anyone recognize it? Thanks!
        >
        > Dennis Clark
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • vaeringjar
        Thanks, Marilynn, so good to hear from you, sleepy or otherwise. Yes, indeed, it s a lovely quotation. I wonder the original Greek though is for
        Message 3 of 5 , May 30 12:54 PM
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          Thanks, Marilynn, so good to hear from you, sleepy or otherwise.

          Yes, indeed, it's a lovely quotation. I wonder the original Greek though is for 'sculpts/crafts'. Some verbal form of 'demiourgos'?

          I don't know I have a Greek edition of this work, certainly not as a book, but not from online - ? It's not part of the Berlin CAG, right, since it's not a commentary on Aristotle...duh.

          What is the standard Greek edition?

          --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Marilynn Lawrence <pronoia12@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dennis,
          >
          > This work by Simplicius is one of my favorites. I think what you're looking for is in section 64 or 313 in the I. Hadot numbering. It's translated as this by Brittain and Brennan (which doesn't have the picturesque sculpting imagery):
          >
          > "But we should investigate which place the philosopher will take in the city. Isn't it most of all the human-producing one, the one that crafts trustworthy and respectful citizens? For his job will be none other than to purify himself and the others for a life in accordance with nature fitting for a human being."
          >
          > There's more but I should be sleeping.
          >
          > Marilynn
          >
          >
          >
          > On May 30, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I started reading Pierre Hadot's "Qu'est-cd que la philosophie antique?", and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is this one from Simplicius, which I had never read, and wonder some that is it not more popular or at least better known - or am I just behind the times on this one? -
          > >
          > > "Quelle place le philosophe tiendra-t-il dans la cité? Ce sera celle d'un sculpteur d'homme."
          > >
          > > I haven't had a lot of time to search for the source here among Simplicius' writing, but I found one reference online that claims it is from the Commmentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus. Does anyone recognize it? Thanks!
          > >
          > > Dennis Clark
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Marilynn Lawrence
          Hi, Dennis, I. Hadot s edition is most recent, so I suppose it s considered standard, though the English translators used both, accepting the previous edition
          Message 4 of 5 , May 30 1:53 PM
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            Hi, Dennis,

            I. Hadot's edition is most recent, so I suppose it's considered standard, though the English translators used both, accepting the previous edition by
            F. Dübner on occasion where they differ.

            I looked up the passage in TLG (Dübner). It's anthropopoion:

            Ἀλλὰ ζητητέον, τίνα χώραν ὁ φιλοσοφῶν ἐν τῇ πό-
            λει καθέξει· ἢ μάλιστα μὲν τὴν ἀνθρωποποιὸν, καὶ @1
            (65.) πιστῶν καὶ αἰδημόνων πολιτῶν δημιουργόν; Ἔργον
            γὰρ ἕξει οὐδὲν ἄλλο, ἢ ἑαυτόν τε καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους εἰς τὸν
            κατὰ φύσιν ἀνθρώπῳ προσήκοντα βίον ἀποκαθαίρειν·


            On May 30, 2012, at 3:54 PM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@...> wrote:

            > Thanks, Marilynn, so good to hear from you, sleepy or otherwise.
            >
            > Yes, indeed, it's a lovely quotation. I wonder the original Greek though is for 'sculpts/crafts'. Some verbal form of 'demiourgos'?
            >
            > I don't know I have a Greek edition of this work, certainly not as a book, but not from online - ? It's not part of the Berlin CAG, right, since it's not a commentary on Aristotle...duh.
            >
            > What is the standard Greek edition?
            >
            > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Marilynn Lawrence <pronoia12@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dennis,
            > >
            > > This work by Simplicius is one of my favorites. I think what you're looking for is in section 64 or 313 in the I. Hadot numbering. It's translated as this by Brittain and Brennan (which doesn't have the picturesque sculpting imagery):
            > >
            > > "But we should investigate which place the philosopher will take in the city. Isn't it most of all the human-producing one, the one that crafts trustworthy and respectful citizens? For his job will be none other than to purify himself and the others for a life in accordance with nature fitting for a human being."
            > >
            > > There's more but I should be sleeping.
            > >
            > > Marilynn
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On May 30, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I started reading Pierre Hadot's "Qu'est-cd que la philosophie antique?", and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is this one from Simplicius, which I had never read, and wonder some that is it not more popular or at least better known - or am I just behind the times on this one? -
            > > >
            > > > "Quelle place le philosophe tiendra-t-il dans la cité? Ce sera celle d'un sculpteur d'homme."
            > > >
            > > > I haven't had a lot of time to search for the source here among Simplicius' writing, but I found one reference online that claims it is from the Commmentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus. Does anyone recognize it? Thanks!
            > > >
            > > > Dennis Clark
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • vaeringjar
            I am at work and not at liberty to dwell much on this right now, but I did take the time to look up anthropoios in LSJ online, and sure enough, in Lucian, at
            Message 5 of 5 , May 31 1:20 PM
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              I am at work and not at liberty to dwell much on this right now, but I did take the time to look up 'anthropoios' in LSJ online, and sure enough, in Lucian, at least, it means really 'sculptor of men', as opposed to 'theopoios', "sculptor of gods'. Obviously Simplicius - whose usage is also cited in LSJ and in fact only one other there in addition to those two, of an author I don't actually recognize - is using it, if in that sense, metaphorically, but main thing is that 'poios' allows the ambiguity nicely. I like Hadot's translation better then.

              Thanks, Marilynn.

              Dennis Clark

              --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Marilynn Lawrence <pronoia12@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Dennis,
              >
              > I. Hadot's edition is most recent, so I suppose it's considered standard, though the English translators used both, accepting the previous edition by
              > F. Dübner on occasion where they differ.
              >
              > I looked up the passage in TLG (Dübner). It's anthropopoion:
              >
              > Ἀλλὰ ζητητέον, τίνα χώραν ὁ φιλοσοφῶν ἐν τῇ πό-
              > λει καθέξει· ἢ μάλιστα μὲν τὴν ἀνθρωποποιὸν, καὶ @1
              > (65.) πιστῶν καὶ αἰδημόνων πολιτῶν δημιουργόν; Ἔργον
              > γὰρ ἕξει οὐδὲν ἄλλο, á¼¢ á¼`αυτόν τε καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους εἰς τὸν
              > κατὰ φύσιν ἀνθρώπῳ προσήκοντα βίον ἀποκαθαίρειν·
              >
              >
              > On May 30, 2012, at 3:54 PM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Thanks, Marilynn, so good to hear from you, sleepy or otherwise.
              > >
              > > Yes, indeed, it's a lovely quotation. I wonder the original Greek though is for 'sculpts/crafts'. Some verbal form of 'demiourgos'?
              > >
              > > I don't know I have a Greek edition of this work, certainly not as a book, but not from online - ? It's not part of the Berlin CAG, right, since it's not a commentary on Aristotle...duh.
              > >
              > > What is the standard Greek edition?
              > >
              > > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Marilynn Lawrence <pronoia12@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dennis,
              > > >
              > > > This work by Simplicius is one of my favorites. I think what you're looking for is in section 64 or 313 in the I. Hadot numbering. It's translated as this by Brittain and Brennan (which doesn't have the picturesque sculpting imagery):
              > > >
              > > > "But we should investigate which place the philosopher will take in the city. Isn't it most of all the human-producing one, the one that crafts trustworthy and respectful citizens? For his job will be none other than to purify himself and the others for a life in accordance with nature fitting for a human being."
              > > >
              > > > There's more but I should be sleeping.
              > > >
              > > > Marilynn
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On May 30, 2012, at 12:17 AM, "vaeringjar" <vaeringjar@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > I started reading Pierre Hadot's "Qu'est-cd que la philosophie antique?", and among the various philosophers whom he cites as a prelude to his main text is this one from Simplicius, which I had never read, and wonder some that is it not more popular or at least better known - or am I just behind the times on this one? -
              > > > >
              > > > > "Quelle place le philosophe tiendra-t-il dans la cité? Ce sera celle d'un sculpteur d'homme."
              > > > >
              > > > > I haven't had a lot of time to search for the source here among Simplicius' writing, but I found one reference online that claims it is from the Commmentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus. Does anyone recognize it? Thanks!
              > > > >
              > > > > Dennis Clark
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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