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Ritual Sacrament/Re: Ulansey/Re: [neoplatonism] Re: De Antro Nympharum

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  • Thomas Mether
    Dennis, Find a very good steakhouse. It has to be one religiously devoted to the qualities of various cuts of beef prepared under various conditions. Order
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 8, 2011
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      Dennis,

      Find a very good steakhouse. It has to be one religiously devoted to the
      qualities of various cuts of beef prepared under various conditions. Order
      either a 22 oz Sirloin (make sure it is 2 inches thick) or a 32 oz
      Porterhouse (the strip with the Prime Rib end -- remember, I grew up on and
      maintain a beef farm, don't get cheated -- the 32 oz Porterhouse rightfully
      has a prime-rib end along with a strip) well-seared and smoked over flame
      BUT -- only to rare or medium rare temp. You want the juicy blood
      (technically, its not but...) Match with your favorite libation -- red
      wine, beer,? For desert, a Rocky Patel Connecticut (Toro? Robusto?) and ...
      ?

      Offer all praise to Mithras. Sincerely enjoy the slain bull while
      meditating in how much bull the world is still full of.




      On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:21 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      >
      > Yes, thanks, Thomas, I have that book, but haven't read it all yet. Oddly
      > enough I may be one of the relatively few people who ever was lucky enough
      > to take a course just in Mithraism, long ago, as I studied with David
      > Francis in grad school, who was much involved in Mithraic studies starting
      > in the 1970's, and among other things did a lot of work on the Mithraeum at
      > Dura Europos when he was still at Yale.
      >
      > The Clauss book is a pretty good introduction.
      >
      > I would say the origin question is likely in toto a non licet. Frankly I
      > would personally prefer, if we could find any more new evidence, get more
      > of what the rituals were like themselves, than how it originated.
      >
      > Dennis Clark
      >
      >
      > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dennis,
      > > Beck has an entire book out.
      > >
      > >
      > http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Mithras-Cult-Roman-Empire/dp/0198140894/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323313259&sr=1-1
      > >
      > > Also, there is Manfred Clauss
      > >
      > >
      > http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cult-Mithras-God-Mysteries/dp/0415929776/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0
      > >
      > > Both argue for a Roman origin, though.
      > >
      > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Dennis,
      > > > >
      > > > > As to your second point, the hero figure slaying a Gorgon type of
      > > > > serpent-headed tri-cephalic figure is well-attested in Indo-Iranian
      > > > > materials as is Mithra slaying the cosmic bull at the end of time as
      > a
      > > > rite
      > > > > of resurrection.
      > > > > The above was my point to Ulansey.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Any discussion of the origins of the cult most likely needs to take
      > into
      > > > account this not so old article of Roger Beck:
      > > >
      > > > "The Mysteries of Mithras: A New Account of their Genesis", JRS 88,
      > 1988.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.jstor.org/pss/300807
      > > >
      > > > Very interesting ideas about the possible Commagenian connection, among
      > > > much else.
      > > >
      > > > Sorry, don't have time - or space! - to discuss this huge issue just
      > now.
      > > >
      > > > Dennis Clark
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Dillon
      ... This correspondence must now cease. The Editor
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 9, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        > Dennis,
        >
        > Find a very good steakhouse. It has to be one religiously devoted to the
        > qualities of various cuts of beef prepared under various conditions. Order
        > either a 22 oz Sirloin (make sure it is 2 inches thick) or a 32 oz
        > Porterhouse (the strip with the Prime Rib end -- remember, I grew up on and
        > maintain a beef farm, don't get cheated -- the 32 oz Porterhouse rightfully
        > has a prime-rib end along with a strip) well-seared and smoked over flame
        > BUT -- only to rare or medium rare temp. You want the juicy blood
        > (technically, its not but...) Match with your favorite libation -- red
        > wine, beer,? For desert, a Rocky Patel Connecticut (Toro? Robusto?) and ...
        > ?
        >
        > Offer all praise to Mithras. Sincerely enjoy the slain bull while
        > meditating in how much bull the world is still full of.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:21 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
        >
        >> **
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Yes, thanks, Thomas, I have that book, but haven't read it all yet. Oddly
        >> enough I may be one of the relatively few people who ever was lucky enough
        >> to take a course just in Mithraism, long ago, as I studied with David
        >> Francis in grad school, who was much involved in Mithraic studies starting
        >> in the 1970's, and among other things did a lot of work on the Mithraeum at
        >> Dura Europos when he was still at Yale.
        >>
        >> The Clauss book is a pretty good introduction.
        >>
        >> I would say the origin question is likely in toto a non licet. Frankly I
        >> would personally prefer, if we could find any more new evidence, get more
        >> of what the rituals were like themselves, than how it originated.
        >>
        >> Dennis Clark
        >>
        >>
        >> --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Dennis,
        >>> Beck has an entire book out.
        >>>
        >>>
        >> http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Mithras-Cult-Roman-Empire/dp/0198140894/ref=sr
        >> _1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323313259&sr=1-1
        >>>
        >>> Also, there is Manfred Clauss
        >>>
        >>>
        >> http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cult-Mithras-God-Mysteries/dp/0415929776/ref=tmm_
        >> hrd_title_0
        >>>
        >>> Both argue for a Roman origin, though.
        >>>
        >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> **
        >>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@>
        >>>> wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Dennis,
        >>>>>
        >>>>> As to your second point, the hero figure slaying a Gorgon type of
        >>>>> serpent-headed tri-cephalic figure is well-attested in Indo-Iranian
        >>>>> materials as is Mithra slaying the cosmic bull at the end of time as
        >> a
        >>>> rite
        >>>>> of resurrection.
        >>>>> The above was my point to Ulansey.
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> Any discussion of the origins of the cult most likely needs to take
        >> into
        >>>> account this not so old article of Roger Beck:
        >>>>
        >>>> "The Mysteries of Mithras: A New Account of their Genesis", JRS 88,
        >> 1988.
        >>>>
        >>>> http://www.jstor.org/pss/300807
        >>>>
        >>>> Very interesting ideas about the possible Commagenian connection, among
        >>>> much else.
        >>>>
        >>>> Sorry, don't have time - or space! - to discuss this huge issue just
        >> now.
        >>>>
        >>>> Dennis Clark
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        This correspondence must now cease. The Editor
      • vaeringjar
        ... Pater Mithraicus dixit! Taurus tamen defunctus nunc - ite, fratres Mithraici! - sed magna cum sanguinitate... Brother Bull? (Red Bull, bro ? - argh)Oh, bad
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 9, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, John Dillon <jmdillon@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Dennis,
          > >
          > > Find a very good steakhouse. It has to be one religiously devoted to the
          > > qualities of various cuts of beef prepared under various conditions. Order
          > > either a 22 oz Sirloin (make sure it is 2 inches thick) or a 32 oz
          > > Porterhouse (the strip with the Prime Rib end -- remember, I grew up on and
          > > maintain a beef farm, don't get cheated -- the 32 oz Porterhouse rightfully
          > > has a prime-rib end along with a strip) well-seared and smoked over flame
          > > BUT -- only to rare or medium rare temp. You want the juicy blood
          > > (technically, its not but...) Match with your favorite libation -- red
          > > wine, beer,? For desert, a Rocky Patel Connecticut (Toro? Robusto?) and ...
          > > ?
          > >
          > > Offer all praise to Mithras. Sincerely enjoy the slain bull while
          > > meditating in how much bull the world is still full of.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:21 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >> **
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Yes, thanks, Thomas, I have that book, but haven't read it all yet. Oddly
          > >> enough I may be one of the relatively few people who ever was lucky enough
          > >> to take a course just in Mithraism, long ago, as I studied with David
          > >> Francis in grad school, who was much involved in Mithraic studies starting
          > >> in the 1970's, and among other things did a lot of work on the Mithraeum at
          > >> Dura Europos when he was still at Yale.
          > >>
          > >> The Clauss book is a pretty good introduction.
          > >>
          > >> I would say the origin question is likely in toto a non licet. Frankly I
          > >> would personally prefer, if we could find any more new evidence, get more
          > >> of what the rituals were like themselves, than how it originated.
          > >>
          > >> Dennis Clark
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@>
          > >> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>> Dennis,
          > >>> Beck has an entire book out.
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >> http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Mithras-Cult-Roman-Empire/dp/0198140894/ref=sr
          > >> _1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323313259&sr=1-1
          > >>>
          > >>> Also, there is Manfred Clauss
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >> http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Cult-Mithras-God-Mysteries/dp/0415929776/ref=tmm_
          > >> hrd_title_0
          > >>>
          > >>> Both argue for a Roman origin, though.
          > >>>
          > >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:17 PM, vaeringjar <vaeringjar@> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>>> **
          > >>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>> --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mether <thomas.r.mether@>
          > >>>> wrote:
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> Dennis,
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> As to your second point, the hero figure slaying a Gorgon type of
          > >>>>> serpent-headed tri-cephalic figure is well-attested in Indo-Iranian
          > >>>>> materials as is Mithra slaying the cosmic bull at the end of time as
          > >> a
          > >>>> rite
          > >>>>> of resurrection.
          > >>>>> The above was my point to Ulansey.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Any discussion of the origins of the cult most likely needs to take
          > >> into
          > >>>> account this not so old article of Roger Beck:
          > >>>>
          > >>>> "The Mysteries of Mithras: A New Account of their Genesis", JRS 88,
          > >> 1988.
          > >>>>
          > >>>> http://www.jstor.org/pss/300807
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Very interesting ideas about the possible Commagenian connection, among
          > >>>> much else.
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Sorry, don't have time - or space! - to discuss this huge issue just
          > >> now.
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Dennis Clark
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >>>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > This correspondence must now cease. The Editor
          >

          Pater Mithraicus dixit! Taurus tamen defunctus nunc - ite, fratres Mithraici! - sed magna cum sanguinitate...

          Brother Bull? (Red Bull, bro'? - argh)Oh, bad one. Yes, time to stop, but I missed all the fun earlier here, when I was slaying my dragons at work...no bears, no bulls...I don't work for a brokerage firm any more...another bad pun...basta.

          (No, we did NOT get the promised taurobolium, touted in that semester's course offering...argh...I better not get into all of that here, not even 33 years later...)

          Dennis Clark
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