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Re: Clement of Alexandria Quotation/Themistius' On The Soul

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  • pomonomo2003
    You said, Someone was misquoted or paraphrased or plagiarized by someone else. I wonder... Borges has a wonderful short essay on this theme called Pascal s
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 6, 2003
      You said, "Someone was misquoted or paraphrased or plagiarized by
      someone else." I wonder...

      Borges has a wonderful short essay on this theme called 'Pascal's
      Sphere.' He opens the essay by saying that "perhaps universal history
      is the history of a few metaphors." The metaphor in question is God
      as universal sphere.

      He then mentions the following:

      Xenophanes of Colophon said God was an eternal sphere. (No citation
      given by Borges.)

      Plato (Timaeus) claims that a sphere is the most perfect being
      because all points on its surface are equidistant from its center.

      Parmenides (No citation) "Being is like the mass of a well-rounded
      sphere, whose force is constant from the center in any direction."

      Alain de Lille (No Citation) "God is an intelligible sphere whose
      center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere." Borges says
      Lille found this in the Corpus Hermeticum.

      Rabelais (Pantagruel, last chapter) "that intellectual sphere, whose
      center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

      Giordano Bruno (The feast of the ashes) "We can state with
      certainty that the universe is all center, or that the center of the
      universe is everywhere and the circumference nowhere."

      And lastly Pascal, whose misfortune was to be present at the birth of
      modernity, whose science changes our relationship to even the most
      ancient metaphors. Pascal writes, "Nature is an infinite sphere,
      the center of which is everywhere, and the circumference nowhere."
      Borges then cites "the critical edition of Tourneur (Paris,
      1941), which reproduces the cancellations and hesitations in the
      manuscript." Borges tells us that Pascal started to write
      effroyable – frightful, a frightful sphere!

      Would even a `perfect' world, bereft (or soon to be bereft)
      of God, be frightful?

      Borges chooses to end this piece with the words "perhaps
      universal history is the history of the various intonations of a few
      metaphors." But perhaps my imputing choice to an artist as gifted
      as Borges is a frightful barbarism?

      Joe

      PS I can't vouch for any of the quotes above. Borges may have been
      more creative than I am giving him credit for. I only hope that the
      group thinks it as interesting as I do to see how ideas (metaphors)
      change over time.

      --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Richard Roe <richardcaviar@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- vaeringjar <vaeringjar@y...> wrote:
      > > I hope this isn't too off-subject, but I was hoping
      > > someone could
      >
      >
      > <snip>
      >
      > > Thanks all, in advance.
      > >
      > > Dennis Clark
      > > San Francisco
      > >
      > > PS The Pythagorean quotation above is rather
      > > reminiscent of the
      > > saying, which Joseph Campbell, among others, was so
      > > fond of - "God is
      > > an infinite sphere, whose center is everywhere and
      > > circumference
      > > nowhere," which he cited from the medieval <Book of
      > > the 24
      > > Philosophers>, but I know I have seen in some
      > > earlier source from
      > > Antiquity and, of course, can't place now!
      >
      >
      > Oh, goody! *I* finally get to contribute instead of
      > just lurking! Take your pick of sources: Nicholas of
      > Cusa (paraphrased?), Giordano Bruno (parahraser?), or
      > Vivekananda (an original idea or plagiarism?):
      >
      >
      > PLEASE SEE:
      >
      > Meister Eckhart in Nicholas of Cusa’s 1456 sermon:
      > "Ubi est qui natus est rex Iudeorum?
      >
      > Clyde Lee Miller
      >
      > http://www.sunysb.edu/philosophy/new/research/miller_2.html
      >
      > --------------
      >
      > SEE ALSO:
      >
      > NICHOLAS OF CUSA'S DEBATE WITH JOHN WENCK
      > www.cla.umn.edu/jhopkins/Apologia12-2000.pdf
      >
      > -------------------
      >
      > AND ALSO SEE:
      >
      >
      > Giordano Bruno in De Immenso et Innumerabilis, Bk II,
      > Ch.IX
      >
      > http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/V08N1/V08N1DAN.PDF
      >
      >
      > -----------------------------------
      >
      > HOWEVER:
      >
      > In any case, note what Nicholas of Cusa says, in the
      > 15th Century:
      >
      > "God is like an infinite sphere, whose center is
      > everywhere and circumference nowhere."
      >
      >
      > "The soul is a circle of which the circumference is in
      > a body. God is a circle whose circumference is nowhere
      > but whose center is everywhere."
      >
      > -- SwamiVivekananda, 19th C.
      >
      > http://www.vedanta-atlanta.org/articles/PROvisions/notes.html
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------
      >
      > BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND:
      >
      >
      >
      > Man is a infinite circle whose circumference is
      > nowhere, but the center is located on one spot; and
      > God is an infinite circle whose circumference is
      > nowhere, but whose center is everywhere.
      > â€" Swami Vivekananda.
      >
      > http://www.virtualpune.com/cgi-bin/dailynews/June23/news2.shtml
      >
      > ---------------------------
      >
      > THEREFORE:
      >
      > Someone was misquoted or paraphrased or plagiarised by
      > someone else.
      >
      > Q.E.D.
      >
      > (I think)
      >
      > Richard Roe
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
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    • vaeringjar
      Thanks to all of you, especially Mrs Fauqier and Chase, for your very kind replies. There it was on my bookshelf, all along, in the Plutarch Loeb, Sandbach s
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 7, 2003
        Thanks to all of you, especially Mrs Fauqier and Chase, for your very
        kind replies. There it was on my bookshelf, all along, in the
        Plutarch Loeb, Sandbach's fragments - mirabile visu. Since we are on
        the subject, here is a bit of the "Themistius" On the Soul,
        specifically the part I found so appealing:

        entautha d'agnoei [he psyche], plen hotan en toi teleutan ede
        genetai: tote de paschei pathos oion hoi teletais megalais
        katorgiazomenoi. dio kai to hrema toi hremati kai to ergon toi ergoi
        tou teleutan kai teleisthai proseoike. planai ta prota kai peridromai
        kopodeis kai dia skotous tines hypoptoi poreiai kai atelestoi, eita
        pro tou telous autou ta deina panta, phrike kai tromos kai idros kai
        thambos:ek de toutou phos ti thaumasion apentesen kai topoi katharoi
        kai leimones edexanto, phonas kai choreiras kai semnotetas akousmaton
        ieron kai phasmaton hagion echontes: en hais ho panteles ede kai
        memyemenos eleutheros gegonos kai aphetos periion estephanomenos
        orgiazei kai sunestin hosiois kai katharois andrasi...

        In this world it [the soul] is without knowledge, except when that
        time comes, it has an experience like that of men who are undergoing
        initiation in the great mysteries; and so the verbs "teleutan" (die)
        and "teleisthai" (be initiated), and the actions they denote, have a
        similarity. In the beginning there is straying and wandering, the
        weariness of running this way and that, and nervous journeys through
        darkness that reach no goal, and then immediately before the
        consummation every possible terror, shivering and trembling and
        sewating and amazement. But after this a marvelous light meets the
        wanderer, and open country and meadow lands welcome him; and in that
        place there are voices and dancing and the solemn majesty of sacred
        music and holy visions. And amidst these, he walks at large in new
        freedom, now perfect and fully initiated, celebrating the sacred
        rites, a garland upon his head, and converses with the pure and holy
        men..." (Sandbach, f.178, pp.316-319, Loeb Plutarch Moralia XV)

        For some reason this reminds me of Goethe's "Kennst du das Land wo
        die schoenen Citronen blumen", or maybe a number of passages in
        Bruckner where there is an intrusion into the music of some
        impression of great sublimity in an almost physical, spatial sense,
        as if one suddenly gains an astounding view when in the mountains,
        all at once, looking out on some great expanse in the distance.
        Perhaps that is as close as one can get physically to the notion of
        the inclination of the One into the natural world - ?

        (There a number of other interesting philosophical fragments from
        Plutarch here I hadn't noticed before, so thanks again for pointing
        this out, and to those who gave the exact reference in Thesleff for
        the Pythagorean quotation included by Clement.)

        Dennis Clark
        San Francisco

        --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Michael Chase <goya@u...> wrote:
        >
        > Le samedi, 6 sep 2003, à 00:48 Europe/Paris, vaeringjar a écrit :
        >

        > M.C. The extract may be found in Stobaeus, IV, 52b, 48, vol. 5, p.
        1087
        > ff. Hense. Hense, following a note in the Parisian manuscript A,
        > attributed it to Themistius (whom you rightly identify as the
        > 4th-century philosopher/rhetor), but others of no meaner stripe,
        like
        > Wyttenbach and Bernadakis, attribute it to Plutarch. Hence you'll
        find
        > it among Plutarch's fragments, no. 177ff. Sandbach. Wyttenbach
        first
        > published the fragment under Plutarch's name in 1772, and then
        again in
        > his edition of the Moralia (Oxford 1830), vol. 5, p. 722 ff.
        >
        > Best, Mike
        >
        > >
        > Michael Chase
        > (goya@v...)
        > CNRS UPR 76/
        > l'Annee Philologique
        > Villejuif-Paris
        > France
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Chase
        ... M.C. Pierre Boyancé used to recommend that if we want to know what the Mysteries were really like, we should study the metaphorical use made of them by
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 8, 2003
          Le lundi, 8 sep 2003, à 03:44 Europe/Paris, vaeringjar a écrit :

          > Thanks to all of you, especially Mrs Fauqier and Chase, for your very
          > kind replies. There it was on my bookshelf, all along, in the
          > Plutarch Loeb, Sandbach's fragments - mirabile visu. Since we are on
          > the subject, here is a bit of the "Themistius" On the Soul,
          > specifically the part I found so appealing:
          >
          > entautha d'agnoei [he psyche], plen hotan en toi teleutan ede
          > genetai: tote de paschei pathos oion hoi teletais megalais
          > katorgiazomenoi. dio kai to hrema toi hremati kai to ergon toi ergoi
          > tou teleutan kai teleisthai proseoike. planai ta prota kai peridromai
          > kopodeis kai dia skotous tines hypoptoi poreiai kai atelestoi, eita
          > pro tou telous autou ta deina panta, phrike kai tromos kai idros kai
          > thambos:ek de toutou phos ti thaumasion apentesen kai topoi katharoi
          > kai leimones edexanto, phonas kai choreiras kai semnotetas akousmaton
          > ieron kai phasmaton hagion echontes: en hais ho panteles ede kai
          > memyemenos eleutheros gegonos kai aphetos periion estephanomenos
          > orgiazei kai sunestin hosiois kai katharois andrasi...
          >
          > In this world it [the soul] is without knowledge, except when that
          > time comes, it has an experience like that of men who are undergoing
          > initiation in the great mysteries; and so the verbs "teleutan" (die)
          > and "teleisthai" (be initiated), and the actions they denote, have a
          > similarity. In the beginning there is straying and wandering, the
          > weariness of running this way and that, and nervous journeys through
          > darkness that reach no goal, and then immediately before the
          > consummation every possible terror, shivering and trembling and
          > sewating and amazement. But after this a marvelous light meets the
          > wanderer, and open country and meadow lands welcome him; and in that
          > place there are voices and dancing and the solemn majesty of sacred
          > music and holy visions. And amidst these, he walks at large in new
          > freedom, now perfect and fully initiated, celebrating the sacred
          > rites, a garland upon his head, and converses with the pure and holy
          > men..." (Sandbach, f.178, pp.316-319, Loeb Plutarch Moralia XV)

          M.C. Pierre Boyancé used to recommend that if we want to know what the
          Mysteries were really like, we should study the metaphorical use made
          of them by the philosophers ; see for instance 'Sur les mystères
          d'Éleusis', Revue des Etudes Grecques 75 (1962).
          >
          > For some reason this reminds me of Goethe's "Kennst du das Land wo
          > die schoenen Citronen blumen", or maybe a number of passages in
          > Bruckner where there is an intrusion into the music of some
          > impression of great sublimity in an almost physical, spatial sense,
          > as if one suddenly gains an astounding view when in the mountains,
          > all at once, looking out on some great expanse in the distance.
          > Perhaps that is as close as one can get physically to the notion of
          > the inclination of the One into the natural world - ?

          M.C. I dunno about that, but Pierre Hadot has interestingly studied
          Greco-Roman spiritual exercises intended to reproduce, in everyday
          life, precisely that feeling of sublimity ; see for instance his
          Philosophy as a way of life (Oxford 1995), and in particular the essay
          on the View from above.

          As far as the mysteries are concerned, you might be interested in a
          passage from the Greek Magical Papyri, IV, 475-824, describing a
          philosophical-religious intiation in mystery terminology, complete with
          actors, puppets, and special effects galore (this is the text Dieterich
          studied in his book Eine Mithrasliturgie, although in fact it has
          nothing to do with Mithras). See H.D. Betz, The Greek magical papyri in
          translation, I, Chicago, 2nd ed. 1992, pp. 48 ff..
          >
          > Best, Mike.
          Michael Chase
          (goya@...)
          CNRS UPR 76/
          l'Annee Philologique
          Villejuif-Paris
          France


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bradley Skene
          Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming back around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely conencted to the
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 8, 2003
            Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming back around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase another fragment of Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and recently indentified and published. I don't have the refernce to hand now, but if any one is interested I'll post it tonight.

            Michael Chase <goya@...> wrote:
            As far as the mysteries are concerned, you might be interested in a
            passage from the Greek Magical Papyri, IV, 475-824, describing a
            philosophical-religious intiation in mystery terminology, complete with
            actors, puppets, and special effects galore (this is the text Dieterich
            studied in his book Eine Mithrasliturgie, although in fact it has
            nothing to do with Mithras). See H.D. Betz, The Greek magical papyri in
            translation, I, Chicago, 2nd ed. 1992, pp. 48 ff..
            >
            > Best, Mike.
            Michael Chase
            (goya@...)
            CNRS UPR 76/
            l'Annee Philologique
            Villejuif-Paris
            France




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          • Al Billings
            ... around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase another fragment of Mithraic
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 8, 2003
              > Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming back
              around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely
              conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase another fragment of
              Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and recently indentified and
              published. I don't have the refernce to hand now, but if any one is
              interested I'll post it tonight.


              I'd love to see the reference.

              Al
            • bradley Skene
              Brashear, W. M., A Mithraic Catechism from Egypt (Vienna: Adolf Holzhausens, 1992). The text is quite brief and appears on p. 18, with the
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 9, 2003
                Brashear, W. M., A Mithraic Catechism from Egypt <P.Berol. 21196> (Vienna: Adolf Holzhausens, 1992).



                The text is quite brief and appears on p. 18, with the translation of the facing page.

                Here is the translation:

                recto

                �He will say: �Where�?�

                �...he is there at a loss?� Say:�

                Say: "Night.� He will say: �Where�?� �

                Say: "All things��

                He will say: "�You are called�?� Say: "Because of the summery [therin�n]��

                �having become�he ahs the fiery�

                He will say: "�did you inherit?� Say: �In a pit [bothros].� He will say: �Where is your�?�

                Say: "�in the�Leontineion.� He will say: �Will you gird?� The Hea[venly]

                �Say: ��death." He will say: "Having girded yourself,�?�

                ��this has four tassels.�

                verso

                �Very sharp and��

                ��much.� He will say: ��?�

                Say: ��through hot and cold.� He will say: ��?�

                Say: ��red�linen.� He will say: �Why?� Say:

                ��red border; the linen, however,��

                He will say: ��has been wrapped?� Say: �The savior�s��

                He will say: �Who is the father?� Say: �The one who begets everything�� He will say: �How�?�

                did you become a Leo?� Say: "By the�of the father.��

                Say: �Drink and Food.� He will say: ��?�

                ��in the seven��

                Several line are missing at both the top and bottom of the tiny papyrus fragment. As nearly as Brashear can make out, this is the script that a Mithraic initiate into the grade of Leo had to memorize and participate in as a ritual drama of initiation.


                Al Billings <boreas@...> wrote:> Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming back
                around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely
                conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase another fragment of
                Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and recently indentified and
                published. I don't have the refernce to hand now, but if any one is
                interested I'll post it tonight.


                I'd love to see the reference.

                Al


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              • Yvan Bubloz
                Do not leave us in the ignorance of this text! I think I m not the only one to be interested in the reference of the fragment you mentioned. Could you also
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 10, 2003
                  Do not leave us in the ignorance of this text! I think I'm not the only one
                  to be interested in the reference of the fragment you mentioned. Could you
                  also give us the reference of the works of Beck and Gordon about the
                  Mithrasliturgie? Thank you.

                  With best wishes,

                  Yvan Bubloz

                  ______________________________________________
                  Yvan Bubloz
                  Universite de Lausanne
                  Faculte de theologie
                  Section des sciences des religions


                  -----Message d'origine-----
                  De : bradley Skene [mailto:malkhos@...]
                  Envoye : lundi, 8. septembre 2003 20:30
                  A : neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
                  Objet : [neoplatonism] Mithras (was: Clement of Alexandria
                  Quotation/Themistius' On The Soul)


                  Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming back
                  around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be closely
                  conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase another fragment of
                  Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and recently indentified and
                  published. I don't have the refernce to hand now, but if any one is
                  interested I'll post it tonight.

                  Michael Chase <goya@...> wrote:
                  As far as the mysteries are concerned, you might be interested in a
                  passage from the Greek Magical Papyri, IV, 475-824, describing a
                  philosophical-religious intiation in mystery terminology, complete with
                  actors, puppets, and special effects galore (this is the text Dieterich
                  studied in his book Eine Mithrasliturgie, although in fact it has
                  nothing to do with Mithras). See H.D. Betz, The Greek magical papyri in
                  translation, I, Chicago, 2nd ed. 1992, pp. 48 ff..
                  >
                  > Best, Mike.
                  Michael Chase
                  (goya@...)
                  CNRS UPR 76/
                  l'Annee Philologique
                  Villejuif-Paris
                  France




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                • vaeringjar
                  Thanks, Msrs Chase and Skene et all again, especially for the new Mithras fragment from Egypt! I have been moving for the last month and way behind on this
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 25, 2003
                    Thanks, Msrs Chase and Skene et all again, especially for the new
                    Mithras fragment from Egypt! I have been moving for the last month
                    and way behind on this list. Somewhere here in the many boxes of
                    books I have a copy of the sogenannte Mithrasliturige, and also (who
                    knows where) <Mithras Platonicus> by Turcan, which I have yet to read
                    and wonder if it might also shed some light on this same subject. If
                    I can dig out the Mithrasliturgie I will try to post it.

                    I was fortunate enoough when in grad school in Classics to study with
                    the late E. David Francis, who was much involved in the '70's in
                    Mithraic studies, and who actually organized a class for us in just
                    that. I suspect it was one of the few times such a course was ever
                    offerred anywhere in just Mithraism. Somewhere also are many notes
                    from his incredible lectures - he was probably the most gifted
                    lecturer I ever encountered in my academic career.

                    Dennis Clark
                    San Francisco



                    --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, bradley Skene <malkhos@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming
                    back around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be
                    closely conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase
                    another fragment of Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and
                    recently indentified and published. I don't have the refernce to hand
                    now, but if any one is interested I'll post it tonight.
                    >
                    > Michael Chase <goya@u...> wrote:
                    > As far as the mysteries are concerned, you might be
                    interested in a
                    > passage from the Greek Magical Papyri, IV, 475-824, describing a
                    > philosophical-religious intiation in mystery terminology, complete
                    with
                    > actors, puppets, and special effects galore (this is the text
                    Dieterich
                    > studied in his book Eine Mithrasliturgie, although in fact it has
                    > nothing to do with Mithras). See H.D. Betz, The Greek magical
                    papyri in
                    > translation, I, Chicago, 2nd ed. 1992, pp. 48 ff..
                    > >
                    > > Best, Mike.
                    > Michael Chase
                    > (goya@v...)
                    > CNRS UPR 76/
                    > l'Annee Philologique
                    > Villejuif-Paris
                    > France
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bradley Skene
                    Turcan s thesis is that our literary accounts of mithraism (esp. de antro) are highly unrelaiable becuase they have been so compeltely worked over to conform
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 26, 2003
                      Turcan's thesis is that our literary accounts of mithraism (esp. de antro) are highly unrelaiable becuase they have been so compeltely worked over to conform to the doctrines of middle Platonism. However, I am so sure. If the idea of Merkelbach (and developed in detail in Becks artilce in JHS (1998)) that Mithriasm was the creation of a single 'religious genius' would not such a person also be immersed in the thought world of middle Platonism?

                      B. Skene

                      vaeringjar <vaeringjar@...> wrote:
                      Thanks, Msrs Chase and Skene et all again, especially for the new
                      Mithras fragment from Egypt! I have been moving for the last month
                      and way behind on this list. Somewhere here in the many boxes of
                      books I have a copy of the sogenannte Mithrasliturige, and also (who
                      knows where) <Mithras Platonicus> by Turcan, which I have yet to read
                      and wonder if it might also shed some light on this same subject. If
                      I can dig out the Mithrasliturgie I will try to post it.

                      I was fortunate enoough when in grad school in Classics to study with
                      the late E. David Francis, who was much involved in the '70's in
                      Mithraic studies, and who actually organized a class for us in just
                      that. I suspect it was one of the few times such a course was ever
                      offerred anywhere in just Mithraism. Somewhere also are many notes
                      from his incredible lectures - he was probably the most gifted
                      lecturer I ever encountered in my academic career.

                      Dennis Clark
                      San Francisco



                      --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, bradley Skene <malkhos@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Actually, Mithraic specialists including Beck and Gordon are coming
                      back around to the idea that the Mithrasliturgie might indeed be
                      closely conencted to the Mysteries of Mithras, in part becuase
                      another fragment of Mithraic ritual has been discovered in Egypt, and
                      recently indentified and published. I don't have the refernce to hand
                      now, but if any one is interested I'll post it tonight.
                      >
                      > Michael Chase <goya@u...> wrote:
                      > As far as the mysteries are concerned, you might be
                      interested in a
                      > passage from the Greek Magical Papyri, IV, 475-824, describing a
                      > philosophical-religious intiation in mystery terminology, complete
                      with
                      > actors, puppets, and special effects galore (this is the text
                      Dieterich
                      > studied in his book Eine Mithrasliturgie, although in fact it has
                      > nothing to do with Mithras). See H.D. Betz, The Greek magical
                      papyri in
                      > translation, I, Chicago, 2nd ed. 1992, pp. 48 ff..
                      > >
                      > > Best, Mike.
                      > Michael Chase
                      > (goya@v...)
                      > CNRS UPR 76/
                      > l'Annee Philologique
                      > Villejuif-Paris
                      > France
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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