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Re: [neoplatonism] Re: Christian Platonists and Neoplatonists - Part 2 (Middle Ages)

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  • Curt Steinmetz
    ... This suggests an even simpler solution - just call people what they called themselves (and what they were universally called by their contemporaries and by
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 15, 2008
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      Malcolm Schosha wrote:
      > Further, when it comes to someone like Marsilio Ficino, who translated and commented on Plotinus, Iamblichus, Proclus, and Hermias, it seems hard to avoid calling him a bona fide Neoplatonist. Terms like Neo-neoplatonist seem a bit much
      > :)
      >
      >

      This suggests an even simpler solution - just call people what they
      called themselves (and what they were universally called by their
      contemporaries and by everyone until quite recently): Platonists. If
      both Porphyry and Ficino can be Neoplatonists - why can't they simply be
      Platonists?

      It is clear that the "neo" prefix was first introduced (1) as a blatant
      anachronism, and (2) with a very un-scholarly value judgment attached to
      it. Why not just be done with it?

      Curt Steinmetz
    • vaeringjar
      ... 2 ... Busching then would precede Schleiermacher by about 30 years. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that when Schleiermacher - as a result of doing his
      Message 31 of 31 , Apr 16, 2008
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        --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd P. Gerson"
        <lloyd.gerson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Try A.F. Busching, Grundriss einer Geschichte der Philosophie, Band
        2
        > (Berlin, 1774).
        >
        > Quoting John Uebersax <john.uebersax@...>:
        >
        > > Christoph,
        > >
        > > Christoph Helmig wrote:
        > >
        > >> Some time ago someone told me that the term
        > >> "Neoplatonism" was actually coined by Thomas Taylor, the Platonist.
        > >> Does anyone know more about this, since I haven't found any passage
        > >> that could confirm this claim?

        Busching then would precede Schleiermacher by about 30 years. I
        assumed, perhaps wrongly, that when Schleiermacher - as a result of
        doing his translations of Plato, I think - attempted to separate out
        the Plato of the dialogues from all else "Platonic", he was also
        responsible for the introduction of the term "Neoplatonism". But I have
        not read anything of Schleiermacher in his own words, merely reports of
        him in modern scholarship.

        As we have discussed before, though not recently, it also much depends
        on what you mean by "Platonism". If you discard the Unwritten
        Doctrines, then Neoplatonism is much different. If you don't - and
        personally I don't see how you can discard them at all - then
        Neoplatonism is much more a development of his original ideas than
        something new.

        My question lately is more about how the realm of the Intellect,
        starting in Plotinus, gained such prominence in Neoplatonism. It seems
        to me there is less in Plato to justify this than some other major
        features. Granted the Ideas are not of the sensible world, but where is
        the major focus on Mind itself in Plato, to the degree it is already in
        Plotinus, granted a hypostasis of its own? Not really in the Timaeus,
        is it? The Demiurge there isn't really that intellectual, is it? Lots
        more there about soul and souls, right? Certainly nothing I know of
        about Intellect in the Unwritten Doctrines, unless of course there was
        something just not included in the later reports.

        It's Anaxagoras who comes to mind (excuse the expression) more readily
        than Plato in this regard, isn't it? Yet I don't recall every reading
        any mention of Anaxagoras as an influence on Neoplatonic thought. Which
        may of course just be another Bildungsloch on my part. I would as usual
        be happily corrected if wrong.

        Dennis Clark
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