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  • Cosmin I. Andron
    Some titles on related issues some of you might find of interest: - Cumont, Franz. After Life in Roman Paganism, Gorgias Press, $28.00
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 7, 2003
      Some titles on related issues some of you might find of interest:

      - Cumont, Franz. After Life in Roman Paganism, Gorgias Press, $28.00
      [http://www.gorgiaspress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?&store_code=GPB&scree
      n=PROD&product_code=1-931956-37-5]

      - Assemani, Joseph. De Catholicis seu Patriarchis Chaldaerum et
      Nestorianorum Commentatius, Gorgias Press (forthcoming), $60.00
      [http://www.gorgiaspress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Cod
      e=GPB&Product_Code=2002-50+Forthcoming&Category_Code=Syr]

      - Calverley, Edwin. Worship in Islam: Al-Ghazzali's Book of the Ihya On
      the Worship, Gorgias Press, $24.00
      [http://www.gorgiaspress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Cod
      e=GPB&Product_Code=2002-93+Forthcoming&Category_Code=Rel]


      With every best wish, yours
      Cosmin

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Cosmin I. Andron BA, MA (Cluj), PhD cand.

      Department of Classics
      Royal Holloway College
      University of London
      Egham
      Surrey TW20 OEX
      England

      Phone: 0044 (0) 7759 188 337
      Email: C.I.Andron@...

      Web page: www.cosmin-andron.com




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    • ytl
      I am surprised to see al-Ghazali, Ihya Ulum al-Din, section on prayer, appear on this list; I don t see how that qualifies as neoplatonic. If readers are
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 8, 2003
        I am surprised to see al-Ghazali, Ihya 'Ulum al-Din, section on prayer,
        appear on this list; I don't see how that qualifies as neoplatonic. If
        readers are interested in Islamic brands of neoplatonism, one could provide
        an extensive list--it's a burgeoning field. See, for example, a series of
        books by Paul Walker on the subject, or Neoplatonism and Islamic Thought,
        edited by P. Morewedge. Yours truly has published a modest piece on a
        Hebrewtranslation of the Arabic Theology of Aristotle, a book that is based
        ultimately on the Enneads, for the most part. A queryon Iamblichus' theory
        of time that I posted some time ago was prompted by a discussion in an
        Arabic text that, to my mind, strongly suggests that Iamblichus' idea of a
        three-tiered time was known and discussed in Islamic circles--something that
        has not been noted in the literature, to the best of my knowledge.


        Tzvi Langermann
        Dept of Arabic
        Bar Ilan University
        Ramat Gan, ISRAEL
        tel/fax: 972-2-673-3480
      • Cosmin I. Andron
        Dear Dr. Langermann, I will try to address each question you pose in your recent message: [1.] As its description says the mailing list is dedicated to all
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 8, 2003
          Dear Dr. Langermann,


          I will try to address each question you pose in your recent message:

          [1.] As its 'description' says the mailing list is 'dedicated to all
          facets of Platonism'. I post book titles, article titles, etc as they
          reach my hand or I receive notices about them. I am myself not an expert
          in the Platonic tradition as a whole, not even on the Greek tradition as
          a whole. My research interest lies in Late Platonism though my personal
          interest is much wider. Therefore I cannot claim competence in more than
          a few very detailed aspects of this philosophical trend.

          However I am still able to answer the question: 'I don't see how that
          qualifies as neoplatonic' (viz. al-Ghazali, Ihya 'Ulum al-Din...) In his
          own right al-Ghazali is a part of the platonic tradition, as much as
          Gabirol is for example. If I have posted a notice on Augustine no one
          would have wondered what has this to do with Neoplatonism -- it is
          agreed that Augustine's theology is shaped <also> by Platonic elements.
          A new edition of 'De Doctrina Christiana', had it reached recently my
          desk, would have been noted and I guess with no protests. And I would
          have posted it not only because Augustine is a Christian Platonist, but
          also because, despite its title and chief content, De doctr. chr. is
          about how pagan elements are to be employed by the Christian faith,
          philosophy in special (book II). The same works for al-Ghazali and how
          Greek pagan elements are to be employed in one's theology (mystical
          ethic in this case).

          [2.] <<If readers are interested in Islamic brands of neoplatonism>>
          As far as I know at least two scholars who are on this list (except
          yourself) have an explicit research interest, record and expertise in
          Jewish and Arab Platonism, so yes, indeed some of us are interested also
          in non-Greek Neoplatonism. At the end of the day there is more to
          Neoplatonism than Plotinus and Proclus, even within the Greek tradition,
          let alone other!!

          [3.] <<one could provide an extensive list--it's a burgeoning field.>>
          Please do so and let others know when relevant material (either authored
          by yourself or others) becomes available. It is hard to keep up with the
          avalanche of publications in all languages and all over the world.
          Starting this list I hoped to find out what's going on 'out there',
          beyond the walls of my office and my library... Therefore, when new
          titles reach me (or new editions of old works) I compile a message and I
          post it on the list. [e.g. without the RE: of M. Fauquier I would have
          probably missed a book treating a subject I am interested in:
          F.Tazzolio, Du lien de l'un et de l'être chez Plotin, L'Harmattan, 2002]

          [4.] <<See, for example, a series of books by Paul Walker on the
          subject, or Neoplatonism and Islamic Thought, edited by P. Morewedge.>>
          This strengthens my point. The latter book is more or less a child of
          the 'International Society for Neoplatonic Studies' [http://www.isns.us]
          of which Prof. Morewedge is one of the Directors.

          [5.] On the 'Neoplatonism Online' website I started a 'testing bench'
          journal where one can post either already published material or material
          on which would like to receive feedback. There is no subject restriction
          as long as it is relevant to the Platonic tradition (Ancient or Modern -
          Pagan, Christian, Jewish or Muslim).

          [6.] <<A query on Iamblichus' theory of time that I posted some time
          ago>>: i.e. (11/12/2002)
          <<instead of "word" the translation has "world". >> - Yes.
          <<Is this an example of the (questionable?) etymologies (...)>> - many
          etymologies are 'invented' to suit explanations (philologists may clear
          this up) <<Are there are any sources that can confirm (or refute)
          this?>> See also Simpl. in Phys. 705.5-9, 775.10 ff also Procl. in Tim.
          III 28.14 ff; 146 ff (the source of these must be Plato's Tim.)

          [7.] <<a discussion in an Arabic text that, to my mind, strongly
          suggests that Iamblichus' idea of a three-tiered time was known and
          discussed in Islamic circles--something that has not been noted in the
          literature, to the best of my knowledge. >> Please feel free to let us
          know more -- I for one am most interested. You can also publish online
          any material you have on this issue (or related) at:
          http://www.neoplatonism.org/journal/

          I hope this message answered your questions.

          With every best wish, yours
          Cosmin Andron


          ~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Cosmin I. Andron BA, MA (Cluj), PhD cand.

          Department of Classics
          Royal Holloway College
          University of London
          Egham
          Surrey TW20 OEX
          England

          Phone: 0044 (0) 7759 188 337
          Email: C.I.Andron@...

          Web page: www.cosmin-andron.com




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        • Icastes
          Cosmin Andron writes: [snip] [2.] As far as I know at least two scholars who are on this list
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 9, 2003
            Cosmin Andron writes:

            [snip]

            [2.] <<If readers are interested in Islamic brands of neoplatonism>>
            As far as I know at least two scholars who are on this list (except
            yourself) have an explicit research interest, record and expertise in
            Jewish and Arab Platonism, so yes, indeed some of us are interested also
            in non-Greek Neoplatonism. At the end of the day there is more to
            Neoplatonism than Plotinus and Proclus, even within the Greek tradition,
            let alone other!!


            [snip]

            Extending Platonism to al-Ghazali and other members of the Mutakallimum is
            stretching it a bit, nevertheless. As Plato's philosophy is comprehensive
            and includes a great critique of what went before him as well, there is a
            tendency to find Plato in all philosophy however it is construed. The
            neo-Platonists (a misnonmer, as they are Platonists), however, have very
            little in common with al-Ghazali and the Mutakallimum. The Platonists, for
            example, are not atomists. They do not regard the world consisting of atoms
            shaped like cubes. There is nothing in Platonism that believes that the
            entire world is inscrutable and that the only insight in the world we have
            comes from the Quran. I think a bit of research would show far less
            influence from the Platonists, as from an active effort to refute the
            Aristotlean tradition of cosmology, which latter Platonists may have
            adopted, but never attempted to overthrow as the Mutakallimum tried to do.


            Best regards,

            Kalev Pehme


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cosmin I. Andron
            ... - Yes and No. As far as I am concerned a Platonist is one who (i.) uses Platonic arguments in defending his own thesis and/or (ii.) who devises a
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 9, 2003
              Kalev Pehme writes:

              >Extending Platonism to al-Ghazali and other members of the Mutakallimum
              >is stretching it a bit, nevertheless. As Plato's philosophy is
              >comprehensive and includes a great critique of what went before him as
              >well, there is a tendency to find Plato in all philosophy however it is

              >construed.

              - Yes and No. As far as I am concerned a Platonist is one who (i.) uses
              Platonic arguments in defending his own thesis and/or (ii.) who devises
              a philosophical position influenced/based on Platonic texts. al-Ghazali
              is found 'guilty' at least of (i.). [a reasonable definition of what
              Greek Neoplatonism entails one can find (though not necessarily agree)
              in Ph. Merlan's 'From Platonism to Neoplatonism', the Hague 1968 p.1
              footnote *]

              - There is more use of Plato's arguments not to criticize 'what went
              before him' but after him. Plotinus and Proclus are the most known
              examples.

              - There might be, indeed, 'a tendency to find Plato in all philosophy
              however it is construed' but here is not only about Plato only. Ficino's
              Platonism, for example, is more Plotinian than 'Platonic'.

              >There is nothing in Platonism that believes that the
              >entire world is inscrutable

              - Yes there is. Philosophy is not the highest type of human knowledge,
              and to this testify on one side (at least) Iamblichus and Isidorus and
              on the other, if I am not mistaken, al-Ghazali himself.

              >and that the only insight in the world we have
              >comes from the Quran.

              - If not straight from the God himself, from the Oracles or from the
              Holy Scriptures -- depends on the religion of individual philosophers

              >I think a bit of research would show far less
              >influence from the Platonists, as from an active effort to refute the
              >Aristotlean tradition of cosmology, which latter Platonists may have
              >adopted, but never attempted to overthrow as the Mutakallimum tried to
              >do.

              - Philoponus' influence on al-Ghazali is one of the examples that comes
              to my mind.

              - However I will stop here since Arab philosophy (Platonic or not) is
              not really 'my cup of tea'. Still I believe that al-Gazali's name is
              reasonably linked to the Platonic tradition. That 'Ihya 'Ulum al-Din' is
              or not 'Neoplatonic' I have no competence to judge. Nevertheless, as one
              who read 'Tahafut al Falasifa' (in English) I was interested to see
              how/if there is more to al-Ghazali than that, as I one might have tried
              to read more from Origen than De. Princ.

              Last but not least, the three titles were introduced as: 'on related
              issues some of you might find of interest' rather than as Neoplatonic
              trademarks, and mentioned because were either forthcoming or recently
              published/reissued.

              With every best wish, yours
              Cosmin Andron


              ~~~~~~~~~~~~

              Cosmin I. Andron BA, MA (Cluj), PhD cand.

              Department of Classics
              Royal Holloway College
              University of London
              Egham
              Surrey TW20 OEX
              England

              Phone: 0044 (0) 7759 188 337
              Email: C.I.Andron@...

              Web page: www.cosmin-andron.com




              -----Original Message-----
              From: Icastes [mailto:pehme@...]
              Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:08 PM
              To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [neoplatonism] al-Ghazali et al.


              Cosmin Andron writes:

              [snip]

              [2.] <<If readers are interested in Islamic brands of neoplatonism>>
              As far as I know at least two scholars who are on this list (except
              yourself) have an explicit research interest, record and expertise in
              Jewish and Arab Platonism, so yes, indeed some of us are interested
              also
              in non-Greek Neoplatonism. At the end of the day there is more to
              Neoplatonism than Plotinus and Proclus, even within the Greek
              tradition,
              let alone other!!


              [snip]

              Extending Platonism to al-Ghazali and other members of the Mutakallimum
              is stretching it a bit, nevertheless. As Plato's philosophy is
              comprehensive and includes a great critique of what went before him as
              well, there is a tendency to find Plato in all philosophy however it is
              construed. The neo-Platonists (a misnonmer, as they are Platonists),
              however, have very little in common with al-Ghazali and the
              Mutakallimum. The Platonists, for example, are not atomists. They do not
              regard the world consisting of atoms shaped like cubes. There is nothing
              in Platonism that believes that the entire world is inscrutable and that
              the only insight in the world we have comes from the Quran. I think a
              bit of research would show far less influence from the Platonists, as
              from an active effort to refute the Aristotlean tradition of cosmology,
              which latter Platonists may have adopted, but never attempted to
              overthrow as the Mutakallimum tried to do.


              Best regards,

              Kalev Pehme


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            • Cosmin I. Andron
              - Apuleius, Metamorphoses, book X / Apuleius Madaurensis ; text, introduction and commentary, M. Zimmerman, Groningen commentaries on Apuleius, Groningen : E.
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 31, 2003
                - Apuleius, Metamorphoses, book X / Apuleius Madaurensis ; text,
                introduction and commentary, M. Zimmerman, Groningen commentaries on
                Apuleius, Groningen : E. Forsten, 2000. 487 p.

                - O'Brien, Maeve C., Apuleius' debt to Plato in the Metamorphoses.,
                Lewiston, N.Y.; Lampeter : Edwin Mellen, 2003.

                - Pamphilus et Eusèbe de Césarée, Apologie pour Origéne suivi de Sur la
                falsification des livres d'Origéne / Rufin d'Aquilée ; texte critique,
                traduction et notes par René Amacker et Éric Junod. Paris : Les
                Éditions du Cerf, 2002. vol. 1&2



                With every best wish, yours
                Cosmin


                ~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Cosmin I. Andron BA, MA (Cluj), PhD cand.

                Department of Classics
                Royal Holloway College
                University of London
                Egham
                Surrey TW20 OEX
                England

                Phone: 0044 (0) 7759 188 337
                Email: C.I.Andron@...

                Web page: www.cosmin-andron.com




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