Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Reading Plato in Antiquity

Expand Messages
  • vaeringjar
    I was curious about the titles of the essays in this new volume. I can t seem to find them online anywhere, though the list of authors is available at several
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      I was curious about the titles of the essays in this new volume. I
      can't seem to find them online anywhere, though the list of authors
      is available at several sites. Here is the blurb from Oxbow Books'
      website - note the typo for "Iamblichus"!

      Reading Plato in Antiquity
      edited by Harold Tarrant and Dirk Baltzly
      This important collection of original essays is the first
      to concentrate at length on how the ancients responded
      to the challenge of reading and interpreting Plato,
      primarily between 100 BC and AD 600. It incorporates
      recent research into late antique philosophy, in particular
      its approach to hermeneutical problems. While
      a number of prominent figures, including Apuleius,
      Galen, Plotinus, Porphyry and Lamblichus, receive detailed
      attention, several essays concentrate on the figure
      of Proclus, in whom Neoplatonic interpretation reaches
      its most impressive, surprising, and challenging form.
      Contributors: Haydon Ausland; Luc Brission; Tim
      Buckley; John Cleary; John Dillon; John Finamore;
      Lloyd Gerson; Marije Martijn; Ken Parry; John Phillips;
      Julius Rocca; Richard Sorabji; Atsushi Sumi. 256p
      (Duckworth 2006) 0715634550 Hb £50.00

      The link to Duckworth - the blurb there also has a graphic of the
      cover - is this also perhaps an illustration for the (in)famous
      banquet scene in Quebec?

      http://www.duckw.com/academic/title.php?titleissue_id=807

      Who gets to choose the covers for this type book, the editor(s)? Are
      essays for volumes like these commissioned beforehand? How does that
      work? Or do the contributors get together informally and group essays
      on similar topics and then submit them en masse for publication? Just
      curious about the process.

      I am particularly interested in the titles of the essay(s?) on my new
      constant companion, "Lamblichus". Thanks.

      Dennis Clark
      Issaquah
    • Harold Tarrant
      Dear Dennis and All, Perhaps I can set the record straight.... The contents is as follows (from a pre-copy-edited version, so typos possible): Introduction
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Dennis and All,

        Perhaps I can set the record straight....

        The contents is as follows (from a pre-copy-edited version, so typos possible):

        Introduction
        Harold Tarrant & Dirk Baltzly

        1. Platonic interpretation and eclectic theory
        Harold Tarrant
        2. Pedantry and pedestrianism? Some reflections on the Middle Platonic commentary tradition
        John Dillon
        3. Apuleius on Platonic gods
        John F. Finamore
        4. 'Plato will tell you': Galen's use of the Phaedrus in De Placitis Hippocratis et Platonis IX
        Julius Rocca
        5. Platonists on the origin of evil
        John Phillips
        6. The species infima as the infinite: Timaeus 39E7-9, Parmenides 144B4-C1 and Philebus 16E1-2 in Plotinus Ennead VI 2 (43) 22
        Atsushi Sumi
        7. The doctrine of the degrees of virtues in the Neoplatonists: an analysis of Porphyry's Sentence 32, its antecedents and its heritage
        Luc Brisson
        8. The mathematics of justice
        Hayden W. Ausland
        9. A historical cycle of hermeneutics in Proclus' Platonic Theology
        Tim Buckley
        10. Proclus as a reader of Plato's Timaeus
        John J. Cleary
        11. The eikôs mythos in Proclus' commentary on the Timaeus
        Marije Martijn
        12. Pathways to purification: the cathartic virtues in the Neoplatonic commentary tradition
        Dirk Baltzly
        13. The transformation of Plato and Aristotle
        Richard Sorabji
        14. The harmony of Plato and Aristotle according to Neoplatonism
        Lloyd P. Gerson
        15. Reading Proclus in Byzantium
        Ken Parry

        Notes
        Bibliography
        Indices

        The cover was a joint decision inspired by the concept of a Bacchanalian succession of Successors (so to speak) discussed in essay 9; we were a little tired of mere pictures of Plato, whose somewhat aloof visage does however appear in the top right and on the spine. And (naturally) we wanted to offer everybody a positive orgy of Platonic hermeneutics.

        And (sorry Dennis) the blurb on the spine makes reference rather to the known figure of Iamblichus, so we cannot provide you with an exciting new figure this time.

        Cheers,

        Harold

        Prof. Harold Tarrant,
        School of Liberal Arts,
        University of Newcastle,
        [Cricos provider number 00109J]
        NSW 2308 Australia
        Ph: (+61) 2 49215230/49215227
        Fax: (+61) 2 49216940
        *Eu Prattein*

        >>> vaeringjar@... 08/03/06 5:02 am >>>
        I was curious about the titles of the essays in this new volume. I
        can't seem to find them online anywhere, though the list of authors
        is available at several sites. Here is the blurb from Oxbow Books'
        website - note the typo for "Iamblichus"!

        Reading Plato in Antiquity
        edited by Harold Tarrant and Dirk Baltzly
        This important collection of original essays is the first
        to concentrate at length on how the ancients responded
        to the challenge of reading and interpreting Plato,
        primarily between 100 BC and AD 600. It incorporates
        recent research into late antique philosophy, in particular
        its approach to hermeneutical problems. While
        a number of prominent figures, including Apuleius,
        Galen, Plotinus, Porphyry and Lamblichus, receive detailed
        attention, several essays concentrate on the figure
        of Proclus, in whom Neoplatonic interpretation reaches
        its most impressive, surprising, and challenging form.
        Contributors: Haydon Ausland; Luc Brission; Tim
        Buckley; John Cleary; John Dillon; John Finamore;
        Lloyd Gerson; Marije Martijn; Ken Parry; John Phillips;
        Julius Rocca; Richard Sorabji; Atsushi Sumi. 256p
        (Duckworth 2006) 0715634550 Hb £50.00

        The link to Duckworth - the blurb there also has a graphic of the
        cover - is this also perhaps an illustration for the (in)famous
        banquet scene in Quebec?

        http://www.duckw.com/academic/title.php?titleissue_id=807

        Who gets to choose the covers for this type book, the editor(s)? Are
        essays for volumes like these commissioned beforehand? How does that
        work? Or do the contributors get together informally and group essays
        on similar topics and then submit them en masse for publication? Just
        curious about the process.

        I am particularly interested in the titles of the essay(s?) on my new
        constant companion, "Lamblichus". Thanks.

        Dennis Clark
        Issaquah






        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • vaeringjar
        ... Platonic commentary tradition ... Placitis Hippocratis et Platonis IX ... 144B4-C1 and Philebus 16E1-2 in Plotinus Ennead VI 2 (43) 22 ... analysis of
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Harold Tarrant
          <Harold.Tarrant@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Dennis and All,
          >
          > Perhaps I can set the record straight....
          >
          > The contents is as follows (from a pre-copy-edited version, so
          typos possible):
          >
          > Introduction
          > Harold Tarrant & Dirk Baltzly
          >
          > 1. Platonic interpretation and eclectic theory
          > Harold Tarrant
          > 2. Pedantry and pedestrianism? Some reflections on the Middle
          Platonic commentary tradition
          > John Dillon
          > 3. Apuleius on Platonic gods
          > John F. Finamore
          > 4. 'Plato will tell you': Galen's use of the Phaedrus in De
          Placitis Hippocratis et Platonis IX
          > Julius Rocca
          > 5. Platonists on the origin of evil
          > John Phillips
          > 6. The species infima as the infinite: Timaeus 39E7-9, Parmenides
          144B4-C1 and Philebus 16E1-2 in Plotinus Ennead VI 2 (43) 22
          > Atsushi Sumi
          > 7. The doctrine of the degrees of virtues in the Neoplatonists: an
          analysis of Porphyry's Sentence 32, its antecedents and its heritage
          > Luc Brisson
          > 8. The mathematics of justice
          > Hayden W. Ausland
          > 9. A historical cycle of hermeneutics in Proclus' Platonic Theology
          > Tim Buckley
          > 10. Proclus as a reader of Plato's Timaeus
          > John J. Cleary
          > 11. The eikôs mythos in Proclus' commentary on the Timaeus
          > Marije Martijn
          > 12. Pathways to purification: the cathartic virtues in the
          Neoplatonic commentary tradition
          > Dirk Baltzly
          > 13. The transformation of Plato and Aristotle
          > Richard Sorabji
          > 14. The harmony of Plato and Aristotle according to Neoplatonism
          > Lloyd P. Gerson
          > 15. Reading Proclus in Byzantium
          > Ken Parry
          >
          > Notes
          > Bibliography
          > Indices
          >
          > The cover was a joint decision inspired by the concept of a
          Bacchanalian succession of Successors (so to speak) discussed in
          essay 9; we were a little tired of mere pictures of Plato, whose
          somewhat aloof visage does however appear in the top right and on the
          spine. And (naturally) we wanted to offer everybody a positive orgy
          of Platonic hermeneutics.
          >
          > And (sorry Dennis) the blurb on the spine makes reference rather to
          the known figure of Iamblichus, so we cannot provide you with an
          exciting new figure this time.
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Harold
          >
          > Prof. Harold Tarrant,
          > School of Liberal Arts,
          > University of Newcastle,
          > [Cricos provider number 00109J]
          > NSW 2308 Australia
          > Ph: (+61) 2 49215230/49215227
          > Fax: (+61) 2 49216940
          > *Eu Prattein*
          >

          Thanks for taking the time to post the details, Prof. Tarrant. Many
          interesting items, and especially nice to see something on Apuleius,
          someone I have always meant to delve into much more than I have.

          I have my hands full with the original Iamblichus, so I am relieved
          not to have to chase after any doppelganger also. In working on this
          piece on DM VIII I hope I haven't bitten off more than I should -
          rooting around on the Egyptological side - can't believe I am
          actually coping with articles filled with hieroglyphs, which
          fortunately for me I don't need to understand - the hieroglyphs,
          that is - for my own work. To say nothing of a seemingly open-ended
          trail on the Greek side - now I have gotten off into all this Gnostic
          material where parallels with Iamblichus have been seen - the
          Marsanes, the Ogdoad and the Ennead. I have never actually studied
          these texts in detail, and certainly for this adventure hadn't
          intended to just now, but fortunately Prof Finamore once again
          provides some very useful help in these areas. Talk about
          the "Platonic Underworld" - it's all very tantalizing, easy to sense
          all sorts of undercurrents and connections, but not at all so easy
          actually to prove in specific cases of doctrine.

          Not that I am taking on that chore with the Gnostics right now, but
          this has been my first real encounter with that curious world. Too
          bad we are missing so much of the background on exactly how Platonic
          ideas got disseminated into this fertile area and exactly how these
          rather fantastic systems developed and apparently gained sizeable
          popularity - though I don't personally find all these Aeons and
          Barbelo's etc necessarily attractive (also actually the more I delve
          into later Platonism, despite my interest in it, I think it all
          rather makes me long for the relative spareness and elegance of
          Plotinus), it is still fascinating to see the religious phenonemon,
          or at least the results of it in these strange texts, spreading out
          its often very Platonic wings.

          By the way, I noticed this new book at Scholar's Bookshelf also:

          CULTURE AND PHILOSOPHY IN THE AGE OF PLOTINUS by Mark Edwards. A
          survey of the teachings of, and relations between, Longinus,
          Plotinus, Porphyry, and Iamblichus, documenting and explaining the
          coalescence of Aristotelian and Platonic elements in the Platonic
          tradition before the 3rd century. 2006: 192 pages, softcover.
          (Oxford)
          ISBN:0715635638
          7GTF
          List Price: $31.00 SPECIAL: $24.50
          Savings: $6.50

          Has anyone had a chance to read it yet? Sounds interesting - not sure
          if he gets into the Gnostic side though, just from reading this blurb
          from scholarsbookshelf.com. (If you try to order it from them, they
          will tell you it's "back-ordered" - often that means you will never
          see the book delivered - but I gave it a try anyway.)

          Dennis Clark
          Issaquah
        • Michael Chase
          ... M.C. I take it you re familar with John Turner s work, which is fundamental. Here are another couple of books you might be interested in : Tardieu, Michel
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            > >
            >
            > Thanks for taking the time to post the details, Prof. Tarrant. Many
            > interesting items, and especially nice to see something on Apuleius,
            > someone I have always meant to delve into much more than I have.
            >
            > I have my hands full with the original Iamblichus, so I am relieved
            > not to have to chase after any doppelganger also. In working on this
            > piece on DM VIII I hope I haven't bitten off more than I should -
            > rooting around on the Egyptological side - can't believe I am
            > actually coping with articles filled with hieroglyphs, which
            > fortunately for me I don't need to understand - the hieroglyphs,
            > that is - for my own work. To say nothing of a seemingly open-ended
            > trail on the Greek side - now I have gotten off into all this Gnostic
            > material where parallels with Iamblichus have been seen - the
            > Marsanes, the Ogdoad and the Ennead. I have never actually studied
            > these texts in detail, and certainly for this adventure hadn't
            > intended to just now, but fortunately Prof Finamore once again
            > provides some very useful help in these areas. Talk about
            > the "Platonic Underworld" - it's all very tantalizing, easy to sense
            > all sorts of undercurrents and connections, but not at all so easy
            > actually to prove in specific cases of doctrine.

            M.C. I take it you're familar with John Turner's work, which is
            fundamental. Here are another couple of books you might be interested
            in :

            Tardieu, Michel , Recherches sur la formation de l'Apocalypse de
            Zostrien et les sources de Marius Victorinus. Pierre Hadot, « Porphyre
            et Victorinus » : questions et hypothèses, Leuven 1996. (Res orientales
            ; 9).

            Mahe, Jean-Pierre, Hermes en Haute-Egypte. Les textes hermétiques de
            Nag Hammadi et leurs paralleles grecs et latins, 2 vols., Laval,
            Quebec, 1978 f.

            --- see esp. pp. 47-52, La triade ; Inengendre, Autogene, Engendre.

            Finally, if you read Spanish and can find them, have a look at the
            five vols. of Antonio Orbe's Estudios Valentinianos.

            >
            > Not that I am taking on that chore with the Gnostics right now, but
            > this has been my first real encounter with that curious world. Too
            > bad we are missing so much of the background on exactly how Platonic
            > ideas got disseminated into this fertile area and exactly how these
            > rather fantastic systems developed and apparently gained sizeable
            > popularity - though I don't personally find all these Aeons and
            > Barbelo's etc necessarily attractive (also actually the more I delve
            > into later Platonism, despite my interest in it, I think it all
            > rather makes me long for the relative spareness and elegance of
            > Plotinus), it is still fascinating to see the religious phenonemon,
            > or at least the results of it in these strange texts, spreading out
            > its often very Platonic wings.
            >
            > By the way, I noticed this new book at Scholar's Bookshelf also:
            >
            > CULTURE AND PHILOSOPHY IN THE AGE OF PLOTINUS by Mark Edwards. A
            > survey of the teachings of, and relations between, Longinus,
            > Plotinus, Porphyry, and Iamblichus, documenting and explaining the
            > coalescence of Aristotelian and Platonic elements in the Platonic
            > tradition before the 3rd century. 2006: 192 pages, softcover.
            > (Oxford)
            > ISBN:0715635638
            > 7GTF
            > List Price: $31.00 SPECIAL: $24.50
            > Savings: $6.50
            >
            > Has anyone had a chance to read it yet? Sounds interesting - not sure
            > if he gets into the Gnostic side though, just from reading this blurb
            > from scholarsbookshelf.com. (If you try to order it from them, they
            > will tell you it's "back-ordered" - often that means you will never
            > see the book delivered - but I gave it a try anyway.)

            M.C. I suspect that means it hasn't been published yet.

            Best, Mike.

            >
            Michael Chase
            (goya@...)
            CNRS UPR 76
            7, rue Guy Moquet
            Villejuif 94801
            France
          • vaeringjar
            ... interested ... Hadot, « Porphyre ... orientales ... hermétiques de ... Engendre. ... at the ... Thanks, Mike, for the references, especially the Tardieu
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              >
              > M.C. I take it you're familar with John Turner's work, which is
              > fundamental. Here are another couple of books you might be
              interested
              > in :
              >
              > Tardieu, Michel , Recherches sur la formation de l'Apocalypse de
              > Zostrien et les sources de Marius Victorinus. Pierre
              Hadot, « Porphyre
              > et Victorinus » : questions et hypothèses, Leuven 1996. (Res
              orientales
              > ; 9).
              >
              > Mahe, Jean-Pierre, Hermes en Haute-Egypte. Les textes
              hermétiques de
              > Nag Hammadi et leurs paralleles grecs et latins, 2 vols., Laval,
              > Quebec, 1978 f.
              >
              > --- see esp. pp. 47-52, La triade ; Inengendre, Autogene,
              Engendre.
              >
              > Finally, if you read Spanish and can find them, have a look
              at the
              > five vols. of Antonio Orbe's Estudios Valentinianos.
              >

              Thanks, Mike, for the references, especially the Tardieu - Mahe's
              edition I made a copy of last week, and will be quoting from in my
              piece - I had been meaning to read his work and now it has become a
              more pointed need. Though I recall vaguely some difference of opinion
              between him and someone else regarding some issue regarding the
              Hermetica or some such - I have a dim and likely garbled memory from
              reading Fowden on this, which I need to review for that point. I also
              need to find Festugiere's <Hermetisme et mystique paienne>, which
              oddly enough U of W doesn't have.

              Prof Turner has put a lot of his articles online at his university
              webpage, and in fact I printed them all out earlier this week. There
              are several relevant essays as it turns out in <Gnosticism and Later
              Platonism> ed. by Turner and Ruth Majercik, especially the one by
              Prof Finamore on Iamblichus and the Marsanes - I had this book
              already and only by accident found this essay, which is quite
              pertinent to my work, though I wouldn't have thought of looking in a
              book on Gnosticism for it. Bien trouve, and all the time upstairs on
              my own bookshelf...

              I was wondering, I googled Ms Majercik and I couldn't find any
              university webpage for her - does she currently teach anywhere? I
              have found her edition of the Chaldaean Oracles so useful, though it
              seems people still tend to quote from the des Places - is his edition
              considered preferable? That may be a loaded question, I do realize.

              > >
              > > By the way, I noticed this new book at Scholar's Bookshelf also:
              > >
              > > CULTURE AND PHILOSOPHY IN THE AGE OF PLOTINUS by Mark Edwards. A
              > > survey of the teachings of, and relations between, Longinus,
              > > Plotinus, Porphyry, and Iamblichus, documenting and explaining
              the
              > > coalescence of Aristotelian and Platonic elements in the Platonic
              > > tradition before the 3rd century. 2006: 192 pages, softcover.
              > > (Oxford)
              > > ISBN:0715635638
              > > 7GTF
              > > List Price: $31.00 SPECIAL: $24.50
              > > Savings: $6.50
              > >
              > > Has anyone had a chance to read it yet? Sounds interesting - not
              sure
              > > if he gets into the Gnostic side though, just from reading this
              blurb
              > > from scholarsbookshelf.com. (If you try to order it from them,
              they
              > > will tell you it's "back-ordered" - often that means you will
              never
              > > see the book delivered - but I gave it a try anyway.)
              >
              > M.C. I suspect that means it hasn't been published yet.
              >
              > Best, Mike.
              >


              Yes, in fact I looked at the OUP website later and this book isn't
              even listed there yet. Scholars' Bookshelf fooled me here, because in
              my experience they mostly handle remainders (they are a great and
              inexpensive source for the Commentators on Aristotle series, by the
              way - hit or miss or which volumes they carry, but worth a look from
              time to time) and I had never seen them offer books in advance of the
              published date, but they are on this one and also the essays edited
              by Prof Tarrant we discussed earlier.

              Dennis Clark
              Issaquah
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.