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Re: 'Olympiodori'?

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  • vaeringjar
    ... about ... John ... Monophysite ... philosophie ... Christianity, ... Clemens ... Christian ... doctrines such ... for the ... centuries, ... sects -- ...
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 20, 2006
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      --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Moore" <emoore@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Marilynn Lawrence" <pronoia@...>
      > To: <neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:38 PM
      > Subject: [neoplatonism] 'Olympiodori'?
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Curt recently wrote:
      > >
      > > "The article goes on for quite a bit after that - near the
      > > end there is the assertion that John Philoponus and
      > > Olympiodorus both converted to Christianity. Is there any
      > > evidence for this in the case of Olympiodorus? How about
      > > Philoponus?"
      >
      > I'll leave it to Marilynn or someone else to answer the question
      about
      > Olympiodorus/Olympodori. However, I can state with certainty that
      John
      > Philoponus was a Christian from birth -- albeit of a distinct
      Monophysite
      > character. While Basil Tatakis, in his comprehensive volume _La
      philosophie
      > byzantine_ (1949), insists that Philoponus had converted to
      Christianity,
      > later scholars have challenged this view. Etienne Evrard and
      Clemens
      > Scholten are the two that come to mind.
      >
      > > To make matters worse, around the 6th
      > > century it was not impossible for a Christian to have
      > > pagan tendencies. I was recently looking at a Christian
      > > astrological magic text that first invokes the Holy Virgin
      > > Theotokos then goes on to list the images and names of the
      > > angels and daimons associated with each planetary hour.
      >
      > Indeed, Stephanus of Alexandria, who was invited to teach at the
      Christian
      > Catechetical School at Constantinople around 610 A.D., taught
      doctrines such
      > as the pre-existence of souls, and the eternity of the world. As
      for the
      > worship of the Holy Virgin Mary ... this had been going on for
      centuries,
      > and was a major point of contention among the various Christian
      sects --
      > even after the so-called definitive Councils. Interestingly, Philo
      of
      > Alexandria, in the second book of his _Life of Moses_ (124),
      discusses how
      > the gems on the breast plate of the high priest correspond to the
      order of
      > the zodiac.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Edward
      >
      >
      >
      > Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D.
      > Dean of Faculty
      > Department of Philosophy
      > St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
      > Media, PA 19063
      > E-mail: emoore@...
      > Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore
      >

      Stephanus - there's one that's really just a name to me. Has much
      been done on him? I don't even know what - if anything - is extant of
      his writings, assuming he wrote anything at all.

      How on earth did he get away with believing in the Eternity of the
      World?

      Is he the Stephanus referred to, as in "Stephanus' page" of the text
      of Plato? Seems unlikely, but I have never actually asked this of
      anyone. More likely the name of a later editor, as in the
      Renaissance - ? Forgive my ignorance. Yet another Bildungsloch, and
      not the last.

      Dennis Clark
      Issaquah
    • Melanie B. Mineo
      Re the below, these may be relevant: MOSAICS AS MIDRASH: THE ZODIACS OF THE ANCIENT SYNAGOGUES AND THE CONFLICT BETWEEN JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY. By: Englard,
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 20, 2006
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        Re the below, these may be relevant:

        MOSAICS AS MIDRASH: THE ZODIACS OF THE ANCIENT SYNAGOGUES AND THE
        CONFLICT BETWEEN JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY. By: Englard, Yaffa. Review
        of Rabbinic Judaism, Jun2003, Vol. 6 Issue 2/3, p189-214.

        Helios in the Synagogue. By: Roussin, Lucille A.. Biblical Archaeology
        Review, Mar/Apr2001, Vol. 27 Issue 2, p52.

        --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Moore" <emoore@...> wrote:

        > > To make matters worse, around the 6th
        > > century it was not impossible for a Christian to have
        > > pagan tendencies. I was recently looking at a Christian
        > > astrological magic text that first invokes the Holy Virgin
        > > Theotokos then goes on to list the images and names of the
        > > angels and daimons associated with each planetary hour.
        >
        > Indeed, Stephanus of Alexandria, who was invited to teach at the
        Christian
        > Catechetical School at Constantinople around 610 A.D., taught
        doctrines such
        > as the pre-existence of souls, and the eternity of the world. As
        for the
        > worship of the Holy Virgin Mary ... this had been going on for
        centuries,
        > and was a major point of contention among the various Christian
        sects --
        > even after the so-called definitive Councils. Interestingly, Philo of
        > Alexandria, in the second book of his _Life of Moses_ (124),
        discusses how
        > the gems on the breast plate of the high priest correspond to the
        order of
        > the zodiac.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Edward
        >
        >
        >
        > Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D.
        > Dean of Faculty
        > Department of Philosophy
        > St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
        > Media, PA 19063
        > E-mail: emoore@...
        > Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore
        >
      • Michael Chase
        ... M.C. Awfully darned little is known about Stephanus of Alexandria. He seems to have given courses on alchemy for the emperor Heraclius, may have written
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 20, 2006
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          Le 20 mars 06, à 23:23, vaeringjar a écrit :

          > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Moore" <emoore@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Marilynn Lawrence" <pronoia@...>
          > > To: <neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:38 PM
          > > Subject: [neoplatonism] 'Olympiodori'?
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Curt recently wrote:
          > > >
          > > > "The article goes on for quite a bit after that - near the
          > > > end there is the assertion that John Philoponus and
          > > > Olympiodorus both converted to Christianity. Is there any
          > > > evidence for this in the case of Olympiodorus? How about
          > > > Philoponus?"
          > >
          > > I'll leave it to Marilynn or someone else to answer the question
          > about
          > > Olympiodorus/Olympodori.  However, I can state with certainty that
          > John
          > > Philoponus was a Christian from birth -- albeit of a distinct
          > Monophysite
          > > character.  While Basil Tatakis, in his comprehensive volume _La
          > philosophie
          > > byzantine_ (1949), insists that Philoponus had converted to
          > Christianity,
          > > later scholars have challenged this view.  Etienne Evrard and
          > Clemens
          > > Scholten are the two that come to mind.
          > >
          > > > To make matters worse, around the 6th
          > > > century it was not impossible for a  Christian to have
          > > > pagan tendencies. I was recently looking at a Christian
          > > > astrological magic text that first invokes the Holy Virgin
          > > > Theotokos then goes on to list the images and names of the
          > > > angels and daimons associated with each planetary hour.
          > >
          > > Indeed, Stephanus of Alexandria, who was invited to teach at the
          > Christian
          > > Catechetical School at Constantinople around 610 A.D., taught
          > doctrines such
          > > as the pre-existence of souls, and the eternity of the world.  As
          > for the
          > > worship of the Holy Virgin Mary ... this had been going on for
          > centuries,
          > > and was a major point of contention among the various Christian
          > sects --
          > > even after the so-called definitive Councils.  Interestingly, Philo
          > of
          > > Alexandria, in the second book of his _Life of Moses_ (124),
          > discusses how
          > > the gems on the breast plate of the high priest correspond to the
          > order of
          > > the zodiac.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > > Edward
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D.
          > > Dean of Faculty
          > > Department of Philosophy
          > > St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
          > > Media, PA 19063
          > > E-mail: emoore@...
          > > Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore
          > >
          >
          > Stephanus - there's one that's really just a name to me. Has much
          > been done on him?

          M.C. Awfully darned little is known about Stephanus of Alexandria. He
          seems to have given courses on alchemy for the emperor Heraclius, may
          have written commentaires on Hippocrates, and may be the real author of
          the commenentary on De anima 3, 3 attributed in the mss. to Philoponus
          (but cf. Lautner). He may be the same person as Stephanus of Athens
          (Wolska-Conus), may be the author of a commentary on the Isagoge
          mentioned in Syriac sources. It's virtually certain - for once! - that
          he wrote a commentary on the De interpretatione.

          See Blumenthal H. J. - John Philoponus and Stephanus of Alexandria.
          Two Neoplatonic Christian commentators on Aristotle ? Neoplatonism and
          Christian thought : 54-63.

          Lautner Peter. - Philoponus, In De anima III : quest for an author. CQ
          1992 XLII : 510-522. •

          On Aristotle On the soul 3.9-13 / « Philoponus ». : With On Aristotle
          On interpretation / Stephanus ; transl. by William Charlton. London :
          Duckworth, 2000. 239 p. 2 index. (The ancient commentators on
          Aristotle).

          Wolska-Conus Wanda. - Stéphanos d'Athènes et Stéphanos d'Alexandrie,
          essai d'identification et de biographie. REByz 1989 XLVII : 5-89.



          > I don't even know what - if anything - is extant of
          > his writings, assuming he wrote anything at all.
          >
          > How on earth did he get away with believing in the Eternity of the
          > World?

          M.C. I'm not sure how strong the evidence is for this this, but if it's
          true, one could ask the same thing about al-Farabi, who asserted it all
          his life.
          >
          > Is he the Stephanus referred to, as in "Stephanus' page" of the text
          > of Plato? Seems unlikely, but I have never actually asked this of
          > anyone.

          M.C. Nope. The Plato pages are named after Henri Estienne (1528-1598),
          who printed the editio princeps of Plato's dialogues in 1578.

          Best, Mike.

          >
          >
          >
          >
          Michael Chase
          (goya@...)
          CNRS UPR 76
          7, rue Guy Moquet
          Villejuif 94801
          France
        • vaeringjar
          ... question ... that ... _La ... the ... world.  As ... Christian ... Philo ... the ... much ... He ... may ... author of ... Philoponus ... Athens ... that
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 22, 2006
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            --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, Michael Chase <goya@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Le 20 mars 06, à 23:23, vaeringjar a écrit :
            >
            > > --- In neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Moore" <emoore@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: "Marilynn Lawrence" <pronoia@>
            > > > To: <neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:38 PM
            > > > Subject: [neoplatonism] 'Olympiodori'?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Curt recently wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > "The article goes on for quite a bit after that - near the
            > > > > end there is the assertion that John Philoponus and
            > > > > Olympiodorus both converted to Christianity. Is there any
            > > > > evidence for this in the case of Olympiodorus? How about
            > > > > Philoponus?"
            > > >
            > > > I'll leave it to Marilynn or someone else to answer the
            question
            > > about
            > > > Olympiodorus/Olympodori.  However, I can state with certainty
            that
            > > John
            > > > Philoponus was a Christian from birth -- albeit of a distinct
            > > Monophysite
            > > > character.  While Basil Tatakis, in his comprehensive volume
            _La
            > > philosophie
            > > > byzantine_ (1949), insists that Philoponus had converted to
            > > Christianity,
            > > > later scholars have challenged this view.  Etienne Evrard and
            > > Clemens
            > > > Scholten are the two that come to mind.
            > > >
            > > > > To make matters worse, around the 6th
            > > > > century it was not impossible for a  Christian to have
            > > > > pagan tendencies. I was recently looking at a Christian
            > > > > astrological magic text that first invokes the Holy Virgin
            > > > > Theotokos then goes on to list the images and names of the
            > > > > angels and daimons associated with each planetary hour.
            > > >
            > > > Indeed, Stephanus of Alexandria, who was invited to teach at
            the
            > > Christian
            > > > Catechetical School at Constantinople around 610 A.D., taught
            > > doctrines such
            > > > as the pre-existence of souls, and the eternity of the
            world.  As
            > > for the
            > > > worship of the Holy Virgin Mary ... this had been going on for
            > > centuries,
            > > > and was a major point of contention among the various
            Christian
            > > sects --
            > > > even after the so-called definitive Councils.  Interestingly,
            Philo
            > > of
            > > > Alexandria, in the second book of his _Life of Moses_ (124),
            > > discusses how
            > > > the gems on the breast plate of the high priest correspond to
            the
            > > order of
            > > > the zodiac.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > >
            > > > Edward
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Edward Moore, S.T.L., Ph.D.
            > > > Dean of Faculty
            > > > Department of Philosophy
            > > > St. Elias School of Orthodox Theology
            > > > Media, PA 19063
            > > > E-mail: emoore@
            > > > Homepage: www.theandros.com/emoore
            > > >
            > >
            > > Stephanus - there's one that's really just a name to me. Has
            much
            > > been done on him?
            >
            > M.C. Awfully darned little is known about Stephanus of Alexandria.
            He
            > seems to have given courses on alchemy for the emperor Heraclius,
            may
            > have written commentaires on Hippocrates, and may be the real
            author of
            > the commenentary on De anima 3, 3 attributed in the mss. to
            Philoponus
            > (but cf. Lautner). He may be the same person as Stephanus of
            Athens
            > (Wolska-Conus), may be the author of a commentary on the Isagoge
            > mentioned in Syriac sources. It's virtually certain - for once! -
            that
            > he wrote a commentary on the De interpretatione.
            >
            > See Blumenthal H. J. - John Philoponus and Stephanus of
            Alexandria.
            > Two Neoplatonic Christian commentators on Aristotle ? Neoplatonism
            and
            > Christian thought : 54-63.
            >
            > Lautner Peter. - Philoponus, In De anima III : quest for an
            author. CQ
            > 1992 XLII : 510-522. •
            >
            > On Aristotle On the soul 3.9-13 / « Philoponus ». : With On
            Aristotle
            > On interpretation / Stephanus ; transl. by William Charlton.
            London :
            > Duckworth, 2000. 239 p. 2 index. (The ancient commentators on
            > Aristotle).
            >
            > Wolska-Conus Wanda. - Stéphanos d'Athènes et Stéphanos
            d'Alexandrie,
            > essai d'identification et de biographie. REByz 1989 XLVII : 5-89.
            >

            Thanks, Michael - I do have the Blumenthal and started dipping into
            it.

            I did also notice just surfing online that Stephanus has attributed
            to him a work on alchemy called <De Chrysopoieia>. What wasn't clear
            was whether this work is still extant or even accepted as his. I
            couldn't find any edition of it, but I didn't dig that much.

            Dennis Clark
            Issaquah
          • Michael Chase
            ... M.C. It s the same work as the De magna et sacra arte, ed. J.L. Ideler, Physici et medici Graeci minores, vol. 2. Berlin: Reimer, 1842 (repr. Amsterdam:
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 22, 2006
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              Le 23 mars 06, à 06:26, vaeringjar a écrit :

              >
              >
              > Thanks, Michael - I do have the Blumenthal and started dipping into
              > it.
              >
              > I did also notice just surfing online that Stephanus has attributed
              > to him a work on alchemy called <De Chrysopoieia>. What wasn't clear
              > was whether this work is still extant or even accepted as his. I
              > couldn't find any edition of it, but I didn't dig that much.


              M.C. It's the same work as the De magna et sacra arte, ed. J.L. Ideler,
              Physici et medici Graeci minores, vol. 2. Berlin: Reimer, 1842 (repr.
              Amsterdam: Hakkert, 1963): 199‑253.

              See Maria K. Papathanassiou, Stephanos von Alexandreia und sein
              alchimistisches Werk. Berlin Humboldt-Univ., 1992.

              Best, Mike.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              Michael Chase
              (goya@...)
              CNRS UPR 76
              7, rue Guy Moquet
              Villejuif 94801
              France
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