6054Re: [neoplatonism] Re: Calling all astrologers!
- Oct 8, 2013how does porphyry's 'On the Cave of the Nymphs in the Thirteenth Book of the Odyssey' play into this, if at all?
On Mon, 10/7/13, Marilynn Lawrence <pronoia12@...> wrote:
Subject: Re: [neoplatonism] Re: Calling all astrologers!
To: "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com>
Date: Monday, October 7, 2013, 7:47 PM
"Declination" is a good idea, but the
latitude with respect to the equator wasn't really a
device considered/interpreted in older astrology (it is used
in contemporary astrology). There is a concept of declining
with respect to the kentra, apoklima, but paraklisis
wouldn't likely be a synomym for it (Porphyry would have
know apoklima, particularly if he did in fact
'curate' the Introduction to the
Your speculation that the point could be the
nodes of the Moon is intriguing and worth investigating.
There is very little information about the nodes and how
they might have been used in the Hellenistic astrology
texts, but were/are robustly used in India and were imported
into astrology later (such that through the Persians, the
nodes make their way into the Dorotheus text as an add on).
They revolve backwards through the zodiac, which may account
interpretatively for the reversal or return of disease in
the Orphic fragment.
I also thought it might be something like
the paranatellonta or dodekaoros. I think he refers
to the latter in passing in the letter to Anebo (don't
recall). However, the twelve-hour co-risers are all animals
except for a boat, so that's not much good in
determining whether a soul gets to be animal or human. But
some of the parantellonta are human or gods, so that might
balance out the range of choices. This whole thing of
determining animal or human birth falls outside of
'normal' technical astrology which had humans at the
center of its concern. Paraklisis is used as a technical
term in the Orphic fragment, but that doesn't mean
Porphyry was using it in the same way or according to any
particular astrological rule. For instance, if it is a word
for the Moon's nodes, he could be using it as the
gateways of souls as they pass through then plop onto earth
through the eastern horizon.
On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at
5:30 PM, Goya <goya@...>
Thanks for this.
The passage you reproduce is basically right, I think, but
in his Untersuchngen zum mittelplatonischen und
Sellenlehre, Wiesbaden 1983, is critical of
interpretation of Porph's passage, I think rightly. He
points out (p.
153-54) that according to Bouché-Leclercq, the soul enters
into the embryo
before birth, but this is not Porphyry's view, as shown
by the Ad Gaurum.
> Hi Mike,
> I'm not a specialist but here's how
> *, p.601-602) paraphrases your passage and the
following lines of the
> "Qu'on imagine a l'Orient, a
I'«Horoscope», un troupeau d'âme en appétit
> d'incarnation devant un etroit passage
allernativement ouvert et fermé par
> le mouvement de Ia grande roue zodiacale, celle-ci
percée d'autant de
> qu'elle compte de degres. Au moment voulu, poussee
par Ia Justice, qu'on
> appelle aussi Ia Fortune, telle âme, I'âme
d'un chien, par exemple, passe
> par Ie trou horoscopique, et, l'instant
d'apres, une arne humaine par un
> autre trou."
> He also notes: "La même theorie est exposee par
Proclus (in Anal. sacr.,
> 2, pp. 97 sqq., 137, 173 Pitra), qui voudrait voir les
> attentifs au moment de Ia *spora*, pour capter les
âmes de bon aloi. Cf.
> ci-dessus, pp. 22, 2 et 508.
> Hope this is of any help and good luck! I am interested
in knowing what
> make of this.
> Olivier Dufault
CNRS UPR 76
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