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5974Re: [neoplatonism] intelligible triads in Proclus

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  • david.gallagher70
    Jun 11, 2013
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      Good question, Marco.

      Confusion is readily available owing to what we discerned as a matrix of
      triads where each 'term' of the three levels of triads itself is triadic.
      Thus Hyparxis/Bound/Father (also aether/chaos/egg) is the triad of the first
      'term' in the intelligible (noetic) triad. Yes, bound, infinite, mixed are
      the three 'terms' of the first (intelligible/noetic) triad per our
      reading/understanding from the Taylor translation.

      Ensuing upon the first (noetic) there ensues the second (noetic-noeric) and
      a third (noeric). It gets yet more complicated at the third level where
      the hebdomad is introduced, and that is critical to the understanding when
      you get to the Commentary on Timaeus. We're working through the latter at
      the moment, planning to return to PT for the chapters on psyche in due
      course.

      I suspect the diagram you already have is not the one I referred to in this
      instance. Is the one you have circular? If so, that's not it, although
      one-quarter the circular figure correlates with this other one I offered to
      send. It maps out that one-quarter in more detail. Wish we could embed
      diagrams in posts on this list-serve.

      It might help to have a look at G.R.H, Mead's book, Orpheus.
      http://archive.org/details/orpheus00meadgoog
      He lays out the Orphic Pantheon with a fair measure of clarity, based
      largely on Proclus, PT. The material relevant to your question is clearly
      identified by section titles within chapters. Caveat: there are significant
      lacunae in the Internet Archive read-online 'edition'. Best to download the
      entire PDF (3.1m) and pursue via that format. We went to Proclus after
      consulting Mead, and feel that was good prep.

      David


      In a message dated 6/11/2013 4:09:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      marcobormann@... writes:




      Thanks a lot David,

      by the way I think I already got your diagram a couple of months ago.

      But my question to your answer is, how can you come up with

      Hyparxis/Bound/Father

      as first triad. Proklos here seems to be quite clear, I quote from Taylors
      translation, III, 12:
      "SUCH therefore, is the first triad of intelligibles, according to Socrates
      in the Philebus, viz. bound, infinite, and that which is mixed from these."
      This mixed he explains to being.
      Ok, I can see that he here only refers to the Philebus and the goes on to
      discuss a lot of other dialogs, but at least concerning the first triad he
      seems to be pretty consistent.
      But maybe I am getting something wrong here,

      Regards,
      Marco

      >________________________________
      > De : "_dgallagher@..._ (mailto:dgallagher@...) "
      <_dgallagher@..._ (mailto:dgallagher@...) >
      >À : _neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com)

      >Envoyé le : Lundi 10 juin 2013 19h33
      >Objet : Re: [neoplatonism] intelligible triads in Proclus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Marco,
      >
      >Our reading of the relevant chapters in PT at Wisdom's Goldenrod was
      >prompted by Meade's book, Orpheus. We discerned a 'matrix' of triads
      within the
      >first 'intelligible' (noetic) triad; the ensuing triads
      >'intelligible/intellectual' (noetic/noeric) and 'intellectual' (noeric).
      Our study resulted
      >in a diagram depicting our understanding of Proclus' explanation of the
      >hierarchy of Orphic gods within Intellect. I can send you a copy postal
      mail
      >if you're disposed to send me your delivery address off-list. The diagram
      >also accounts for Absolute Soul in Nous.
      >
      >Regarding the intelligible gods (the highest level in Proclus'
      hierarchy),
      >we adduced the following
      >
      >1st: Hyparxis/Bound/Father; one being; to be or abide; aether, chaos,
      egg.
      >
      >2nd: Power/Infinity/Mother; life as power, to live; cosmic egg; triple
      >deity.
      >3rd: Mind/Mixed/Son; life as intelligence; to energize intellectually;
      >Protogonus (Phanes, Ericapeous, Metis).
      >
      >These can then be splayed out as:
      >Hyparxis, Power, Mind
      >Bound, Infinity, Mixed
      >Father, Mother, Son
      >or
      >Being, Life, Intellect
      >
      >Hoping this might be helpful,
      >David
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >In a message dated 6/10/2013 10:00:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      >_marcobormann@..._ (mailto:marcobormann@...) writes:
      >
      >
      >Hi all,
      >
      >I am kind of stuck somewhere in Proclus' Theology of Plato, trying to
      >puzzle together the intelligible triads. The whole things is quite
      strange
      >since he states them for each dialogue separately and on is never sure
      when he
      >states the actual idea from the triad and when just one that is
      applicable
      >to this idea. However the first two seem to be relatively clear:
      >1st bound, unbound, being
      >2nd hyparxis, power, life
      >But for the third things do not seem as clear. The third idea he says to
      >be 'intellect', but for the first two ideas of this triad I have been
      >looking in vain.
      >Does anyone have any hint for me?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >Marco
      >
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