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5329Re : [neoplatonism] Neoplatonism & Religion

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  • Marco Bormann
    Apr 2, 2012
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      @Stephen Clark
      "I now think that the obvious comparison of the CHristian Trinity with Plotinus's three hypostases is wrong. The One and the Nous relate fairly well to the first and second persons, but Plotinus' Soul is not the same as the Christian Spirit: actually Nous serves both as Logos and as Spirit."
       
      I agree with this remark. Christians almost always argued against the concept of a world-soul, often with the argument that movement of planets which oftentimes got associated with the souls or has been seen as an expression of its perfection would be way to simple for a soul. I do have trouble understandig the concept of the Holy Spirit - I try of course to abstract from its theological role. It seems to me to be some kind of unity of the One (God) and the Nous. In Marius Victorinus I found some hints that he for instance sees it as the Nous that realizes the One.
       
      But I think it's quite interesting comparing Christian and Neoplatonic views though I am somehow under the impression that from Plotinos or even Ammonios on it is pretty much a one way street where Neoplatonists did never read Christian Trinity as a possible contribuition to their thinking while Christians tokk everthing the could get. But probably this is due to much greater internal struggles among the Christians and probably because their thinking was more metaphorical than the Platonist's.
       
      @Michael Chase
      " it's been argued that Porphyry is also behind the Christian idea of the Trinity."
       
      Just a personal remark. I am getting a little suspicious about the mass of stuff that finally get attributed to Porphyrios while at the same time there is not so much left of what he wrote. It looks like a welcome black hole to solve all kinds of philological quests.
       
      Marco


      >________________________________
      > De : "Clark, Stephen" <srlclark@...>
      >À : "neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com" <neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com>
      >Envoyé le : Dimanche 1 avril 2012 16h20
      >Objet : RE: [neoplatonism] Neoplatonism & Religion
      >
      >Good secondary literature includes Prestige God in Patristic Thought, and Lloyd Gerson's Plotinus, and his God and Greek Philosophy. Maybe also David Bradshaw Aristotle East and West: Metaphysics and the Division of Christendom.
      >
      >I've written on this myself in From Athens to Jerusalem (Clarendon Press 1984), and God's World and the Great Awakening (Clarendon Press 1991), making use of Philo in both cases.
      >
      >I now think that the obvious comparison of the CHristian Trinity with Plotinus's three hypostases is wrong. The One and the Nous relate fairly well to the first and second persons, but Plotinus' Soul is not the same as the Christian Spirit: actually Nous serves both as Logos and as Spirit.
      >
      >But there is still a comparison to be made. Plotinus analyses the divine as Beloved, Lover and Love of It in Enneads VI.8 [39].15 (also Known, Knower and Knowing) which serves quite well at least for the 'social' interpretation of the Trinity.
      >
      >I posted a draft paper on Maximus the Confessor's use of logos and logoi on academia.edu a while back. That may be of interest (at least for the references). And there's a chapter on Plotinus in McGhee & Cornwell, edds., God and the Philosophers (Continuum 2009).
      >
      >Best wishes
      >
      >Stephen Clark
      >
      >
      >From: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com [neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Wyman [vilniusjewishlibrary@...]
      >
      >Sent: 30 March 2012 10:33
      >
      >To: neoplatonism@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >Subject: [neoplatonism] Neoplatonism & Religion
      >
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      >
      >Hi everyone,
      >
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      >
      >I am new to this group and to the topic, but I am highly interested in your thoughts on the connection of Neoplatonism and religion, esp. Christianity. I have heard that it is not up-to-date anymore to say that Neoplatonism influenced Christianity, but that
      >Christianity and Neoplatonism provided solutions or answers to questions people in late Antiquity had. Does anyone here know more about the link between Neoplatonism and Christianity? Is anyone familiar with the cultural grounds NP developed upon? I have read
      >something about the development of the concept of the trinity. Is this a concept developed by Christians or Neoplatonists? Can anyone recommend books on this particular topic?
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      >Thanks, everybody!
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      >
      >Wyman
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