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Re: 450 unit development in Taylor Yard, Parcel "C"

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  • Judith Dancoff
    With the financial incentives available to developers for doing such large construction, I worry that 450 unit buildings will only be a wave of a very near
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 31, 1969
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      With the financial incentives available to developers for doing such large
      construction, I worry that 450 unit buildings will only be a wave of a very
      near future. Mixed-use development can be an important asset, but I'm
      afraid it won't be if it's done like the development on Ave. 26 that even
      blights the freeway. Those of us concerned about the beauty as well as
      functionality of our neighborhoods need to step out of our individual
      enclaves and oversee outsiders who are only interested in making a buck by
      putting their footprint on our part of LA. Please understand that I am NOT
      arguing against mixed-use development or even low-income housing; I just
      think that businessmen who suddenly hit-on the blank canvas of Northeast LA
      need to be carefully watched and controlled. Let's not complain about it
      after it's too late.

      Judith Dancoff
      Mt. Washington resident
    • car2532002
      The problem that I see in the Cypress Park neighborhood council is that they are taking on too many issues that are not in or related to Cypress Park. I see
      Message 2 of 17 , May 1 12:40 AM
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        The problem that I see in the Cypress Park neighborhood council is
        that they are taking on too many issues that are not in or related
        to Cypress Park. I see them doing things for Mt Washington,
        Glassell Park, Highland Park, Eagle Rock, and other places. Of
        course some of that is necessary but we need to concentrate on
        Cypress Park and let the other areas take care of them own stuff.

        Cypress Park needs a lot of work including clean ups and other
        stuff. But why have an education committee when there is only one
        school, Nightingale in this area? And why talk about Tesco when
        that's not in our area either? The new High School that LAUSD
        wants to build and the extension of LACC in Fletcher Square is not
        in our neighborhood either. We need to concentate on Cypress Park
        and what we can do to better take care of our area. But that is not
        what is being done. Cypress Park should be the main focus.

        Susan

        --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, Clare MK <clare_mk@...> wrote:
        >
        > hi susan,
        >
        > at the risk of sounding simplistic, you can usually tell where a
        > parcel is when the local neighborhood council is involved. in this
        > case, since it's south of "the new park" and cypress park NC is
        > taking it up for presentation and discussion, this would lead me to
        > think it's in cypress park.
        >
        > (sometimes issues overlap boundaries and more than one NC will take
        > up an issue of course).
        >
        > clare.
        >
        >
        > On Apr 29, 2007, at 10:02 AM, susan ROCHA wrote:
        >
        > Is this parcel in Cypress Park or Glassell Park or ?
        > I think its important that we start to put more attention on the
        area
        > where we live, Cypress Park.
        >
        > Susan
        >
        > rourk_us <gestalted@...> wrote:
        > Come join us for a presentation, and a Q& A session with McCormack,
        > Baron and Salazar, who have a proposal for a 450 mixed use development
        > on the currently MTA owned parcel C (S. of the new park) this
        Thurs at
        > 7pm, the river center, los feliz room. <snip>
      • rourk_us
        Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually have more than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally have our Stakeholder
        Message 3 of 17 , May 1 9:18 AM
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          Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually have more
          than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally have
          our Stakeholder meetings is in Cypress Park, as well as Loreto
          Elementary. Devine Savior also has a school there. High School #13
          which will be built in Glassell Park will have our kids going there
          so it is of great concern that we have our voice heard. As far as
          your other issues, we work with other neighborhood councils on a
          variety of issues, but monies have not been allocated to other
          communities. Our definition of stakeholders, like other neighborhood
          councils are wide and varied, hence those stakeholders who live in
          other areas and are stakeholders in our NC as well may bring up
          issues to the board. Finally, please realize that our NC is called
          the Greater Cypress Park NC, and that a 1/3 of it is in Mt.
          Washington, hence the reason why it is called "Greater", so the
          people who are stakeholders there also have a say and cannot be
          ignored. I hope this gives some clarification.
          –Rourk Reagan,
          Vice Chair, GCPNC

          --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, "car2532002" <car2532002@...> wrote:
          >
          > The problem that I see in the Cypress Park neighborhood council is
          > that they are taking on too many issues that are not in or related
          > to Cypress Park. I see them doing things for Mt Washington,
          > Glassell Park, Highland Park, Eagle Rock, and other places. Of
          > course some of that is necessary but we need to concentrate on
          > Cypress Park and let the other areas take care of them own stuff.
          >
          > Cypress Park needs a lot of work including clean ups and other
          > stuff. But why have an education committee when there is only one
          > school, Nightingale in this area? And why talk about Tesco when
          > that's not in our area either? The new High School that LAUSD
          > wants to build and the extension of LACC in Fletcher Square is not
          > in our neighborhood either. We need to concentate on Cypress Park
          > and what we can do to better take care of our area. But that is not
          > what is being done. Cypress Park should be the main focus.
          >
          > Susan
          >
          > --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, Clare MK <clare_mk@> wrote:
          > >
          > > hi susan,
          > >
          > > at the risk of sounding simplistic, you can usually tell where a
          > > parcel is when the local neighborhood council is involved. in this
          > > case, since it's south of "the new park" and cypress park NC is
          > > taking it up for presentation and discussion, this would lead me
          to
          > > think it's in cypress park.
          > >
          > > (sometimes issues overlap boundaries and more than one NC will
          take
          > > up an issue of course).
          > >
          > > clare.
          > >
          > >
          > > On Apr 29, 2007, at 10:02 AM, susan ROCHA wrote:
          > >
          > > Is this parcel in Cypress Park or Glassell Park or ?
          > > I think its important that we start to put more attention on the
          > area
          > > where we live, Cypress Park.
          > >
          > > Susan
          > >
          > > rourk_us <gestalted@> wrote:
          > > Come join us for a presentation, and a Q& A session with
          McCormack,
          > > Baron and Salazar, who have a proposal for a 450 mixed use
          development
          > > on the currently MTA owned parcel C (S. of the new park) this
          > Thurs at
          > > 7pm, the river center, los feliz room. <snip>
          >
        • susan ROCHA
          It really doesn t give clarification to me. Mt Washington has the Arroyo Seco neighborhood council and Glassell Park has its own too. What I don t see is
          Message 4 of 17 , May 1 10:40 PM
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            It really doesn't give clarification to me. Mt Washington has the Arroyo Seco neighborhood council and Glassell Park has its own too. What I don't see is enough attention being put to Cypress Park. Our area needs clean up, more connections to our local business especially among Figueroa and other issues. All that I hear about is the coffee shop in Highland Park (I am glad that opened), Tesco in Eagle Rock, the school that is coming in Glassell Park, and no attention in Cypress Park. What is being done here? I feel that too much energy is going into other areas and not where we live. We need to put priorities here first before anywhere else.

            Susan



            rourk_us <gestalted@...> wrote:
            Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually have more
            than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally have
            our Stakeholder meetings is in Cypress Park, as well as Loreto
            Elementary. Devine Savior also has a school there. High School #13
            which will be built in Glassell Park will have our kids going there
            so it is of great concern that we have our voice heard. As far as
            your other issues, we work with other neighborhood councils on a
            variety of issues, but monies have not been allocated to other
            communities. Our definition of stakeholders, like other neighborhood
            councils are wide and varied, hence those stakeholders who live in
            other areas and are stakeholders in our NC as well may bring up
            issues to the board. Finally, please realize that our NC is called
            the Greater Cypress Park NC, and that a 1/3 of it is in Mt.
            Washington, hence the reason why it is called "Greater", so the
            people who are stakeholders there also have a say and cannot be
            ignored. I hope this gives some clarification.
            –Rourk Reagan,
            Vice Chair, GCPNC

            --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, "car2532002" <car2532002@...> wrote:
            >
            > The problem that I see in the Cypress Park neighborhood council is
            > that they are taking on too many issues that are not in or related
            > to Cypress Park. I see them doing things for Mt Washington,
            > Glassell Park, Highland Park, Eagle Rock, and other places. Of
            > course some of that is necessary but we need to concentrate on
            > Cypress Park and let the other areas take care of them own stuff.
            >
            > Cypress Park needs a lot of work including clean ups and other
            > stuff. But why have an education committee when there is only one
            > school, Nightingale in this area? And why talk about Tesco when
            > that's not in our area either? The new High School that LAUSD
            > wants to build and the extension of LACC in Fletcher Square is not
            > in our neighborhood either. We need to concentate on Cypress Park
            > and what we can do to better take care of our area. But that is not
            > what is being done. Cypress Park should be the main focus.
            >
            > Susan
            >
            > --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, Clare MK <clare_mk@> wrote:
            > >
            > > hi susan,
            > >
            > > at the risk of sounding simplistic, you can usually tell where a
            > > parcel is when the local neighborhood council is involved. in this
            > > case, since it's south of "the new park" and cypress park NC is
            > > taking it up for presentation and discussion, this would lead me to
            > > think it's in cypress park.
            > >
            > > (sometimes issues overlap boundaries and more than one NC will take
            > > up an issue of course).
            > >
            > > clare.
            > >
            > >
            > > On Apr 29, 2007, at 10:02 AM, susan ROCHA wrote:
            > >
            > > Is this parcel in Cypress Park or Glassell Park or ?
            > > I think its important that we start to put more attention on the area
            > > where we live, Cypress Park.
            > >
            > > Susan
            > >
            > > rourk_us <gestalted@> wrote:
            > > Come join us for a presentation, and a Q& A session with McCormack,
            > > Baron and Salazar, who have a proposal for a 450 mixed use development
            > > on the currently MTA owned parcel C (S. of the new park) this Thurs at
            > > 7pm, the river center, los feliz room. <snip>
          • Clare MK
            i don t live in cypress park - but this part of the northeast community just had a lot of good press about the new rio de los angeles state park and had a
            Message 5 of 17 , May 2 4:02 PM
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              i don't live in cypress park - but this part of the northeast
              community just had a lot of good press about the new rio de los
              angeles state park and had a really well-attended ribbon-cutting
              event just a week ago. and, here's the GCP neighborhood council land
              use committee inviting everyone to hear about a 450 unit development
              in cypress park.

              it sounds to me as if you have the makings of an activist (if you
              aren't already) for your community. volunteers can be hard to come
              by. you might consider running for neighborhood council yourself -
              or, if not enough time available (it does take up spare time and
              more) you could attend the meetings and give input as to what
              improvements you'd like to see in the neighborhood - and give ideas
              about how to make them happen.

              clare.



              On May 1, 2007, at 10:40 PM, susan ROCHA wrote:

              > It really doesn't give clarification to me. Mt Washington has the
              > Arroyo Seco neighborhood council and Glassell Park has its own too.
              > What I don't see is enough attention being put to Cypress Park. Our
              > area needs clean up, more connections to our local business
              > especially among Figueroa and other issues. All that I hear about
              > is the coffee shop in Highland Park (I am glad that opened), Tesco
              > in Eagle Rock, the school that is coming in Glassell Park, and no
              > attention in Cypress Park. What is being done here? I feel that too
              > much energy is going into other areas and not where we live. We
              > need to put priorities here first before anywhere else.
              >
              > Susan
              >
              >
              >
              > rourk_us <gestalted@...> wrote:
              > Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually have more
              > than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally have
              > our Stakeholder meetings is in Cypress Park, as well as Loreto
              > Elementary. Devine Savior also has a school there. High School #13
              > which will be built in Glassell Park will have our kids going there
              > so it is of great concern that we have our voice heard. As far as
              > your other issues, we work with other neighborhood councils on a
              > variety of issues, but monies have not been allocated to other
              > communities. Our definition of stakeholders, like other neighborhood
              > councils are wide and varied, hence those stakeholders who live in
              > other areas and are stakeholders in our NC as well may bring up
              > issues to the board. Finally, please realize that our NC is called
              > the Greater Cypress Park NC, and that a 1/3 of it is in Mt.
              > Washington, hence the reason why it is called "Greater", so the
              > people who are stakeholders there also have a say and cannot be
              > ignored. I hope this gives some clarification.
              > �Rourk Reagan,
              > Vice Chair, GCPNC
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • car2532002
              Thanks Clare for your kind words. Only problem is I am an outcast at my neighborhood council. I ran and lost. I knew I would. I am trying to get the noise
              Message 6 of 17 , May 2 7:00 PM
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                Thanks Clare for your kind words. Only problem is I am an outcast
                at my neighborhood council. I ran and lost. I knew I would. I am
                trying to get the noise law changed so I don't have to hear an off
                key tape recording coming from the church.

                They blast their tape from an amplied sound system 6 times a day
                every day of the week. It is very loud and annoying. The
                neighborhood council brought in the church members (who most do not
                live there) and they really let them attack me, they really let me
                have it. Only one person on the neighborhood council had enough
                courage to back me up and ask some questions. The rest were just
                scared chickens. I really see the hatefulness that I thought would
                never come from the church and people in the neighborhood. So, I
                guess I am on my own to try to get decibel limits on the church. I
                am so hated. If anyone really cared they would have stopped the
                nasty attacks on me that were allowed to go on for 2 hours.

                Susan

                --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, Clare MK <clare_mk@...> wrote:
                >
                > i don't live in cypress park - but this part of the northeast
                > community just had a lot of good press about the new rio de los
                > angeles state park and had a really well-attended ribbon-cutting
                > event just a week ago. and, here's the GCP neighborhood council
                land
                > use committee inviting everyone to hear about a 450 unit
                development
                > in cypress park.
                >
                > it sounds to me as if you have the makings of an activist (if you
                > aren't already) for your community. volunteers can be hard to
                come
                > by. you might consider running for neighborhood council yourself -

                > or, if not enough time available (it does take up spare time and
                > more) you could attend the meetings and give input as to what
                > improvements you'd like to see in the neighborhood - and give
                ideas
                > about how to make them happen.
                >
                > clare.
                >
                >
                >
                > On May 1, 2007, at 10:40 PM, susan ROCHA wrote:
                >
                > > It really doesn't give clarification to me. Mt Washington has
                the
                > > Arroyo Seco neighborhood council and Glassell Park has its own
                too.
                > > What I don't see is enough attention being put to Cypress Park.
                Our
                > > area needs clean up, more connections to our local business
                > > especially among Figueroa and other issues. All that I hear
                about
                > > is the coffee shop in Highland Park (I am glad that opened),
                Tesco
                > > in Eagle Rock, the school that is coming in Glassell Park, and
                no
                > > attention in Cypress Park. What is being done here? I feel that
                too
                > > much energy is going into other areas and not where we live. We
                > > need to put priorities here first before anywhere else.
                > >
                > > Susan
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > rourk_us <gestalted@...> wrote:
                > > Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually have more
                > > than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally
                have
                > > our Stakeholder meetings is in Cypress Park, as well as Loreto
                > > Elementary. Devine Savior also has a school there. High School
                #13
                > > which will be built in Glassell Park will have our kids going
                there
                > > so it is of great concern that we have our voice heard. As far as
                > > your other issues, we work with other neighborhood councils on a
                > > variety of issues, but monies have not been allocated to other
                > > communities. Our definition of stakeholders, like other
                neighborhood
                > > councils are wide and varied, hence those stakeholders who live
                in
                > > other areas and are stakeholders in our NC as well may bring up
                > > issues to the board. Finally, please realize that our NC is
                called
                > > the Greater Cypress Park NC, and that a 1/3 of it is in Mt.
                > > Washington, hence the reason why it is called "Greater", so the
                > > people who are stakeholders there also have a say and cannot be
                > > ignored. I hope this gives some clarification.
                > > –Rourk Reagan,
                > > Vice Chair, GCPNC
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • zarascoville
                Housing is not always necessarily a bad thing and it turns out, activism is not necessarily always a good thing. I guess it just goes to show something or
                Message 7 of 17 , May 2 8:18 PM
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                  Housing is not always necessarily a bad thing and
                  it turns out, activism is not necessarily always a good thing.
                  I guess it just goes to show something or other.....
                  It is smart to choose your battles, and smart too to choose your allies.

                  Zara
                • rourk_us
                  Hi Susan, the Greater Cypress Park NC just had a huge cleanup for both of the libraries and a large stretch of Cypress Blvd. It was part of the mayor s big
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 3 6:19 AM
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                    Hi Susan, the Greater Cypress Park NC just had a huge cleanup for
                    both of the libraries and a large stretch of Cypress Blvd. It was
                    part of the mayor's big Sunday that Alexia helped organize. We had a
                    ton of volunteers and people worked very hard. The Friends of
                    Cypresss Park had another cleanup a couple of weeks ago. We have also
                    worked with Northeast trees and they have planted over 200 trees on
                    our streets this year ( so everyone water your tree please!) North
                    East trees will be on our next agenda to ask for funds to hire youth
                    from Cypress park to train and maintain these trees. These are a
                    couple of things that the new board has done in the past 3 months
                    since we took office. Things are never perfect, but we are trying as
                    volunteers for our community. We are having a huge event called a
                    "Walkabout" to have a document in planning language where the
                    community in one day walks its streets with a very detailed form and
                    surveys what are neighborhood is about. For example, where are the
                    cracks and broken concrete on the sidewalks, the street light, do they
                    work, are there enough (this is a biggie in our neighborhood),
                    crosswalks, how walkable are our streets for peds, signage, benches,
                    bike racks etc... For this event we need lots volunteers (it will
                    be June 9th everyone and we will be having training and info sessions,
                    I will post soon)
                    One thing we would love to see is more volunteerism in our
                    neighborhood. Also if u r interested in beautification you can apply
                    for a community beautification grant from the city, we have done
                    several here.
                    -Rourk

                    --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, susan ROCHA <car2532002@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > It really doesn't give clarification to me. Mt Washington has the
                    Arroyo Seco neighborhood council and Glassell Park has its own too.
                    What I don't see is enough attention being put to Cypress Park. Our
                    area needs clean up, more connections to our local business especially
                    among Figueroa and other issues. All that I hear about is the coffee
                    shop in Highland Park (I am glad that opened), Tesco in Eagle Rock,
                    the school that is coming in Glassell Park, and no attention in
                    Cypress Park. What is being done here? I feel that too much energy
                    is going into other areas and not where we live. We need to put
                    priorities here first before anywhere else.
                    >
                    > Susan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > rourk_us <gestalted@...> wrote:
                    > Susan, this development is in Cypress Park. We actually
                    have more
                    > than one school in the area; Aragon Elementary where we normally have
                    > our Stakeholder meetings is in Cypress Park, as well as Loreto
                    > Elementary. Devine Savior also has a school there. High School #13
                    > which will be built in Glassell Park will have our kids going there
                    > so it is of great concern that we have our voice heard. As far as
                    > your other issues, we work with other neighborhood councils on a
                    > variety of issues, but monies have not been allocated to other
                    > communities. Our definition of stakeholders, like other neighborhood
                    > councils are wide and varied, hence those stakeholders who live in
                    > other areas and are stakeholders in our NC as well may bring up
                    > issues to the board. Finally, please realize that our NC is called
                    > the Greater Cypress Park NC, and that a 1/3 of it is in Mt.
                    > Washington, hence the reason why it is called "Greater", so the
                    > people who are stakeholders there also have a say and cannot be
                    > ignored. I hope this gives some clarification.
                    > –Rourk Reagan,
                    > Vice Chair, GCPNC
                    >
                    > --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, "car2532002" <car2532002@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The problem that I see in the Cypress Park neighborhood council is
                    > > that they are taking on too many issues that are not in or related
                    > > to Cypress Park. I see them doing things for Mt Washington,
                    > > Glassell Park, Highland Park, Eagle Rock, and other places. Of
                    > > course some of that is necessary but we need to concentrate on
                    > > Cypress Park and let the other areas take care of them own stuff.
                    > >
                    > > Cypress Park needs a lot of work including clean ups and other
                    > > stuff. But why have an education committee when there is only one
                    > > school, Nightingale in this area? And why talk about Tesco when
                    > > that's not in our area either? The new High School that LAUSD
                    > > wants to build and the extension of LACC in Fletcher Square is not
                    > > in our neighborhood either. We need to concentate on Cypress Park
                    > > and what we can do to better take care of our area. But that is not
                    > > what is being done. Cypress Park should be the main focus.
                    > >
                    > > Susan
                    > >
                    > > --- In nelalist@yahoogroups.com, Clare MK <clare_mk@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > hi susan,
                    > > >
                    > > > at the risk of sounding simplistic, you can usually tell where a
                    > > > parcel is when the local neighborhood council is involved. in this
                    > > > case, since it's south of "the new park" and cypress park NC is
                    > > > taking it up for presentation and discussion, this would lead me to
                    > > > think it's in cypress park.
                    > > >
                    > > > (sometimes issues overlap boundaries and more than one NC will take
                    > > > up an issue of course).
                    > > >
                    > > > clare.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Apr 29, 2007, at 10:02 AM, susan ROCHA wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Is this parcel in Cypress Park or Glassell Park or ?
                    > > > I think its important that we start to put more attention on the area
                    > > > where we live, Cypress Park.
                    > > >
                    > > > Susan
                    > > >
                    > > > rourk_us <gestalted@> wrote:
                    > > > Come join us for a presentation, and a Q& A session with McCormack,
                    > > > Baron and Salazar, who have a proposal for a 450 mixed use development
                    > > > on the currently MTA owned parcel C (S. of the new park) this Thurs at
                    > > > 7pm, the river center, los feliz room. <snip>
                    >
                  • Brett Goldstone
                    Hi Judith, Don t these out of towners become stakeholders the minute they invest in the area? Significant stakeholders at that. I worry about oversight that
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 5 8:17 AM
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                      Hi Judith,
                      Don't these out of towners become stakeholders the
                      minute they invest in the area? Significant
                      stakeholders at that. I worry about oversight that
                      becomes oppressive and censorious, taste as we all
                      know in the art business is subjective and quality
                      comes at a price. We need housing for the elderly in
                      the $600/month range, this is not possible under
                      current standards of construction. It is not fair to
                      expect private projects to carry the cost of this
                      housing need, it only increases the cost of market
                      rate housing being built which in turn increases the
                      prices of existing housing stock. These huge price
                      increases are what make owners want to develope their
                      properties. You can't have a capital gain on your own
                      house and expect apartment owners to not have a
                      similar gain. The more pressure placed on the
                      developer will only create higher prices exacerbating
                      an already explosive problem , be careful what you
                      wish for.
                      Brett
                      --- Judith Dancoff <jdancova@...> wrote:

                      > With the financial incentives available to developers for doing such large
                      > construction, I worry that 450 unit buildings will only be a wave of a very
                      > near future. Mixed-use development can be an important asset, but I'm
                      > afraid it won't be if it's done like the development on Ave. 26 that even
                      > blights the freeway. Those of us concerned about the beauty as well as
                      > functionality of our neighborhoods need to step out of our individual
                      > enclaves and oversee outsiders who are only interested in making a buck by
                      > putting their footprint on our part of LA. Please understand that I am NOT
                      > arguing against mixed-use development or even low-income housing; I just
                      > think that businessmen who suddenly hit-on the blank canvas of Northeast LA
                      > need to be carefully watched and controlled. Let's not complain about it
                      > after it's too late.
                      >
                      > Judith Dancoff
                      > Mt. Washington resident
                      >
                    • Judith Dancoff
                      All relevant points, Brett. The fact is, though, that it s a pernicious myth that attractive design and even sustainability can t be built into
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 8 9:02 AM
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                        All relevant points, Brett. The fact is, though, that it's a pernicious
                        myth that attractive design and even sustainability can't be built into
                        low-income/mixed-use housing. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, developers
                        are given cash incentives for building low-income and mixed-use housing, no?
                        So they're hardly suffering and will certainly turn a profit, though perhaps
                        not to the degree that large-scale, cheap construction promises. Meanwhile,
                        someone has to draw up the blueprints. Why can't that be done with a
                        modicum of taste, which the fixed-income seniors you speak of certainly
                        deserve? Check out this interesting example in our own backyard--the update
                        of the old Fuller Building on San Fernando Road:
                        http://www.pugh-scarpa.com/indexmain.html. Prices for these low-come
                        condo-lofts will start at just over $200,000. This same firm has also built
                        low-income housing from scratch, and won numerous AIA awards in the process,
                        and they are hardly the only ones doing this work.

                        The developers who come into our community and pour a swath of hundreds of
                        units in Northeast LA in a matter of months are certainly stakeholders in
                        their own bank accounts, but how many would ever consider living in our
                        neighborhood? They are serving up their perception of Northeast LA--a place
                        they personally wouldn't set foot in. It may already be too late, but if we
                        want some degree of control over how our neighborhood will look in the
                        future, we need to do what Highland Park, Eagle Rock, and so many other
                        neighborhoods have done, and institute some design and building standards.
                        Anyone else agree? I'm particularly worried about Figueroa south of Ave.
                        50. God knows what a few more years of Northeast LA development will bring
                        there.

                        Judith Dancoff
                      • Brett Goldstone
                        Fuller lofts are my neighbor in Lincoln Heights, and I am currently negotiating with Larry Scarpa to develop my studio site (next to Fuller Lofts) into 200
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 10 1:34 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Fuller lofts are my neighbor in Lincoln Heights, and I
                          am currently negotiating with Larry Scarpa to develop
                          my studio site (next to Fuller Lofts) into 200 units.
                          He wanted to cover the site with a 4 story complex and
                          I have insisted on high rise in order to keep as much
                          available garden as possible. It is a much more
                          expensive option. The govt. does offer incentives to
                          do low income but not enough and it creates all sorts
                          of hidden problems. Profit is always necessary to
                          offset risk and there is plenty of that, believe me.
                          We will have low income, but we will also have
                          market rate and believe me it will be really expensive
                          to balance the loss on the low income units. Even a
                          $250,000 condo seems cheap but that amount financed
                          would cost around $1,600.00 per month including taxes
                          IF you have stellar credit. There would be association
                          costs and probably a parking surcharge as parking
                          spaces cost around $30,000 each if they are placed
                          underground, and each unit needs 1.5(that's almost
                          $50,000).These are today's prices and who knows where
                          they will be in 4 years the time it will take to build
                          (really optimistic schedule). We are looking at
                          $2,000,000 just to get the entitlement phase done this
                          doesn't include ANY of the costs in actually building.
                          People think making money is a slam dunk in this
                          business, I am scared sh**less but this thing needs to
                          be done, I am going in wanting the moon and may come
                          out skinned alive, so don't be too quick to judge the
                          developer. Another thing to remember is that many of
                          these developments are sold to huge investment corps
                          like Calpers who we all know are the retirees in our
                          community and these corps are VERY concerned with
                          earning ratios, they do not invest in adventurous
                          outfits who are trying to change the paradigm of
                          commercial housing.
                          This leads me to the important issue of community
                          oversight, I have a deep suspicion of any type of
                          community aesthetics panel, they become extensions of
                          a few who think their taste is better than others.
                          They are a form of censorship and can become tools of
                          oppression
                          . The market has dictated the art world for centuries
                          and we are in very good shape as a result. Where ever
                          there has been any type of censorship in art there has
                          been oppression of all aspects of life. Open minds are
                          the only way to artistic progress. Architect suffer
                          from so much censorship in regard to safety
                          considerations that its a miracle we still have any
                          art in the discipline still.
                          A good example of what happens when design review
                          boards reign is South Pasadena, where a few mediocre
                          architects and general know-it-alls preside over a
                          dismal court that would probably exclude designs from
                          all of our leading architects, not a happy picture
                          unless you love neo-craftsman fluff or Tuscan villas!
                          I hate the Ave 26 apartments but they fill a need
                          period. Adding 10% per unit for aesthetics would be
                          lovely but to add that 10% would actually cost more
                          because the developer would have to pay a better
                          architect which would add another 5% so now the units
                          are 15% more, no we need those soviet block style
                          cheapies. They also make the fuller lofts seem so much
                          better.
                          Brett

                          --- Judith Dancoff <jdancova@...> wrote:

                          > All relevant points, Brett. The fact is, though,
                          > that it's a pernicious
                          > myth that attractive design and even sustainability
                          > can't be built into
                          > low-income/mixed-use housing. First of all, if I'm
                          > not mistaken, developers
                          > are given cash incentives for building low-income
                          > and mixed-use housing, no?
                          > So they're hardly suffering and will certainly turn
                          > a profit, though perhaps
                          > not to the degree that large-scale, cheap
                          > construction promises. Meanwhile,
                          > someone has to draw up the blueprints. Why can't
                          > that be done with a
                          > modicum of taste, which the fixed-income seniors you
                          > speak of certainly
                          > deserve? Check out this interesting example in our
                          > own backyard--the update
                          > of the old Fuller Building on San Fernando Road:
                          > http://www.pugh-scarpa.com/indexmain.html. Prices
                          > for these low-come
                          > condo-lofts will start at just over $200,000. This
                          > same firm has also built
                          > low-income housing from scratch, and won numerous
                          > AIA awards in the process,
                          > and they are hardly the only ones doing this work.
                          >
                          > The developers who come into our community and pour
                          > a swath of hundreds of
                          > units in Northeast LA in a matter of months are
                          > certainly stakeholders in
                          > their own bank accounts, but how many would ever
                          > consider living in our
                          > neighborhood? They are serving up their perception
                          > of Northeast LA--a place
                          > they personally wouldn't set foot in. It may
                          > already be too late, but if we
                          > want some degree of control over how our
                          > neighborhood will look in the
                          > future, we need to do what Highland Park, Eagle
                          > Rock, and so many other
                          > neighborhoods have done, and institute some design
                          > and building standards.
                          > Anyone else agree? I'm particularly worried about
                          > Figueroa south of Ave.
                          > 50. God knows what a few more years of Northeast LA
                          > development will bring
                          > there.
                          >
                          > Judith Dancoff
                        • cheryll roberts
                          Brett s challenge to build affordable housing in LA is not uncommon. Many builder/developers would be happy to do it if the govt programs that make it
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 10 2:28 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Brett's challenge to build affordable housing in LA is not uncommon. Many builder/developers would be happy to do it if the govt programs that make it possible were easier to access. As it is, the formulas are very complicated with sales of tax credits, buy-back leases, matching grants, non-profit org (501C3) participation in the development, and so on. The information is not forthcoming from the city and seems reserved for major players. The city needs to make the process more accessable to interested builders.

                            cheryll roberts

                            Brett Goldstone <brettgoldstone@...> wrote: Fuller lofts are my neighbor in Lincoln Heights, and I
                            am currently negotiating with Larry Scarpa to develop
                            my studio site (next to Fuller Lofts) into 200 units.
                            He wanted to cover the site with a 4 story complex and
                            I have insisted on high rise in order to keep as much
                            available garden as possible. It is a much more
                            expensive option. The govt. does offer incentives to
                            do low income but not enough and it creates all sorts
                            of hidden problems. Profit is always necessary to
                            offset risk and there is plenty of that, believe me.
                            We will have low income, but we will also have
                            market rate and believe me it will be really expensive
                            to balance the loss on the low income units. Even a
                            $250,000 condo seems cheap but that amount financed
                            would cost around $1,600.00 per month including taxes
                            IF you have stellar credit. There would be association
                            costs and probably a parking surcharge as parking
                            spaces cost around $30,000 each if they are placed
                            underground, and each unit needs 1.5(that's almost
                            $50,000).These are today's prices and who knows where
                            they will be in 4 years the time it will take to build
                            (really optimistic schedule). We are looking at
                            $2,000,000 just to get the entitlement phase done this
                            doesn't include ANY of the costs in actually building.
                            People think making money is a slam dunk in this
                            business, I am scared sh**less but this thing needs to
                            be done, I am going in wanting the moon and may come
                            out skinned alive, so don't be too quick to judge the
                            developer. Another thing to remember is that many of
                            these developments are sold to huge investment corps
                            like Calpers who we all know are the retirees in our
                            community and these corps are VERY concerned with
                            earning ratios, they do not invest in adventurous
                            outfits who are trying to change the paradigm of
                            commercial housing.
                            This leads me to the important issue of community
                            oversight, I have a deep suspicion of any type of
                            community aesthetics panel, they become extensions of
                            a few who think their taste is better than others.
                            They are a form of censorship and can become tools of
                            oppression
                            . The market has dictated the art world for centuries
                            and we are in very good shape as a result. Where ever
                            there has been any type of censorship in art there has
                            been oppression of all aspects of life. Open minds are
                            the only way to artistic progress. Architect suffer
                            from so much censorship in regard to safety
                            considerations that its a miracle we still have any
                            art in the discipline still.
                            A good example of what happens when design review
                            boards reign is South Pasadena, where a few mediocre
                            architects and general know-it-alls preside over a
                            dismal court that would probably exclude designs from
                            all of our leading architects, not a happy picture
                            unless you love neo-craftsman fluff or Tuscan villas!
                            I hate the Ave 26 apartments but they fill a need
                            period. Adding 10% per unit for aesthetics would be
                            lovely but to add that 10% would actually cost more
                            because the developer would have to pay a better
                            architect which would add another 5% so now the units
                            are 15% more, no we need those soviet block style
                            cheapies. They also make the fuller lofts seem so much
                            better.
                            Brett

                            --- Judith Dancoff <jdancova@...> wrote:

                            > All relevant points, Brett. The fact is, though,
                            > that it's a pernicious
                            > myth that attractive design and even sustainability
                            > can't be built into
                            > low-income/mixed-use housing. First of all, if I'm
                            > not mistaken, developers
                            > are given cash incentives for building low-income
                            > and mixed-use housing, no?
                            > So they're hardly suffering and will certainly turn
                            > a profit, though perhaps
                            > not to the degree that large-scale, cheap
                            > construction promises. Meanwhile,
                            > someone has to draw up the blueprints. Why can't
                            > that be done with a
                            > modicum of taste, which the fixed-income seniors you
                            > speak of certainly
                            > deserve? Check out this interesting example in our
                            > own backyard--the update
                            > of the old Fuller Building on San Fernando Road:
                            > http://www.pugh-scarpa.com/indexmain.html. Prices
                            > for these low-come
                            > condo-lofts will start at just over $200,000. This
                            > same firm has also built
                            > low-income housing from scratch, and won numerous
                            > AIA awards in the process,
                            > and they are hardly the only ones doing this work.
                            >
                            > The developers who come into our community and pour
                            > a swath of hundreds of
                            > units in Northeast LA in a matter of months are
                            > certainly stakeholders in
                            > their own bank accounts, but how many would ever
                            > consider living in our
                            > neighborhood? They are serving up their perception
                            > of Northeast LA--a place
                            > they personally wouldn't set foot in. It may
                            > already be too late, but if we
                            > want some degree of control over how our
                            > neighborhood will look in the
                            > future, we need to do what Highland Park, Eagle
                            > Rock, and so many other
                            > neighborhoods have done, and institute some design
                            > and building standards.
                            > Anyone else agree? I'm particularly worried about
                            > Figueroa south of Ave.
                            > 50. God knows what a few more years of Northeast LA
                            > development will bring
                            > there.
                            >
                            > Judith Dancoff
                          • Brett Goldstone
                            I would like the city and county to do for us what they did for Disney Hall. They built the parking for the Hall. It is not uncommon in the wealthy western
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 10 3:29 PM
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                              I would like the city and county to do for us what
                              they did for Disney Hall. They built the parking for
                              the Hall. It is not uncommon in the wealthy western
                              world for Municipalities to invest in parking
                              structures for public and private developement.
                              brett
                            • cheryll roberts
                              Disney hall is a county facility for public use that was primarily funded by philanthropy. anybody can park there. Disney Hall is not for private use unless
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 10 5:39 PM
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                                Disney hall is a county facility for public use that was primarily funded by philanthropy. anybody can park there. Disney Hall is not for private use unless somebody rents it from the County. There are subsidies for mixed use development that has a public use component, but I'm not aware of municipalities building parking lots for private developments for private use.

                                cheryll roberts

                                Brett Goldstone <brettgoldstone@...> wrote: I would like the city and county to do for us what
                                they did for Disney Hall. They built the parking for
                                the Hall. It is not uncommon in the wealthy western
                                world for Municipalities to invest in parking
                                structures for public and private developement.
                                brett
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