----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nde] Gnosis versus
Reincarnation -- just a matter of belief
Do you believe/know you
I have wrote and shared many aspects of
my personal NDE's and spiritual experiences on this list. I felt you were
heading in the direction you aimed this conversation in an effort to cover old
ground for the benefit of the newer members. In the past -- I felt a naive
comfort going deep into the depth of my experiences and relating them to others
to gauge a general response. I have learned from my own past
mistakes. This is not a subject or a question I will feel comfortable to
give a direct answer to. Instead -- I will write about my 1978 NDE in way
I have not done before in the past any where on the Internet. Most of the
writing I share here is old hash because I don't like to write about the new
material I have gained over the last couple of years.
When I was 17 years of age -- I was full
of hope, promise, and belief in a world of goodness. I had grown up in a
world full of light and in the midst of that light was a firm promise and reason
for my being. On one hand -- I was your typical teenager with acne and
worries about school, grades, diploma -- and the entry into
adulthood. I grew up in the world alone. I was the one who
stood off by himself on the playground -- because no one could relate to
me. I had experienced 5 near-death experiences in childhood and the things
of mystery that interested me -- did not interest the average child of my
age. I spoke of "mythological beings" full of wonder and joy as if they
were real. They were real to me and I had come adjusted to living in the
world of blindness --- alone.
My entire life --- I had wished for one
thing. A partner who would understand the things of mystery as I perceived
them. I met a young man when I was 17 and his only goal in life was to
bring more Love into it. As he told me,
"The way I see things in this world -- is
there is not enough love in it. I want to find a job were I can help
people who are hurt and need love brought into their lives. That is my
biggest dream and my only goal."
For what ever reason -- the people around
him gave their minds over to the dark elements of this world and conspired
against him. In that --- thoughts of envy, jealousy, hatred, and fear ---
motivated them. They did not see the divine light that I saw hidden
within my friend. A divine light that I knew came from heaven and
was here to spread that light around and open the eyes of many to the wonder and
joy of life. But darkness came like a thunderstorm in a West Texas
Sand storm and rained down mud and blinded us all for a short time -- including
him. When it was over -- his light no longer shinned in this world of
ours. I mourned his loss but more than anything --- I mourned the loss the
world had endured in blindness. They would never know the goodness and
love he had dreamed of bringing into this world and for that --- the world was
at a loss. I felt I had been in the midst of a battle between good and
evil and I felt evil had triumph scored a victory. I was not going to
stand for it. I vowed to "spirit" to do what ever I had to do to correct
the wrong that had been done.
For the three months after his passing
--- I was in a mental battle of my own. I had a hidden spiritual code of
language hidden within me --- but it was very hard to translate that hidden code
into English. At the end of that three months, I was willing to sacrifice
my own life for the cause my young friend had believed in. I can not put a
literal translation process up in this post that would clarify my motives or my
understanding at the age of 17, other than to say the "Spirit of God" was with
me and help lead my mind to the right and just discussion. Basically
--- all I knew mentally is, I was going to say a prayer outloud to my God.
(The ones I called within me --- "The Ones I love whom I know love me.")
There was a three step process in the outward motion of verbal words, there was
the inward motion of spiritual intuition, and there was the upward motion of the
project of the desired statement I was making on behalf of all that I felt was
good and for a just cause.
As a 17 year -- I had to put the outward
motion of the verbalization into a logical understanding I could embrace for
myself. My theological understanding was limited to the fundamental
basics. God was in heaven and the Devil was in hell. For what ever
twisted reason -- my young friend had been judged and deemed only worthy of hell
from the fundamental minds of religion. I knew the truth about him and had
touched his light with my own hand. I felt a mistake had been made and I
wanted to correct it. People told me that "God" would never love my young
friend again. I didn't believe that in my heart, but I wanted to know the
truth of it in my own mind. So -- I was willing to leave this world ---
journey to hell and fight the Devil himself if I had to. I believed in a
cause I was willing to die for and go all the way to the extreme and fight the
devil in a literal sense if I had to. The plan in my young head was to get
his "spirit/soul" out of hell and get to the pearly gates of heaven. I had
no idea what the outcome was going to be. I had forgiven my young friend
for taking his own life and I felt that if I could be talked into it, (the
messengers of light, and the spirit of my young friend talked me into
it,) so I felt that I could try and talk "God Almighty" himself into
Inwardly --- I was making a wish in a
fashion I had been trained by "spirits" to make. It was not a wish as much
as it was a command. It had to be given in such a way --- that no doubt
existed that it was going to come to pass. My wish was to get to my young
friend and get him out of the darkness --- and get to the pearly gates. I
knew without a doubt that was going to happen once I crashed my car. What
I did not know was what was going to happen afterwards. I left that part
in "Gods" hands. I told him in an outward motion that I would accept his
decision. I was willing to trade places with my friend. If someone
had to spend eternity in hell -- I would rather it be me. I wanted my
young friend to be back in a world of love. The type of love he had
dreamed of bringing into the world of man.
Since I was making a wish I KNEW was
going to come true --- I decided to make a wish on behalf of my friend and the
dream he shared with me. This is the wish I expressed in the interest of
"Oh Gawd --- I don't know who the Jesus
fellow is but it seems like every time I try to bring up the things you gave me
to know about Isha --- all people want to talk about is Jesus. Seems Jesus
is some kind of teacher of love that lived here before. I don't know why
you haven't told me anything about him. Seems to me --- every one here
loves him and is expecting him to come back again some day. I don't
understand. If his teachings where all that good --- how come people given
their minds over to evil to wish evil on people like my young friend.
Seems to me that they are only going to open their eyes and ears to the fellow
named Jesus. So while I am in the wish making mood and I KNOW this wish is
going to come true, I want to make a wish for my young friend and a Christmas
wish for the whole world. I know my life is a gift and I treat is as
such. But you know I have already talked to you about my need to do this
for a just cause. I have to keep my promise to my friend regardless.
So I am having to give this gift of life back to you and I am request you give
it to Jesus -- so he can come back into this and open up the eyes and ears of
the blind and deaf and put some peace, joy, and good will toward man like the
Christmas saying goes. In the same breath I gave you the other wish --- I
give you this one and because I have -- I know it has already come true --- even
through I have not seen it with my own eyes -- I KNOW it has come true. I
leave this world full of joy KNOWING the wishes I gave to you are going to come
I punched the foot pedal to the gas and
sped off down a dirt road with full intention of crashing it and giving my life
for a cause I believed in with all my heart. Of course, as my story goes
--- I woke up from my 1978 NDE the next day with amnesia toward the "spiritual"
side of my life prior to the age of 18. (The NDE happened on my 18th
Like I said -- there was a tiered effect
in the communication of the wish I gave in physical, and spiritual form..
The other two layers are complicated to express in human language.
I woke up the next morning looking for
two things and those two things mystified my mind. One of the things I was
looking was none other than Jesus himself. I thought I had gone insane,
but I had no doubt that one day --- I was going to see his light shinning in the
world. I wouldn't know what he looked like outwardly --- but I felt
inwardly that I would know the essence of his light any where. It
took me a while to shrug that urge off --- but I went in search of clues to who
the heck Jesus was and why I felt I was going to find him in the world.
After I went in search of his meaning through the fundamental community -- I
didn't even like him and at one stage I had no desire what so ever to meet
him. 20 years after my 1978 NDE --- it is so ironic to me to look
back on my own years of blindness and amnesia and study the various stages of my
own mental understanding and spiritual faith. Not once from 1978 to 1998
did I ever confess a faith or belief in any one named
Jesus/Yeshua/Christ/SonofGod. It was shocking to discover a moment
hidden in my past where I was willing at one time to lay down my life for
the cause of this one.
I think the thing to remember and take
into consideration --- is that I don't feel I am the author of my life
story. I am just the guy who gets to write about it. I fell like I
am the "ghost writer" commissioned to pen the story. I feel "spirit" has
been the author of the story ---- and it often leaves me mystified and
breathless at the wonder and awe at the core of the story.
The is a great deal more that goes with
the story then what I have presented here. The myth in which every culture
that "Christ/figure" emerges has it that the One is born of a virgin.
Two common themes --- the virgin birth and the resurrection. I may have
been resurrected --- but the full story I am meant to tell ---- don't have
me as the person or human that has a segment expressed concerning the
parable of a "virgin birth." The resurrection aspect is covered
in another person's story related to mine -- and the "virgin
birth" parable falls on their shoulders and not mine.
This whole thread started because I
expressed to Jon that I felt I knew that one was going to return not
by my FAITH in the moment, but because I felt it had been given me to
know. Knowing what I feel I know started out with a great deal of faith
when sitting in that car at the age of 17 with my foot on the gas
pedal. (Caution -- don't try this at home. What I did in hindsight
--- I can state it was done by a trained professional in spiritual
matters. The messengers of light guided me to the right decision.)
In this moment -- I am very aware that
people can look at me in many different ways.
- A totally insane man.
- Someone self centered and desperate for
- Someone looking to write a good
fictionized modern day story with the "Christ" drama as the theme to write a
best seller -- and make lots and lots of money. And using this list to
get ideas to promote an authentic feel to the fictionalized story.
- OR -- someone who is burden with a great
deal of responsibly and overwhelmed in his own mental capacity of
understanding and finds himself --- very -- very alone with no one in the
world to share his insights on an equal basis with. With that -- he
finds himself very human dealing with all the issues of being human.
Doubt, fear, anger, love, kindness, hope, faith, and dreams.
How you view it is your choice. I
have no idea how I would look at some of the things I share on the Internet --
if it didn't actually happen to me.
I have no intention of writing on an
email list and convincing anyone that what I write about concerning the mystical
aspects or the physical aspects of my NDE's are true and real. My motive
is the same as it was when I woke up at the age of 18 with amnesia. I went
out into the world as a young man looking for Jesus. The mystical aspect
is that I came back from my NDE with video tapes I played in my head over and
over again for 5 years. That is a metaphor. I once told a friend,
"Where ever it was that I went to when I
thought I was dead --- I brought back all these home movies. It is like I
got a film projector in my head and someone just loads them up and plays at any
given moment. I think they are like home movies of the Jesus fellow you
believe in. I can't make out heads or tails when it plays. They all
talk gibberish to my mind. It is like being around a bunch of Japanese
people gibbering away in their own secret language. It is like watching a
movie in a foreign language. I have to study the facial expressions and
body movements to get any kind of idea what heck they are talking about.
If these movie like things in my head are about the Jesus fellow you keep going
on about --- he is NOTHING like you told me about him. I know I am going
to get confused before it is over with. All I know is --- I am looking for
Jesus and I feel like I got home movies of him playing in my
head. The way you tell the story you would have me looking for
some guy standing in the middle of a lake pulling dead zombies out of it and
placing them zombies to walk on earth. I don't know about you -- but
I see some guy walking on water --- that is going to be enough to send me
running the other way as fast as I can. Much less wait around for
the second act where he pull's zombies out of the lake. Your
version of him sounds like some B-Grade late night horror show. This is
what they teach you about Jesus in Church. I don't think I am going
there to be learning anything about him. I can stay home late one night
and watch a good movie --- and get all I need to know from your Church
Which brings to mind an element given to
me in the prophecies of my NDE. The "Fear
If in 1983 -- I would have picked up a
newspaper and the headline read ---
"JESUS is back in
the World. He is camped out in Omaha."
I would have been headed for Omaha --
because of my inner desire to find this mystical figure embedded in the minds of
the world --- only because I woke up one morning and felt it was
my destiny. (I told this to a friend and he did inform me that this
went against prophecy. I agree. It does.) When I
expressed this to my friend -- I was trying to express some kind of horror flick
star showing up doing some real time horror. (Throwing people alive into a
lake of burning fire and such.) As compared to a story or a
movie which is sort of made up version --- some people were
expecting a real version to emerge and for him to show back up and do
some real damage in the world.
For those of you who have known me over
the years. That is my adversary. The "Fear Factor." From Steve
to Aaron -- to our newest member Jon. I look at their expressed fears,
study them and learn from it. Fear has its root. It is easier
to comprehend away from a religious fundamental view, but when the time comes --
the greatest "fear factor" is going to come from the Fundamentalist
community. Going back to the original thread again --- they are all
expecting some kind of "doomsday."
Going back to your original question
Linda ^i^ about my belief (or gnosis -- how ever you want to look at it,) if I
didn't know what I knew --and had to go on belief and faith alone --- I would
find the greatest comfort in what you expressed you believed as the second
Why? (In fact -- for 20 years of my life
-- that was my expressed belief.)
Why? Because it eliminates the "fear
factor" associated with the mythological "second coming." I say
mythological -- because from my point of view of what has been given me to know
-- the "Armageddon" aspect associated with fear --- only exists in the minds of
humans --- and has no root in the "truth of spirit" other than a parable
and metaphor taken out of content and misinterpreted.
With all this said Linda -- I feel at
home here and talking to you in front of a vast audience of people. When
you and I started out here -- there was just a few compared the numbers we have
today. To answer your question (the one you asked with your heart at the
on start of this tread.)
Who was Jesus in ancient times in a
My answer would be --- "a messenger of a
Why on earth would he need to reincarnate
To clarify the difference between the
"messenger" and the "message" and point the finger at the meaning of the new
covenant with clarification and meaning .........not as the author of the new
covenant --- but once again as the "messenger."
I wish you could close your eyes and go
back in time with me to moment recorded in spiritual history. I wish you
could close your eyes and go back in time and sit in the front seat with me when
I was 17 years old. I wish you could close your eyes and feel everything
that was in my heart in that moment. The moment symbolizes one
thing. In that moment -- my ego mind felt it was the messenger. I
passed on that responsiblity to another and gave life for the message.
When I look back on that moment --- I know without a doubt the message is more
important than the messenger. When I thought I was leaving this world for
good when I was 17 --- it didn't matter to my mind who delivered the message ---
just as long as the message got delivered.
Linda --- I count you as a very dear and
old friend to me. This last week -- I felt in your touch -- the touch of
the one I call my Real Mother. She knows my pain. She knows my hurt
and she hears my cries. For the friend in that spirit -- I would love to
kiss you on your cheek.
With that said -- I would like to address
another dear and old friend.
this particular bridge of belief before with you, are
you still of
the mind that you yourself are the One, that you, Dave
Jesus come again in form?
As an old
friend -- I hope I am able to speak my mind with ease and without
prejudice. I do have a memory of speaking (or writing) to you in
confidence. Meaning that I had a private conversation with you concerning
thoughts I entertained as I progressed forward to my destiny. I don't have
a hard copy version of the conversation you make mention of in this post.
I do remember that I was searching for a different writing voice concerning the
expression of the knowledge I attained during my 1978 and 1988 NDE.
here on this list mainly because of a sense of
spiritual family. A sense of spiritual and intellectual association
in the pursuit of truth. A sense of brotherhood and compassion.
would it serve this family of list members to give you a direct answer?
here is blind to the bridge you make mention of. I myself am not blind to
it. I was there. I walked it with you. You walked away from
first --- I am a writer. I am an artist. I want to take a portrait
of you on canvass. I want to take a picture of you. I want to
capture your expression when I ask,
"What if I am
My question is
and has been for 5 years now ---
"How you gonna
act if I am him?"
SNAP ---- I
want a picture and a poem of your expression and of that "SNAP."
Go in jest
with me. I have to jest with the serious nature of your question. (I
have to say -- I think it is out of content with this group.)
But --- to
answer your question in a direct manner,
"NAW ---- this
week ---- I am Lazarus reborn and reincarnated."
In the year of
1988 -- I woke up from a NDE.
I spoke truth
in direct manner of speech.
Someone made a
joke that lead to mockery of my testimony after my 1988 NDE. I told him
this and I will tell everyone on this list in the same spirit I told him.
on. HOLD ON. You have no idea what you just said to me. You have NO
idea who I am. God forgive us both for our ignorance. I had no idea
---- NOW I do. We HAVE to SAY a prayer for this."
I will say my
You can say
You asked me a
question. I will give you my response I have given everyone that feels a
need in heart and spirit to ask that question.
Father who I am. TRUST in your Fathers answer to your question."
Mazie --- I hope and pray --- that is ther answer to your question.
That is the only answer my heart has to give.