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Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...

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  • valerie sumner
    From Valerie in Australia, You know I also have many doubts even though I have had a nde, and obe s and visions of future & past. When I get like you unsure of
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 1, 2013
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      Click Me!From Valerie in Australia,
       
      You know I also have many doubts even though I have had a nde, and obe's and visions of future & past. When I get like you unsure of my worth I write poetry, it is a way to mend my Soul, to be of some worth. My childhood was not always  in a happy frame of mind.  On the 25th May I was in  a low state of mind so I wrote a Poem.
       
               A HORSE'S PRAYER
       
      Spare me the whip and the harshness of hand
      Allow for my horse brain to understand
      These feelings I share with you in my work
      Allow me with joy to raise my head
      With impulsion I carry my weight with ease
      Uphill or downhill amongst the trees
      Caress my neck often with LOVE
      For I am your servant often misunderstood
      And when I grow I older keep me I PRAY
      Don't turn me over to an early grave
      For though I'm a horse I have my pride
      For you are a human and must decide
      But I hope in your heart you remember me
      For all of the hard work I gave to thee
      For now I am old I crave a warm bed
      A carpet of straw to lay my head
       
       
      Written by Valerie Sumner 25/5/13
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: 31/05/2013 7:46:30 AM
      Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
       
       

      What has brought me to the group?

      I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

      Something is trying to break open through me.

      Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from m y own experience.

      Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

      I thought I was on a good course.

      Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.

      One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

      At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...

      But how?

      Mary

       
       
    • Eileen Lima
      What a wonderful email, so touching! I do hope you find what you are looking for in this group Mary. You sound like a very giving, loving person and I do
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 1, 2013
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        What a wonderful email, so touching!  I do hope you find what you are looking for in this group Mary.  You sound like a very giving, loving person and I do hope things change for you very soon.

        I rarely write anything on here but I often read mails that others write.  Yours really touched something in me. Welcome to the group!

        Warmest wishes
        Eileen


        On 30 May 2013 21:35, mhworkout101 <mhworkout101@...> wrote:
        What has brought me to the group?

        I can say that this journey for me started last fall.  Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively.  I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently.  I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them.  I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also  had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart.  I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point.  I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is.  I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

        Something is trying to break open through me.

        Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is.  I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out.  At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father.  We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes.  I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth.  Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her.  I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that.  I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training.  After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either.  I shifted my focus to healing from my own experience.

        Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing.  I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year.  I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

        I thought I was on a good course.

        Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool.  It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed.  I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone.  My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving.  Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless.  I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way.  I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love.  I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love.  I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message.  Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself.  I'm not good enough.  It's terrible.

        One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside.  I thought to lend some of my time volunteering.  I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively.  Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces.  Those children are very special.  Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

        At any rate I feel so lost and confused.  So here I am.  I appreciate you taking the time to read my story.  I just joined this group and feel very welcomed.  I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world.  I have since I was a young child...

        But how?

        Mary




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      • Eileen Lima
        I think many of us feel as you do Kenlyn and have the same questions. I know I do! I am sure you will get some interesting answers from the very wise members
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 1, 2013
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          I think many of us feel as you do Kenlyn and have the same questions.  I know I do!  I am sure you will get some interesting answers from the very wise members of this group!  I will certainly be looking in to read them myself!

          All the very best
          Eileen


          On 31 May 2013 01:29, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
          What brought me to this group…….

          I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through.  Questioning whether indeed there is life after death.  Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next?  Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds?   Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?

          Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives?  Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?

          So many questions flying around in my head.  I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's.  I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it.  I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.

          If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great.  Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions.  Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.

          Thanks,
          Kenlyn
          (50ish female)



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        • rdgiroux
          Mary, welcome to the group. You re an angel, you love everybody in your life, you enjoy helping and caring for these children. You don t judge any of them but
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 1, 2013
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            Mary, welcome to the group.
            You're an angel, you love everybody in your life, you enjoy helping and caring for these children. You don't judge any of them but you do that to yourself.
            Why? I would be confused too.
            You're a great communicator in words, write down why you think you are not worth anything.
            Tell us if you think we can help.
            On feeling depressed, I think you might be deficient in Vitamin B complex. Search Dr Mercola site on the net and get reliable info on depression

            What has brought me to the group?

            I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently.........
          • rdgiroux
            Kenlyn welcome to the group, Lots of questions, many answers There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit. The materialist view sees
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
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              Kenlyn welcome to the group,

              Lots of questions, many answers

              There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
              The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
              The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
              Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

              I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

              If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

              http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
              NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
              One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

              http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
              NDE James T on psychic abilities
              So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


              Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
              I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

              Denis, late 60ish.

              --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
              >
              > What brought me to this group…….
              >
              > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
              >
              > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
              >
              > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
              >
              > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Kenlyn
              > (50ish female)
              >
            • Marie Pugh
              Almost six years ago ( September 11, 2007) my eldest son, Danny, died by suicide at age 33. At the time I was agnostic. I had never experience a sign from
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
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                Almost six years ago ( September 11, 2007) my eldest son, Danny, died by suicide at age 33. 
                At the time I was agnostic. I had never experience a "sign" from anybody who had died. I believe I have from Danny.
                However, sometimes I question if it's because I WANT to believe they are signs or if they really ARE signs.
                My desire to know that he's "okay" has been overwhelming at times.
                So, here I am. 

                Marie, mom to Danny 12/18/73-09/11/07 and Jeremy. Mil to Stefani.

                ""It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."
                Danny was: 
                Generous
                Friendly 
                Inclusive
                Adventurous
                Lived life to the fullest
                Lived in the moment
                Didn't hold grudges 
                Never gossiped 
                Loved unconditionally. 



                On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, "rdgiroux" <rdgiroux@...> wrote:

                 


                Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                Lots of questions, many answers

                There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                NDE James T on psychic abilities
                So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                Denis, late 60ish.

                --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                >
                > What brought me to this group…….
                >
                > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                >
                > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                >
                > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                >
                > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Kenlyn
                > (50ish female)
                >

              • Kenlyn Miller
                I m finding all this very confusing. I ve been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it. It s like taking calculus before
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
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                  I'm finding all this very confusing.  I've been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it.  It's like taking calculus before taking algebra.  I need the basics as a foundation for the rest to make sense.  

                  I don't have a lot to build on except for having some basic knowledge of the Bible which I'm finding can be looked at and interpreted many different ways.  So, please bear with me if I need to take it slow and need the dumbed down version to start with.  

                  What started my quest into this field of study was a nagging thought, that as an Evangelical Christian, my belief system, had become way too simple.  I don't believe in twisting things up to make them more complicated but the Evangelical beliefs about "Grace" and accepting the Bible at face value, just as it is written, seemed like they were missing something because it had become overly simplified.  That raised a red flag in my head.  

                  I also had a few experiences with some psychic/ghost/angel stuff that didn't mesh with my current belief system.  That led me to the subject of reincarnation.  As I was researching it, the subject of  NDE's kept coming up.  I've never had a NDE, nor can I remember any past lives but suddenly people with these experiences were showing up in my life.  

                  So, to begin with, we each have a soul and a spirit.  Can you explain the difference?  Also, doesn't one of them travel with us from life to life?

                  Kenlyn




                  On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, rdgiroux wrote:

                   


                  Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                  Lots of questions, many answers

                  There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                  The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                  The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                  Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                  I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                  If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                  http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                  NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                  One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                  http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                  NDE James T on psychic abilities
                  So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                  Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                  I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                  Denis, late 60ish.

                  --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > What brought me to this group…….
                  >
                  > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                  >
                  > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                  >
                  > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                  >
                  > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Kenlyn
                  > (50ish female)
                  >


                • Linda Stewart
                  Dear Kenlyn, I, too, came from a fundamentalist background – Southern Baptist. So much of it simply didn’t make sense to me. I started studying all kinds
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Kenlyn,
                    I, too, came from a fundamentalist background – Southern Baptist.  So much of it simply didn’t make sense to me.  I started studying all kinds of things as I grew away from the church and I’m glad I did.  When I had my NDE in 1990, having had an open mind, I believe, was helpful for me as I assimilated all the wonderful things that were shown to me.
                        No one will rush you.  This is a very patient and loving group.  Questions are welcome and encourage – as are answers from different people’s perspectives.
                        As for the difference between soul and spirit...well, while some people may differentiate, for me they are pretty interchangeable.  It’s just language to try to explain that there is some magical and very alive movement within us that is more than the body/mind and that helps define our immortality through continuity.
                    With love,
                    Linda
                     
                    Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 4:37 PM
                    Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                     
                     

                    I'm finding all this very confusing.  I've been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it.  It's like taking calculus before taking algebra.  I need the basics as a foundation for the rest to make sense.  

                     
                    I don't have a lot to build on except for having some basic knowledge of the Bible which I'm finding can be looked at and interpreted many different ways.  So, please bear with me if I need to take it slow and need the dumbed down version to start with. 
                     
                    What started my quest into this field of study was a nagging thought, that as an Evangelical Christian, my belief system, had become way too simple.  I don't believe in twisting things up to make them more complicated but the Evangelical beliefs about "Grace" and accepting the Bible at face value, just as it is written, seemed like they were missing something because it had become overly simplified.  That raised a red flag in my head. 
                     
                    I also had a few experiences with some psychic/ghost/angel stuff that didn't mesh with my current belief system.  That led me to the subject of reincarnation.  As I was researching it, the subject of  NDE's kept coming up.  I've never had a NDE, nor can I remember any past lives but suddenly people with these experiences were showing up in my life. 
                     
                    So, to begin with, we each have a soul and a spirit.  Can you explain the difference?  Also, doesn't one of them travel with us from life to life?
                     
                    Kenlyn
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, rdgiroux wrote:

                     


                    Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                    Lots of questions, many answers

                    There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                    The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                    The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                    Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                    I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                    If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                    NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                    One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                    NDE James T on psychic abilities
                    So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                    Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                    I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                    Denis, late 60ish.

                    --- In mailto:nde%40yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > What brought me to this group…….
                    >
                    > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                    >
                    > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                    >
                    > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                    >
                    > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Kenlyn
                    > (50ish female)
                    >

                     
                  • Linda Stewart
                    I love the pictures I have seen of your with your horses. This poem just shows how much you love them. With love, Linda From: valerie sumner Sent: Saturday,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I love the pictures I have seen of your with your horses.  This poem just shows how much you love them.
                      With love,
                      Linda
                       
                      Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 8:20 AM
                      Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                       
                       

                       
                       
                      Click Me!From Valerie in Australia,
                       
                      You know I also have many doubts even though I have had a nde, and obe's and visions of future & past. When I get like you unsure of my worth I write poetry, it is a way to mend my Soul, to be of some worth. My childhood was not always  in a happy frame of mind.  On the 25th May I was in  a low state of mind so I wrote a Poem.
                       
                               A HORSE'S PRAYER
                       
                      Spare me the whip and the harshness of hand
                      Allow for my horse brain to understand
                      These feelings I share with you in my work
                      Allow me with joy to raise my head
                      With impulsion I carry my weight with ease
                      Uphill or downhill amongst the trees
                      Caress my neck often with LOVE
                      For I am your servant often misunderstood
                      And when I grow I older keep me I PRAY
                      Don't turn me over to an early grave
                      For though I'm a horse I have my pride
                      For you are a human and must decide
                      But I hope in your heart you remember me
                      For all of the hard work I gave to thee
                      For now I am old I crave a warm bed
                      A carpet of straw to lay my head
                       
                       
                      Written by Valerie Sumner 25/5/13
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      -------Original Message-------
                       
                      Date: 31/05/2013 7:46:30 AM
                      Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                       
                       

                      What has brought me to the group?

                      I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

                      Something is trying to break open through me.

                      Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from m y own experience.

                      Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

                      I thought I was on a good course.

                      Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.

                      One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

                      At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...

                      But how?

                      Mary

                       
                       
                    • Kenlyn Miller
                      It took me awhile to get to the place where I realized I didn t need to attend a house of worship every week for higher learning and communion with God. That
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It took me awhile to get to the place where I  realized I didn't need to attend a house of worship every week for higher learning and communion with God.  That God wouldn't love me any less because I didn't go each Sunday. 

                        In some aspects, I felt I was continuing to move forward in my studies and knowledge and the churches were stuck in a place of reaching unbelievers.  I not saying that is a bad thing.  For that's where it all starts.  But they weren't providing the knowledge to keep me growing towards higher learning that I needed to quench this thirst of mine.   

                        And, of course, now I've reached a new and exciting level where many new concepts have been opened up to me.  Something my old church could never give me.  I still attend once in awhile because I like to sing the hymns and commune with others.  But I no longer feel the guilt of not attending.  Which was a huge burden off my shoulders and made moving forward even easier.  

                        And like you, I'm so glad I did!

                        Kenlyn

                         
                        On Jun 2, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Linda Stewart wrote:

                         

                        Dear Kenlyn,
                        I, too, came from a fundamentalist background – Southern Baptist.  So much of it simply didn’t make sense to me.  I started studying all kinds of things as I grew away from the church and I’m glad I did.  When I had my NDE in 1990, having had an open mind, I believe, was helpful for me as I assimilated all the wonderful things that were shown to me.
                            No one will rush you.  This is a very patient and loving group.  Questions are welcome and encourage – as are answers from different people’s perspectives.
                            As for the difference between soul and spirit...well, while some people may differentiate, for me they are pretty interchangeable.  It’s just language to try to explain that there is some magical and very alive movement within us that is more than the body/mind and that helps define our immortality through continuity.
                        With love,
                        Linda
                         
                        Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 4:37 PM
                        Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                         
                         

                        I'm finding all this very confusing.  I've been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it.  It's like taking calculus before taking algebra.  I need the basics as a foundation for the rest to make sense.  

                         
                        I don't have a lot to build on except for having some basic knowledge of the Bible which I'm finding can be looked at and interpreted many different ways.  So, please bear with me if I need to take it slow and need the dumbed down version to start with. 
                         
                        What started my quest into this field of study was a nagging thought, that as an Evangelical Christian, my belief system, had become way too simple.  I don't believe in twisting things up to make them more complicated but the Evangelical beliefs about "Grace" and accepting the Bible at face value, just as it is written, seemed like they were missing something because it had become overly simplified.  That raised a red flag in my head. 
                         
                        I also had a few experiences with some psychic/ghost/angel stuff that didn't mesh with my current belief system.  That led me to the subject of reincarnation.  As I was researching it, the subject of  NDE's kept coming up.  I've never had a NDE, nor can I remember any past lives but suddenly people with these experiences were showing up in my life. 
                         
                        So, to begin with, we each have a soul and a spirit.  Can you explain the difference?  Also, doesn't one of them travel with us from life to life?
                         
                        Kenlyn
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, rdgiroux wrote:

                         


                        Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                        Lots of questions, many answers

                        There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                        The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                        The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                        Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                        I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                        If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                        http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                        NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                        One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                        http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                        NDE James T on psychic abilities
                        So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                        Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                        I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                        Denis, late 60ish.

                        --- In mailto:nde%40yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What brought me to this group…….
                        >
                        > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                        >
                        > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                        >
                        > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                        >
                        > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Kenlyn
                        > (50ish female)
                        >

                         


                      • Eileen Lima
                        Hi Marie, my heart aches for you. I cannot imagine how awful that must be, I am so sorry! I have a son called Danny too, now nearly 42. I so hope you find
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 3, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Marie, my heart aches for you.  I cannot imagine how awful that must be, I am so sorry!  I have a son called Danny too, now nearly 42.

                          I so hope you find answers in this group or in other ways.

                          Warm thoughts
                          Eileen


                          On 2 June 2013 20:17, Marie Pugh <pugh_dm@...> wrote:


                          Almost six years ago ( September 11, 2007) my eldest son, Danny, died by suicide at age 33. 
                          At the time I was agnostic. I had never experience a "sign" from anybody who had died. I believe I have from Danny.
                          However, sometimes I question if it's because I WANT to believe they are signs or if they really ARE signs.
                          My desire to know that he's "okay" has been overwhelming at times.
                          So, here I am. 

                          Marie, mom to Danny 12/18/73-09/11/07 and Jeremy. Mil to Stefani.

                          ""It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."
                          Danny was: 
                          Generous
                          Friendly 
                          Inclusive
                          Adventurous
                          Lived life to the fullest
                          Lived in the moment
                          Didn't hold grudges 
                          Never gossiped 
                          Loved unconditionally. 



                          On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, "rdgiroux" <rdgiroux@...> wrote:

                           


                          Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                          Lots of questions, many answers

                          There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                          The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                          The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                          Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                          I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                          If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                          http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                          NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                          One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                          http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                          NDE James T on psychic abilities
                          So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                          Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                          I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                          Denis, late 60ish.

                          --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > What brought me to this group…….
                          >
                          > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                          >
                          > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                          >
                          > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                          >
                          > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Kenlyn
                          > (50ish female)
                          >




                        • Marie Pugh
                          Thank you Marie, mom to Danny 12/18/73-09/11/07 and Jeremy. Mil to Stefani. Moderator It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 3, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thank you

                            Marie, mom to Danny 12/18/73-09/11/07 and Jeremy. Mil to Stefani.
                            Moderator
                            ""It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."
                            Danny was:
                            Generous
                            Friendly
                            Inclusive
                            Adventurous
                            Lived life to the fullest
                            Lived in the moment
                            Didn't hold grudges
                            Never gossiped
                            Loved unconditionally.



                            On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:06 AM, Eileen Lima <eileen.lima@...> wrote:

                            > Eileen
                          • Noni
                            I have a sister who lost a son almost 29 years ago. As you probably know -it changed my sister and I had to get to know this new sister. My love for her has
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 3, 2013
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                              I have a sister who lost a son almost 29 years ago. As you probably know
                              -it changed my sister and I had to get to know this new sister. My love
                              for her has grown stronger over the years. I know that every 'Tommy'
                              memorial day and every birthday I should call her had give her my
                              condolences. She deals with anxiety and depression at times. Other times
                              she is joyful, loving and busy with life. I've been told that the grief
                              process is something like losing an arm or leg. We learn to go on- while
                              knowing things will never be the same.

                              I strongly believe that we are never alone. We will experience many and
                              perhaps nearly all of life's challenges during our life's path. It is
                              common for all of us to see death as 'defeat'. But it is not 'defeat'.
                              It is another part of 'Life'. I've been told that Life has no opposite.
                              The opposite of death is birth.

                              Since our spirit/soul is eternal then, IMO, mysterious signs and
                              coincidences are not random occurrences. One of my favorite you-tubes
                              about 'beyond chance' is this one..
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AClVSWvNsWw

                              Some people do say there is a difference in meaning between spirit/soul
                              but I also use them to mean the same thing. To try to put it to words..
                              Its that spark of light consciousness that is eternal.
                              Love, Noni

                              On 6/2/2013 3:17 PM, Marie Pugh wrote:
                              > Almost six years ago ( September 11, 2007) my eldest son, Danny, died
                              > by suicide at age 33.
                              > At the time I was agnostic. I had never experience a "sign" from
                              > anybody who had died. I believe I have from Danny.
                              > However, sometimes I question if it's because I WANT to believe they
                              > are signs or if they really ARE signs.
                              > My desire to know that he's "okay" has been overwhelming at times.
                              > So, here I am.
                              >
                              > Marie, mom to Danny 12/18/73-09/11/07 and Jeremy. Mil to Stefani.
                              >
                              > ""It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is
                              > essential is invisible to the eye."
                              > Danny was:
                              > Generous
                              > Friendly
                              > Inclusive
                              > Adventurous
                              > Lived life to the fullest
                              > Lived in the moment
                              > Didn't hold grudges
                              > Never gossiped
                              > Loved unconditionally.
                              >
                            • monty w
                              Dear Kenlyn I believe in both heaven and hell, if you want a description of hell look at a forest fire that is burning as far as you can see and that gives a
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 3, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Kenlyn I believe in both heaven and hell, if you want a description of hell look at a forest fire that is burning as far as you can see and that gives a somewhat inaccurate description of hell. Heaven is everything the Bible says it is as revealed to either John The Baptist or any of the other prophets.

                                From: Eileen Lima <eileen.lima@...>
                                To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 12:45:29 PM
                                Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                 
                                I think many of us feel as you do Kenlyn and have the same questions.  I know I do!  I am sure you will get some interesting answers from the very wise members of this group!  I will certainly be looking in to read them myself!

                                All the very best
                                Eileen
                                On 31 May 2013 01:29, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                                What brought me to this group…….

                                I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through.  Questioning whether indeed there is life after death.  Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next?  Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds?   Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?

                                Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives?  Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?

                                So many questions flying around in my head.  I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's.  I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it.  I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.

                                If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great.  Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions.  Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.

                                Thanks,
                                Kenlyn
                                (50ish female)
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                              • Noni
                                From my understanding the Bible refers to 3 different kinds of hell; Hell, Sheol, and Hades. Some versions of the Bible changed all three of these to one word,
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 3, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  From my understanding the Bible refers to 3 different kinds of hell;
                                  Hell, Sheol, and Hades. Some versions of the Bible changed all three of
                                  these to one word, hell. This makes an interpretation of what hell
                                  really is, very difficult to know. Thus, it comes to 'belief' and many
                                  Churches have a different belief of what hell is.

                                  From the NDE point of view- there are many who reported Hell-Like
                                  experiences. Some of them described a void but still felt it was a
                                  hell-like experience. Some believe that just as heaven has many
                                  dimensions -hell does to.. I liked reading what NDEr Mellen-Thomas
                                  Benedict said about heaven and hell. Of course I have enjoyed reading
                                  what all NDErs have said about God/Heaven/Being in the
                                  Light/Unconditional Love. Would you like to share your NDE?

                                  If you are open to find out about how other NDErs experienced hell, then
                                  please read this website of quotes gathered by Kevin Williams. You may
                                  find it interesting.
                                  http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research14.html

                                  Love,
                                  Noni

                                  On 6/3/2013 5:14 PM, monty w wrote:
                                  > Dear Kenlyn I believe in both heaven and hell, if you want a
                                  > description of hell look at a forest fire that is burning as far as
                                  > you can see and that gives a somewhat inaccurate description of hell.
                                  > Heaven is everything the Bible says it is as revealed to either John
                                  > The Baptist or any of the other prophets.
                                • valerie sumner
                                  From Valerie in Australia. One had no need to go to a Church(except if they need fellowship) one may pray in a field if you so desire, or anywhere you choose,
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 4, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    From Valerie in Australia.
                                     
                                    One had no need to go to a Church(except if they need fellowship)  one may pray in a field if you so desire, or anywhere you choose, does not matter, the Prayer is the same and travels through the Cosmos just the same
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    -------Original Message-------
                                     
                                    Date: 3/06/2013 10:13:19 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [nde] Soul/Spirit - was: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                     
                                     

                                    It took me awhile to get to the place where I  realized I didn't need to attend a house of worship every week for higher learning and communion with God.  That God wouldn't love me any less because I didn't go each Sunday. 

                                    In some aspects, I felt I was continuing to move forward in my studies and knowledge and the churches were stuck in a place of reaching unbelievers.  I not saying that is a bad thing.  For that's where it all starts.  But they weren't providing the knowledge to keep me growing towards higher learning that I needed to quench this thirst of mine.   

                                    And, of course, now I've reached a new and exciting level where many new concepts have been opened up to me.  Something my old church could never give me.  I still attend once in awhile because I like to sing the hymns and commune with others.  But I no longer feel the guilt of not attending.  Which was a huge burden off my shoulders and made moving forward even easier.  

                                    And like you, I'm so glad I did!

                                    Kenlyn

                                     
                                    On Jun 2, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Linda Stewart wrote:

                                     

                                    Dear Kenlyn,
                                    I, too, came from a fundamentalist background – Southern Baptist.  So much of it simply didn’t make sense to me.  I started studying all kinds of things as I grew away from the church and I’m glad I did.  When I had my NDE in 1990, having had an open mind, I believe, was helpful for me as I assimilated all the wonderful things that were shown to me.
                                        No one will rush you.  This is a very patient and loving group.  Questions are welcome and encourage – as are answers from different people’s perspectives.
                                        As for the difference between soul and spirit...well, while some people may differentiate, for me they are pretty interchangeable.  It’s just language to try to explain that there is some magical and very alive movement within us that is more than the body/mind and that helps define our immortality through continuity.
                                    With love,
                                    Linda
                                     
                                    Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 4:37 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                     
                                     

                                    I'm finding all this very confusing.  I've been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it.  It's like taking calculus before taking algebra.  I need the basics as a foundation for the rest to make sense.  

                                     
                                    I don't have a lot to build on except for having some basic knowledge of the Bible which I'm finding can be looked at and interpreted many different ways.  So, please bear with me if I need to take it slow and need the dumbed down version to start with. 
                                     
                                    What started my quest into this field of study was a nagging thought, that as an Evangelical Christian, my belief system, had become way too simple.  I don't believe in twisting things up to make them more complicated but the Evangelical beliefs about "Grace" and accepting the Bible at face value, just as it is written, seemed like they were missing something because it had become overly simplified.  That raised a red flag in my head. 
                                     
                                    I also had a few experiences with some psychic/ghost/angel stuff that didn't mesh with my current belief system.  That led me to the subject of reincarnation.  As I was researching it, the subject of  NDE's kept coming up.  I've never had a NDE, nor can I remember any past lives but suddenly people with these experiences were showing up in my life. 
                                     
                                    So, to begin with, we each have a soul and a spirit.  Can you explain the difference?  Also, doesn't one of them travel with us from life to life?
                                     
                                    Kenlyn
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, rdgiroux wrote:

                                     


                                    Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                                    Lots of questions, many answers

                                    There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                                    The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                                    The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                                    Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                                    I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                                    If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                                    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                                    NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                                    One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                                    http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                                    NDE James T on psychic abilities
                                    So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                                    Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                                    I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                                    Denis, late 60ish.

                                    --- In mailto:nde%40yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > What brought me to this group…….
                                    >
                                    > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                                    >
                                    > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                                    >
                                    > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                                    >
                                    > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    > Kenlyn
                                    > (50ish female)
                                    >

                                     


                                     
                                  • monty w
                                    My first nde was after a car accident in 1979 where my heart stopped and I had an out of body experience. in this experience my spirit left my body and I
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 4, 2013
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                                      My first nde was after a car accident in 1979 where my heart stopped and I had an out of body experience. in this experience my spirit left my body and I travelled through a darkness towards a light at the end of a tunnel or darkness. As I moved or walked towards the light I looked neither to my left or right up or down or in any direction other than the light. When I got there I was travelling from the Central America areas with more coming from North and South America's.  We (as a large group or army) moved towards Europe. When we got there it was just me moving at a very fast pace across some of the most wonderful landscape I have ever seen to a river. Standing on the other side of the river was my grandfather. He stood on a rock in the river and beckoned with his arms for me to cross the river and join him on the other side of the river. Being a teenager I wanted to run across and be with my grandfather but I felt a hand stopping me from crossing the river and I heard a voice that after the voice my grandfather disappeared. No lights no smoke and no beam me up Scotty he was just gone. As I later learned the voice was that of my grandmother speaking to my grandfather's ghost who had come to the hospital to collect me. She had argued with his ghost for several minutes and the n finally said to him "it is not his time yet" whereupon his ghost left. Fourteen years later while I was training to know God the mumbling I had heard in my out of body experience became clear to me. there wer also a lot of people praying for me in a province and a state where the accident occurred. had no one been praying for me nor my grandmother interceding for me I would not be alive today.
                                       
                                      From: Noni <kiwanis@...>
                                      To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 3:29:28 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                       
                                      From my understanding the Bible refers to 3 different kinds of hell;
                                      Hell, Sheol, and Hades. Some versions of the Bible changed all three of
                                      these to one word, hell. This makes an interpretation of what hell
                                      really is, very difficult to know. Thus, it comes to 'belief' and many
                                      Churches have a different belief of what hell is.

                                      From the NDE point of view- there are many who reported Hell-Like
                                      experiences. Some of them described a void but still felt it was a
                                      hell-like experience. Some believe that just as heaven has many
                                      dimensions -hell does to.. I liked reading what NDEr Mellen-Thomas
                                      Benedict said about heaven and hell. Of course I have enjoyed reading
                                      what all NDErs have said about God/Heaven/Being in the
                                      Light/Unconditional Love. Would you like to share your NDE?

                                      If you are open to find out about how other NDErs experienced hell, then
                                      please read this website of quotes gathered by Kevin Williams. You may
                                      find it interesting.
                                      http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research14.html

                                      Love,
                                      Noni

                                      On 6/3/2013 5:14 PM, monty w wrote:
                                      > Dear Kenlyn I believe in both heaven and hell, if you want a
                                      > description of hell look at a forest fire that is burning as far as
                                      > you can see and that gives a somewhat inaccurate description of hell.
                                      > Heaven is everything the Bible says it is as revealed to either John
                                      > The Baptist or any of the other prophets.

                                    • monty w
                                      I was taught several ways to pray by a former aide to President Reagan. First prayer was in seeking guidance it started off very simply 1) Acknowledge that you
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 4, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I was taught several ways to pray by a former aide to President Reagan. First prayer was in seeking guidance it started off very simply
                                        1) Acknowledge that you need a fresh revelation of God today
                                        2) Ask God for that revelation of Him
                                        3) Wait on God...........
                                        When I first said this prayer I was sitting beside a tree and what I saw was the a part of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I saw the spike being driven through the hand of Jesus Christ and that His Father God could not watch his son being crucified for man; so God had his back turned to His Son the only time ever that God and Jesus have not been in constant communication. I still get emotional when I remember this moment in my life . I have many other teachings from other teachers who are trying to help people to know God and make God known.

                                        From: valerie sumner <keela@...>
                                        To: Linda Stewart <nde@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 4:10:26 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [nde] Soul/Spirit - was: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                         
                                        From Valerie in Australia.
                                         
                                        One had no need to go to a Church(except if they need fellowship)  one may pray in a field if you so desire, or anywhere you choose, does not matter, the Prayer is the same and travels through the Cosmos just the same
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        -------Original Message-------
                                         
                                        Date: 3/06/2013 10:13:19 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [nde] Soul/Spirit - was: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                         
                                         
                                        It took me awhile to get to the place where I  realized I didn't need to attend a house of worship every week for higher learning and communion with God.  That God wouldn't love me any less because I didn't go each Sunday. 
                                        In some aspects, I felt I was continuing to move forward in my studies and knowledge and the churches were stuck in a place of reaching unbelievers.  I not saying that is a bad thing.  For that's where it all starts.  But they weren't providing the knowledge to keep me growing towards higher learning that I needed to quench this thirst of mine.   
                                        And, of course, now I've reached a new and exciting level where many new concepts have been opened up to me.  Something my old church could never give me.  I still attend once in awhile because I like to sing the hymns and commune with others.  But I no longer feel the guilt of not attending.  Which was a huge burden off my shoulders and made moving forward even easier.  
                                        And like you, I'm so glad I did!
                                        Kenlyn
                                         
                                        On Jun 2, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Linda Stewart wrote:
                                         
                                        Dear Kenlyn,
                                        I, too, came from a fundamentalist background – Southern Baptist.  So much of it simply didn’t make sense to me.  I started studying all kinds of things as I grew away from the church and I’m glad I did.  When I had my NDE in 1990, having had an open mind, I believe, was helpful for me as I assimilated all the wonderful things that were shown to me.
                                            No one will rush you.  This is a very patient and loving group.  Questions are welcome and encourage – as are answers from different people’s perspectives.
                                            As for the difference between soul and spirit...well, while some people may differentiate, for me they are pretty interchangeable.  It’s just language to try to explain that there is some magical and very alive movement within us that is more than the body/mind and that helps define our immortality through continuity.
                                        With love,
                                        Linda
                                         
                                        Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 4:37 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                         
                                         
                                        I'm finding all this very confusing.  I've been doing lots of reading but unfortunately understanding very little of it.  It's like taking calculus before taking algebra.  I need the basics as a foundation for the rest to make sense.  
                                         
                                        I don't have a lot to build on except for having some basic knowledge of the Bible which I'm finding can be looked at and interpreted many different ways.  So, please bear with me if I need to take it slow and need the dumbed down version to start with. 
                                         
                                        What started my quest into this field of study was a nagging thought, that as an Evangelical Christian, my belief system, had become way too simple.  I don't believe in twisting things up to make them more complicated but the Evangelical beliefs about "Grace" and accepting the Bible at face value, just as it is written, seemed like they were missing something because it had become overly simplified.  That raised a red flag in my head. 
                                         
                                        I also had a few experiences with some psychic/ghost/angel stuff that didn't mesh with my current belief system.  That led me to the subject of reincarnation.  As I was researching it, the subject of  NDE's kept coming up.  I've never had a NDE, nor can I remember any past lives but suddenly people with these experiences were showing up in my life. 
                                         
                                        So, to begin with, we each have a soul and a spirit.  Can you explain the difference?  Also, doesn't one of them travel with us from life to life?
                                         
                                        Kenlyn
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:38 PM, rdgiroux wrote:
                                         

                                        Kenlyn welcome to the group,

                                        Lots of questions, many answers

                                        There are two concept concerning consciousness/spirit.
                                        The materialist view sees consciousness/spirit has a by-product of evolution and manifest itself in humans.
                                        The other view (I have no label for this one) sees consciousness/spirit existing independently from the human, animal, vegetal, cellular matrix.
                                        Materialist have the upper hand at the moment, but are loosing ground.

                                        I accept the view that Consciousness/spirit exist, so a soul entity takes up physicality to experience life and grow into LIGHT. In doing so the soul accept the limitations involved in operating at a lower vibration, the disconnect from higher knowledge, the introduction of physical pain, the gain of free choice and the risk of not being able to accomplish the mission because of unforeseen developments and bad choices.

                                        If you accept the consciousness/spirit entity as the true reality you get positive answers to life after death, to the existence of the LIGHT (God), to Jesus experiencing life here, to all the stories and parables in the Bible, in the Baghavat Gita, the Toran etc…, to reincarnation, to Satan (this is a mind/ego creation) and heaven (not a place, a state of being).

                                        http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                                        NDE 1634 Henry W on ghosts
                                        One question I always personally had and that was answered is, "Are ghosts real?" The answer I was given was, "Yes, in the human body their are two forms of spiritual being. One is the "soul" which is the spiritual being that has a symbiotic relationship with the physical body. The second is the being created by the "biology" of the human body. This being is intelligent and is basically the personality of the individual. Its purpose is to provide for the human needs of food, hunger, survival, and procreation. This concept is very similar to Freud's "Id, Ego and Superego" The division of mind and personality. The soul provides us with all the things of the individual that separates us from the Animal Kingdom. This is the ability to reason, use logic, or feel awe when seeing a sunset. The soul is the creative side of humankind. The second being is more our animal side and drives us to accomplish or pursue things to satisfy our needs and wants.

                                        http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/Exceptional Accounts.htm
                                        NDE James T on psychic abilities
                                        So in truth, there actually is only one physical thing, as the universe, with only one mind. You get occasional glimpses of this connection with things like psychic abilities or within people like idiot savants, and other things that baffle science. For whatever reason, they are simply tied into this connection. For example, think of a place quite far away, you can instantly be there in your mind, needing no time to get there. Thought is the one thing that can travel faster than light since it doesn't exist in space or time.


                                        Enough said for now, I am waiting for the sky to fall, to read your comments on the above and read what nde'rs in the group have to say on your questions.
                                        I did not have a NDE, I have read many accounts, learned a lot from them in the past 6 months.

                                        Denis, late 60ish.

                                        --- In mailto:nde%40yahoogroups.com, Kenlyn Miller <kenlyn@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > What brought me to this group…….
                                        >
                                        > I am trying to connect the dots between some major religious struggles I am going through. Questioning whether indeed there is life after death. Is there a God and did Jesus really walk this earth? Is there any truth to the Bible or are all the stories and parables just folklore passed down from one generation to the next? Is reincarnation something from the heavenly realms or is Satan messing with our minds? Is there even a Satan or a place called Hell?
                                        >
                                        > Why are some people able to tap into spiritual things like messages from heaven or from dead people or relatives? Why can some people see ghosts and others can't? What makes some people more psychic than others (when using this gift properly)?
                                        >
                                        > So many questions flying around in my head. I figured a good starting point would be to read and talk to people who had experienced NDE's. I've always found when you want the real deal, talk to people who have lived it. I have no concrete answers for any of the above questions except for the fact I am pretty sure there is more out there after I leave this earthly body.
                                        >
                                        > If anyone is interested in some ongoing dialog in the days and weeks ahead and tackling some or all of the above questions that would be great. Maybe there are others out there who also have some of the same questions. Just getting different perspectives provides substance for the hungry mind.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Kenlyn
                                        > (50ish female)
                                        >

                                         
                                         
                                      • Venugopal AK
                                        Dear Mary,                          Your experiences touched me. My humble prayers for your well being. It is not a crime to be unhappy, but it
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 6, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Mary,
                                                                   Your experiences touched me. My humble prayers for your well being. "It is not a crime to be unhappy, but it is not OK not doing any thing about it !". What can you do in the present circumstances. My humble suggestion, take up meditation. It will strengthen you and will enable you to withstand the vicissitudes of life. There is also Emotional Freedom Technique about which many people have asserted as an efficient method for emotional well being. www.emofree.com
                                          With love and regards
                                          vg


                                          From: mhworkout101 <mhworkout101@...>
                                          To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 2:05 AM
                                          Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...

                                           
                                          What has brought me to the group?

                                          I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

                                          Something is trying to break open through me.

                                          Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from my own experience.

                                          Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

                                          I thought I was on a good course.

                                          Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.

                                          One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

                                          At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...

                                          But how?

                                          Mary



                                        • Kiwanis
                                          Meditation is a wonderful suggestion. Sometimes, in order to meditate, we must learn to stop our over thinking . Are you familiar with Eckhart Tolle? He
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jun 8, 2013
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                                            Meditation is a wonderful suggestion. Sometimes, in order to meditate, we must learn to stop our 'over thinking'. Are you familiar with Eckhart Tolle? He explains about how our own thinking is  responsible for keeping us in dramas and how this can make meditation difficult. 
                                            Love, Noni

                                            On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            Dear Mary,
                                                                     Your experiences touched me. My humble prayers for your well being. "It is not a crime to be unhappy, but it is not OK not doing any thing about it !". What can you do in the present circumstances. My humble suggestion, take up meditation. It will strengthen you and will enable you to withstand the vicissitudes of life. There is also Emotional Freedom Technique about which many people have asserted as an efficient method for emotional well being. www.emofree.com
                                            With love and regards
                                            vg


                                            From: mhworkout101 <mhworkout101@...>
                                            To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 2:05 AM
                                            Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...

                                             
                                            What has brought me to the group?

                                            I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

                                            Something is trying to break open through me.

                                            Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from my own experience.

                                            Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

                                            I thought I was on a good course.

                                            Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.

                                            One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

                                            At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...

                                            But how?

                                            Mary



                                          • Venugopal AK
                                            Dear Noni,                     I have nodding acquaintance with Eckhart Tolle.  Actually he is presenting a westernized interpretation of the very
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jun 8, 2013
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                                              Dear Noni,
                                                                  I have nodding acquaintance with Eckhart Tolle.  Actually he is presenting a westernized interpretation of the very ancient spiritual tradition of Vedanta. If meditation is taken up under a Guru he will guide the disciple expertly to overcome all the hindrances. In India meditation is practiced in conjunction with Yoga postures and pranayama. The practice becomes much more powerful. The body-mind complex becomes enhanced this way.
                                              Regards
                                              vg


                                              From: Kiwanis <kiwanis@...>
                                              To: "nde@yahoogroups.com" <nde@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013 5:56 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...

                                               
                                              Meditation is a wonderful suggestion. Sometimes, in order to meditate, we must learn to stop our 'over thinking'. Are you familiar with Eckhart Tolle? He explains about how our own thinking is  responsible for keeping us in dramas and how this can make meditation difficult. 
                                              Love, Noni

                                              On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@...> wrote:

                                               
                                              Dear Mary,
                                                                       Your experiences touched me. My humble prayers for your well being. "It is not a crime to be unhappy, but it is not OK not doing any thing about it !". What can you do in the present circumstances. My humble suggestion, take up meditation. It will strengthen you and will enable you to withstand the vicissitudes of life. There is also Emotional Freedom Technique about which many people have asserted as an efficient method for emotional well being. www.emofree.com
                                              With love and regards
                                              vg


                                              From: mhworkout101 <mhworkout101@...>
                                              To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 2:05 AM
                                              Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...

                                               
                                              What has brought me to the group?

                                              I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.

                                              Something is trying to break open through me.

                                              Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from my own experience.

                                              Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.

                                              I thought I was on a good course.

                                              Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.

                                              One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.

                                              At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...

                                              But how?

                                              Mary





                                            • rdgiroux
                                              Dear Mary The following is the first paragraph of the Prologue of Sitting in the Lotus Blossom by Diane Goble, an exceptional NDE at the NDERF site. The book
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jun 8, 2013
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                                                Dear Mary

                                                The following is the first paragraph of the Prologue of Sitting in the Lotus Blossom by Diane Goble, an exceptional NDE at the NDERF site.

                                                The book is available at SMASHWORD.com

                                                 

                                                Did you ever feel that your life is just a struggle going nowhere? That's how

                                                most of my life had been... always doing things the hard way... fighting the

                                                establishment... shunning the status quo... breaking new ground... going where

                                                no woman has gone before. Just tell me I can't do something and I'll put all my

                                                energy into proving that I can! I believed life was a struggle and I was going in

                                                circles. Now I realize that it was only so because I believed it to be so. I used to

                                                think of myself as less than worthless, now I know I am a powerful spiritual

                                                being capable of changing the world... with the wisdom to know that everyone

                                                else is also. God really had to smack me upside the head a few times before I

                                                would let go of my attachment to struggling and just surrender to the flow.

                                                 

                                                II could not help but think about you and your call for guidance and your feeling of no worthiness. I did not read the book yet, just starting to read today. I think it might help.

                                                 

                                                Denis


                                                --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Kiwanis wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Meditation is a wonderful suggestion. Sometimes, in order to meditate, we must learn to stop our 'over thinking'. Are you familiar with Eckhart Tolle? He explains about how our own thinking is responsible for keeping us in dramas and how this can make meditation difficult.
                                                > Love, Noni
                                                >
                                                > On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:16 AM, Venugopal AK akvenugopal@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > Dear Mary,
                                                > > Your experiences touched me. My humble prayers for your well being. "It is not a crime to be unhappy, but it is not OK not doing any thing about it !". What can you do in the present circumstances. My humble suggestion, take up meditation. It will strengthen you and will enable you to withstand the vicissitudes of life. There is also Emotional Freedom Technique about which many people have asserted as an efficient method for emotional well being. www.emofree.com
                                                > > With love and regards
                                                > > vg
                                                > >
                                                > > From: mhworkout101 mhworkout101@...
                                                > > To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Sent: Friday, 31 May 2013 2:05 AM
                                                > > Subject: [nde] Re: Spirtiual Honesty...
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > What has brought me to the group?
                                                > >
                                                > > I can say that this journey for me started last fall. Through a series of thoughts (and fears of death) I was lead to NDEs and began to read about them extensively. I've read books, gone on numerous websites, and watched many videos on those who've experienced them. My mother had one as a young child sick with scarlett fever and she shared with me fairly recently. I have not actually experienced a NDE myself, though I found much comfort from the experiences I read about them. I have always been a spiritual person and believe strongly that there is a force much bigger that connects us all together. I am highly sensitive and very attuned to the energy around me, always. I've also had many "psychic" kind of experiences which I felt were a special gift; being highly intuituve. As a child who suffered much abuse, I some how managed to keep hope alive in my heart. I've always known that there was a purpose for me being here, yet I'm still trying to navigate to that point. I feel I came to the subject of NDE because I am wanting to really know what my true life work is. I want to strengthen my relationship to God and the universe and quite the voices inside of me that tell me I am not worth loving.
                                                > >
                                                > > Something is trying to break open through me.
                                                > >
                                                > > Lately it's been quite intense and I experience enormous frustration of what my soul's true purpose is. I don't feel complete inside that I'm doing quite that and I'm struggling to figure it out. At this point my life is not in any means bad; I have a beautiful 3yo daughter and we are well provided for through her father. We all live together and although I am not legally married to her father, our relationship mirrors a marriage for all practical purposes. I was a personal trainer and birthing doula for many years helping people to stay fit and supporting women during childbirth. Once I had my daughter my priorities shifted and I wanted to be with her. I am lucky enough to have the means and space to do that. I tried going back to work, but found that my heart was no longer into training. After having having a very difficult childbirth experience, I knew that being a birthing doula was no longer for me either. I shifted my focus to healing from my own experience.
                                                > >
                                                > > Since then I went back to school taking up mostly writing courses and rediscovered my love for writing. I dived deeply into poetry and have been writing it for almost a year. I also have a book I am in the very beginning stages of writing with a friend of our friendship and child birth experiences of our daughter.
                                                > >
                                                > > I thought I was on a good course.
                                                > >
                                                > > Unfortunately this winter proved to be rough for my family and we were sick a lot with my daughter getting hit hard from starting preschool. It took up all my resources and I found myself feeling very depressed. I wasn't seeing much of my friends, (my own family is hardly around in my life), I had no other outlet for myself; I felt so alone. My partner wasn't much help to life my spirits as he has never been very emotionally giving. Deep insecurities have risen in me again and I literally feel worthless. I feel terrible saying that, God would never want me to feel that way. I have a daughter who has the sweetest soul and shows me the most beautiful love. I know she is God's way of showing me how worthy I am of love. I feel deeply she came to me to give me that message. Why can't I take that in and get my act together?? I know the root of this stems from my past yet I keep falling back into this self-critical image of myself. I'm not good enough. It's terrible.
                                                > >
                                                > > One thing I do know is that I am here to help others and that gives me great joy inside. I thought to lend some of my time volunteering. I've always wanted to work with children battling cancer and have been looking into that intensively. Anything that I could do to help put a smile on their faces. Those children are very special. Recently I've learned that at least 4 of the children I've been reading about have pasted away. It breaks my heart.
                                                > >
                                                > > At any rate I feel so lost and confused. So here I am. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I just joined this group and feel very welcomed. I do have a very strong light force in me, I want to share it's beauty with the world. I have since I was a young child...
                                                > >
                                                > > But how?
                                                > >
                                                > > Mary
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
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