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Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

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  • Paul Harper
    Thanks but no thanks Helen.  I am rather a private person. Thanks again, Love, Paul ________________________________ From: helen hutton
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 31, 2009
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      Thanks but no thanks Helen.  I am rather a private person.
       
      Thanks again,
       
      Love,
      Paul


      From: helen hutton <starlight.294@...>
      To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:03:36 PM
      Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

      Dear Paul
      I will gladly send you one of my relaxation cds free of charge
      just let me know if you would like one and i will send it by snail mail(post)
      Hugs Helen
       


      To: nde@yahoogroups. com
      From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
      Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:21:37 -0700
      Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

      Dear Helen, I have thought abought it. 
       
      There's a man that has commercials on TV here in Phoenix that has many testimonials from people he has helped.  Anti anxiety being one.
      I have never called for an appoinment as I don't want him to make me dance like a chicken in his office,  Just kidding.  I will have to think more clearly about this.  I beleive it has merit.
       
      If dancing like a chicken makes me sleep better, then I am all for it and I'm sure my wife will get use to the routine each night before I jump or crawl into bed.
       
      I will look into it Helen.  Thank you.
       
      Love,
      Paul


      From: helen hutton <starlight.294@ hotmail.com>
      To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups. com>
      Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:52:35 PM
      Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

       
      Dear Paul,
      Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
      I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
      It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
      How is your heart now?
      I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety state so well
      Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
      I just never get around to treating myself,  oneday,oneday, lol,
      hugs Helen
       


      To: nde@yahoogroups. com
      From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
      Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:18:58 -0700
      Subject: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

       
      Paul H's NDE
       
      I was in the military for a little over 21 years.  17 Aug 1967 through 1 Oct 1988.  In the 1980s, military health care was not as great as it is today.  I had known that my aortic valve was deformed since grade school.  (6th or 7th grade)  The local small town doctor in a town 7 miles away only had Fluoroscope back then.  I never saw what you could see with his fluoroscope, as he was on the other side showing my mom things.  Probably not much.  I was told not to run and play and no high school sports.  I was crushed and in private would go out in the fields and run as far and as fast as I could.  My parents never knew.  I finally found a different doctor who signed my sports physical in a far off small town that allowed me to play football my junior and senior years of high school.  I literally begged that doctor to sign my release.
       
      When I joined the military a doctor told me me in 1968 that I would probably have to have that valve replaced in 15 years as it would continue to deteriorate and calcify.  I asked him how they could replace it and he said he wasn't sure as they hadn't figured that out yet, but they would in the coming 15 years.  I waited one year too many..
       
      I had been working with an old internal medicine guy that worked for the Army for many years.  He should have retired.  I kept complaining of not being able to breath or run.  I was worried of flunking the upcoming AF Aerobics testing as we had to run 1.5 miles in a short amount of time.  I told the doc I couldn't even run a block now.  He was trying to figure out a way to dismiss it and get me out of his office and he finally said, "Well what do you think it is?'  I told him it had been 16 years since I was told I would need a valve replacement in 15 years, and I thought that valve was calcifying and was not opening or closing correctly.  He said not to get the cart before the horse and to just monitor it for awhile longer.  About 5 months later I drove myself to the base hospital ER and found that instead of pneumonia as I thought I had, I was in full blown congestive heart failure.  My heart had enlarged to an alarming size and had become much weaker and ex rays proved my lungs were filling with liquid.  I was drowning, slowly.
       
      I was so bull headed, I drove my wife and I to the civilian hospital.  My poor wife was white as a sheet and cried on the way.  I was in congestive heart failure with a very enlarged heart.  I was admitted to a civilian hospital in Phoenix to remove as much liquid from my body as possible and was waiting for the military to give the go ahead for the civilian hospital to perform open heart surgery and replace a defective aortic valve that had calcified and would no longer close or open all the way.  They removed over 25 pounds of liquid or whatever from me.  At 140 pounds, I was skin and bones.  The civilian doctors were just waiting for word from the military to continue on and do the surgery needed.  All preliminary tests had been done and they knew exactly what I needed.  I had been there for 3 weeks,
       
      Instead, the Military said I was to be taken by ambulance 30 miles to my home Air Base and I waited, lying on a very short legged medical cot, that could be loaded on the military medical aircraft and not take up too much room.  I was laying on that 4 inch legged cot, directly on the cement of the flight line and my wife had to fight her way through the military guards to stand over me.  It took a doctor to tell the guards she was my wife and showed the sky cops the same ticket she showed them, with her Id and the medical records she was holding that she was my wife and she would be taking the medical flight with me to Texas..  I could tell she was already near tears.  We watched the plane land and they loaded me in the back along the right wall of the fuselage and my wife sat up front in passenger seats.
       
      Then we got to the Texas air base of Brooks and they had a bunch of unqualified airmen transferring the patients from the medical plane and strapped the short legged cots onto a medical bus this time.  My wife also said she got to ride in the front of the bus with the patients in the back.  She said she was in full tears as she watched how roughly they were handling the cots and how they laughed when the cots banged into a part of the bus or another cot.  This was after a very long flight and stops to pick up other patients along the way.  I had to really keep my concentration strong, as several times I was fading out.
       
      Then the bus drove us, I am not sure how many miles, but it was fairly close, to Lackland AFB, and to their giant medical hospital - Wilford Hall.  This was an 8 story hospital completely ran by the Air Force and the Air National guard units came all the time to get their two weeks, or weekend training.  It was a good training facility, but the patients suffered from the treatment received from the not fully qualified Air National Guard and Air Reserves.
       
      My wife became more agitated when the doctors at this hospital refused all the test results that the civilians had preformed, and that the civilian docs expressed their opinion of my dangerously weakened condition - I should not walk farther than a few feet and maybe have some one accompany me in case I fell.  The first few days they re-accomplished all the tests for open heart surgery.  My wife was steaming and I kept trying to get her to stay calm, because these military folks had their own way of running a hospital, and that was ineptly.
       
      Finally not long before the surgery, I repeated the Angiogram test where they put a small catheter into my artery and ran it through my heart and emitted die that they could measure where the die went and how strong the heart was pumping and they checked each valve in this manner.  After the initial test I was asked if I would partake in an extra test for research.  I was laughing along with the rest of them as the patient is awake during this test and could watch the constant x-ray machines (fluoroscope included )monitor that allows them to watch where the catheter is going and watch what the die is doing.  They said I just had to ride an upside down bicycle that was attached to the bed.
       
      The doctors and I both should have known better as my heart was so enlarged and weak, It would not take riding an upside down bicycle.  But I said yes and all the people in the room were very excited..  When they placed a small bicycle above me that was attached to the bed, it finally dawned on me why they inserted the catheter into my inner elbow instead of my groin, which is the normal procedure.  Normal - I say because I have had 4 of them in my life and only one went through my elbow.
       
      When all was reset, I was told to peddle as hard as needed to get the RPM Gage up into the red zone.  I was having fun and said, "Sure".  I remember just hitting the red zone and my heart stopped.  Every thing went dark, but then immediately it turned in to a vast place with no dimensions, time of sound.  I was alone in this place, or I thought I was at the time. 
       
      I could still see and looked in all directions, even under myself and saw only light Grey.  As years have past since that 1984 date, I remember there may have been clouds, but not like normal clouds, they were a solid wall of tight knit clouds that surrounded me.  They were neither near or far, as I had no perception of time, distance or space.  I just enjoyed the most wonderful peace and unconditional love.  I think unconditional love doesn't do it justice, but I can't think of better words unless maybe, "Awe Inspiring".  I thought everything was normal as I didn't remember my earthly life or ever having a body or ego.  I was like a baby wrapped in love. But the love was so intense, I did wonder a little about it I think.  It felt new.  Like a rebirth.
       
      It seemed I was there for some time, but time really didn't exist there, but I never thought of "Time" as I did on earth as it would have been useless I guess, or it just wasn't an existing thing there.  There was no sound which I really loved.  It was like being in a sound proof chamber, but without walls.  I remember I could see.  I could look in all directions.  I remember looking under me and over me and I saw nothing but light Grey.  It never dawned on me that when I looked under me, I was missing my earthly body.  I remembered nothing of my earthly self.  Or even that I had ever existed before now.  I saw no earthly things such as waterfalls, fields of grass, mountains or streams of water, or big brightly colored butterflies.  I saw none of that and that may be why I stayed silent for so long.  My story could not come close to what Dannion Brinkley and others on this group described.  However the intense love and peace did match.  I always thought that was the most important part.
       
      My heart was stopped for only 20 minutes and then I came back, maybe I would have seen more if I had been there longer.  I don't know.
       
      No one came to me or even telepathy told me it was time to go back.  I was in,"Heaven", not knowing what else to call it, I didn't try to label it while I was there.  I was simply there in a wondrous place.  I remembered nothing of an earthly life and would never have returned if given the choice.  I didn't understand what going back meant.  The following is part of the story I don't think  I have told because, although was always part of my NDE memories, they just didn't make sense to me until recently.
       
      (Laugh if you must, but this is what I finally determined was my trip back to my body.) 
       
      I was in ecstasy just existing in the love and peace.  There was nothing really for my eyes (or sight) to be drawn to.  Then finally I heard a noise over my left rear.  I turned that way and something a bit lower than me (some could say a floor to where I was, I thought of it as being behind me and slightly lower than my straight on vision.)  The slight noise may have been a faint noise from the medical room my earthly body was.  But I would never have made that conclusion then.  At my non existing 'floor'  I saw something I thought I had never seen before.  Something very odd that was moving in place.  I later learned in my earthly mind that I was seeing like a chalk mark outline of a human body.  But the outline was moving.  It even became upright and began to shimmer and still moved in place like a shimmering cartoon character.  It moved in waves, it couldn't be still.  I thought later that the moving in place was to draw my attention.  When I finally fixed my vision on it, I was drawn closer and closer to it.  I had no fear, just a new curiosity.  As in, what the heck is this?  I was not moving, but something was moving me.  I never thought of it as a spirit, and still do not.  Maybe the shimmering of light should have given me a clue, but it didn't and I still don't know what to call it except a standing up straight shimmering and moving in place outline thing.  At that time I thought of it as a marker of some kind.
       
      After it or something drew me very close to it, we seemed to have merged together and both were sucked down a very clear tubing.  I could see the outline from very close up as we went down the clear tubing together.  I told you it was weird.
       
      The next thing I knew, I was in a worldly room that turned out to be my Angiogram room with my body still there.  I never actually saw my body on the table.  I was up a little and behind a very dusty set of electronic equipment.  My only thoughts were, 'Where am I now and who is going to clean off that dust."  I knew it was dusty electronic equipment, but I knew little else.  I heard the ruckus from the other side of the equipment, but each time I rose above the equipment, the blaring noise and the unbelievable bright lights made me hide gain.  It was painful to experience.  (I still have difficulty with loud noises and bright lights.)  I had no idea where I was and still no clear thoughts of an earthly place, so I thought I was reborn again in a different world.  This one was not pleasant at all.
       
      Seems I hid behind that equipment for some time and then the paddles must have been used on my body again and I was in my body and in such unbelievable pain, I remembered where I was and was so sorry for myself, but then determined to stay alive.
       
      They brought me back with chemicals and liberal use of the electric paddles.  When I came back to life I thought maybe I had died and gone to hell, which I didn't, and do not believe in hell anymore.  Nor was I afraid of death.  I remember there were several nurses trying to get me to relax (my back was maybe 6 inches off the table after the last paddle blast) and they were pumping a type of sedative in me to get me to lay back down.  I also noticed a very needle large sticking out of my chest with no one holding it.  It was planted deep, to the hilt of the syringe.  There was another large syringe coming out of my neck.  I figure the one  in my chest was in my heart and the one in my neck was in the carotid arteries to my brain to prevent stroke.
       
      I tried relaxing and did finally lay back down but then I started to dim out several times. I focused on one small screw that was on the light above my table and I concentrated on that single screw very intensely.  When I would start to dim out, I would concentrate even harder until everything came back into focus.  I know someone in some group said they wouldn't have fought so hard to live again and would gladly have gone back to that wonderful place with all the love.  However for me it felt as though it was my duty to stay alive.  I didn't realize at the time what for, but I was challenged to stay alive somehow.  So I fought hard.
       
      One nurse was beside me like a Chatty Cathy doll and was telling me that she kept me breathing or at least forcing air into my lungs with a portable respirator.  I told her thank you and asked her how long I was out.  She told me 20 minutes, but then one of the new doctors who wasn't there before I was gone cursed her and told her to get the hell out.  She left in tears and everyone else except the screaming doctor were very quiet.  I would have thrown something at him if I had had the strength and an object to throw.
       
      I was back in my body and my ego had taken over again.  It did not want to die.  My ego started to think of my family and thought I had to stay alive for them.  So I fought and I guess you could call me, "The Winner".  But that was just the start of some terrible times afterwords.  I started hallucinating about 2 to 3 weeks after the operation.  I had been off pain drugs for some time and the docs insisted that I keep taking Tylenol 3 just to calm the pain some..  The hallucinations were when I was truly awake and walking down the halls of the hospital, even down to the main entrance where doctors and visitors arrived.
       
      When I first saw a crowd in the hall, all looked normal, but within a couple seconds, a third of the group would change into what I expected new corpses would look like.  All the skin on their faces, hands and even their arms and legs when wearing shorts changed.  All exposed skin turned very white and their were patches of no skin and freshly dead muscle or whatever was exposed.  I don't think I ever saw a medical person turn into such a walking dead person.  But the others scared me so bad I tried to continue my walks with my eyes looking straight at every ones feet.  None of these newly dead ever turned to look at me, thank God.  I didn't tell any of my physicians about the hallucinations as I was afraid I would be moved up to the top floor which was the mental ward.
       
      I was moved off the cardiac floor before these hallucinations started.  I finally stayed in my ward and my bed during the night, but everyday after the docs made their early rounds, I would shower and put on as much hospital garb that I could, even those little slipper socks and real slippers and a hospital robe over hospital pajama bottoms and tops.  In my state of mind that made me look like a civilian and I could go anywhere I wanted and the hospital staff would think I was a civilian visitor.  A weird state of mind.
       
      After rounds I would eat whatever breakfast they brought and then plan my escape from the hospital.  Back then they still had outside smoking areas.  I checked them all out, I could not stand the stink of the smoke, but I was just looking for the best escape route out of the hospital without getting caught..  I figured out later that they were all the same as no one from the hospital cared or looked in on you after you left the cardiac floor, and being up on a regular open ward with maniacs running wild.
       
      But my mind was very busy and finally I found the perfect escape route and followed it as it was on a back corner of the hospital and led back into grassy fields and lines of very large oak trees.  It was so peaceful out there that I would spend every day out there after rounds and either daydream or just sit with my back against one of those giant trees and be as calm as I could.  No one could see me from the other side as the trees that were so large around that it hide my body fine.  And because the patients were not allowed back there, no one ever bothered me.  I stayed another 3 weeks for some reason and the only time my peace was intruded upon was by a medical person walking by on his way to the hospital.  He asked If my Doctor knew I was out this far from the hospital.  I lied and told him it was my doctors idea so I could rest and rediscover my mind.  I had no idea where those words came from, but it was good enough for the medical intruder.
       
      Many more things happened during that 6 week stay in Texas and 9 weeks total of hospital stay.  I only got to go home after signing my self out.  I started wondering if that is what the doctors were waiting for.  They brought out many types of releases, releasing all medical care and medical doctors for anything that happened while I was in the hospital.
       
      I have heard of others who went into deep depression after an NDE, and I think I did too and finally came to grips about it last year or the year before.  I was becoming more and more paranoid and frightened because I had no means of protecting myself or my family.  I was very weak of body, but fought back hard enough to pass the AF aerobic test and remained on active duty. 
       
      I told my wife I was buying a gun for self defense....  That scared her and my grown kids silly and I was forbidden to buy a gun.  I wasn't use to being told what to do and started shopping on the Internet.  My wife must have always been watching as she set up an appointment for me with a shrink and later with a therapist.
       
      The first thing she told the shrink was that I needed better treatment for depression and anxiety, and "he wants to buy a gun."  The shrink didn't cotton much to that idea.  He spent an hour with me and said I had Post Traumatic Stress (PTSD).  I knew that no one in Arizona could legally buy a gun if they had ever been diagnosed with PTSD unless they lied on their registration of the weapon and the state didn't catch my lie through investigation.
       
      So I honored my families wishes and followed the shrinks advise and was set up with a therapist who specialized in PTSD.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me other than the afterlife.  My nightmares and flashbacks of hallucinations have stopped for now.  I still saw the therapists for many months and the MD shrink still manages my meds.  I still had night mares from time to time, but that is probably fairly normal.  The dreams usually ended when I had two scalpels and was to fight a whole village of men in Thailand I guess.  The villagers had three scalpels a piece and I had only two.  One for each hand.  I watched the right hands of the villagers too much as they had the two knives in their right hands and their left hand with only one knife would cut me deeply.  I always made it to the last villager where I lay on the ground bleeding out and dying.  I could still feel the awful pain of the knives still sticking into my shoulders.  When I became fully awake I realized I had charlie horses in my shoulders around the back of my neck.  Stress from my sleep the Shrink said.  It just resembled the pain knives would make if they were in the back shoulders.  I always bed out to death.  So I guess that dying in your dreams does not really mean you will dye then, as some have suggested.
       
      My shrink and therapist spent many hours with me convincing me I was not really in unfair knife fights each night and I have drifted  toward normalcy.  The last time I was in I was asked by the therapist how the knife fights were going.  I told her I improved greatly, as I still have the knife fights, but I kill the rest of them and I am fine at the end, as I no longer die at the end..  She wrote on her pad that that was an improvement, but I had a ways to go.  I haven't been back since, but my file is still open if I really need to go talk to her.  All knife fight dreams have passed now.  I sleep in peace.
       
      Love,
      Paul





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    • Paul Harper
      Dear Group, Does this group believe in daily affirmations?  My wife had them around all over the house once and they were for her. I had no opinion of them
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 31, 2009
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        Dear Group,
         
        Does this group believe in daily affirmations?  My wife had them around all over the house once and they were for her.
         
        I had no opinion of them then or now.  I just didn't think it was for me..  And I don't watch Oprah either.
         
        Love,
        Paul


        From: Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@...>
        To: nde@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:37:33 PM
        Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

        Dear Judy,
                                Greetings. I had read about Emile Cue at a very young age and had followed his address of telling myself before sleep, ten times "Day by day in every way, I am getting better and better". I feel this has helped me in every way. You can read more here :
        http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ %C3%89mile_ Cou%C3%A9
        With love and regards
        VG


        --- On Wed, 1/4/09, judyw <judyw1941@bellsouth .net> wrote:

        From: judyw <judyw1941@bellsouth .net>
        Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards
        To: nde@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 4:18 AM

        Helen, this is not to disagree with you as I am certain you are highly
        skilled. I just want to talk about my own personal experience. Through
        the years I tried hypnosis with four different well trained therapist to
        quit smoking and it was a waste of my money. Seems like even years ago
        it was a little over a hundred each visit.

        I think hypnosis is fascinating. I cannot say I understand all the
        dynamics but I do know it works to the extent that you can usually get a
        person to do about anything during that one session. I am not at all
        sure there is a carry over in life. Many are of the opinion that it is
        short lived, the desired effects do not last.

        Perhaps your experience has been different.

        Judy
        ------------ -----
        Dear Paul,
        Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
        I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
        It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life
        experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
        How is your heart now?
        I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety
        state so well
        Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat
        clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
        I just never get around to treating myself, oneday,oneday,

        lol,
        hugs Helen



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      • helen hutton
        DEar JUDY In my opinion ,if the hypnotherapist Did NOt hElp you then he should have offered your money back. Go to A hypnotherapist who gives you a money back
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
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           DEar JUDY
          In my opinion ,if the hypnotherapist Did NOt hElp you then he should have offered your money back. Go to A hypnotherapist who gives you a money back guarantee.
          Smoking is used as a safety net for stress but quite the opposite is true.
          A lot of people think that they need cigarettes in order to cope with stress or nerves. However, nicotine is a stimulant; it makes your heart beat faster and raises your blood pressure, so in fact, smoking does not really relax you at all or help you cope with unpleasant situations.




          Some manage to quit, probably after many unsuccessful attempts, whilst others will smoke for the rest of their lives, however long or short that may be.

          It is a fact however, that over 50% of smokers wish that they didn't smoke and that they could give up tomorrow.

          Therefore, it should be apparent that most people smoke because they are addicted to nicotine. For them, not to smoke would need an immense amount of willpower, a huge amount of support from family and friends and for some, expert medical advice and help.
          Smokers habits have to  be broken , before one can deal with the actual addiction factor.
          As for false memory,yes,very true but a normal psychiatrist can cause false memory as well ,just, by allowing the patient to run with his/her thoughts.
          . My primary rule is that I will not take a person back to a childhood past to find out if they were abused,that is not my job. If it happens whilst under induction I will use my ability to help my client in everyway i have been taught .I am here to help people with stress ,I will however take someone back to their past lives,So far, i have had no problem,but if i did, i have been professionally taught how to deal with that problem,the same as childhood abuse,And i would deal with that problem in a very therapeutic manner,
          I have witnessed some real magic through deep hypnosis, and have a wonderful trust in the ability to help someone heal their pain.
          .,First a therapist must want to help the client get well,Not just be in it for the money,secondly they should influence the client with only positive affirmations ,and thirdly trust that they will accept the healing with a knowledge,they they are in full control at all times,
          I also use neuro linquistic programming and thought field therapy plus tfh,all great weapons to help one heal
          And it is much better then popping a pill,lol
          thanks for your thoughts judy
          and have a wonderful day
           Helen

           

          To: nde@yahoogroups.com
          From: judyw1941@...
          Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:01:22 -0400
          Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

          Helen, I can tell you that they did use the suggestion of making smoking
          obnoxious to the smoker. I don't recall the exact one that was used,
          but I think it may have been something to do with trash on a movie
          theater floor. I went to one guy twice and would have gone a third time
          still hoping that it would work but he told me that if it had not worked
          at all I would be wasting my money for a third try. These were not
          people who were dabbling, but formally trained. I know one of them was
          using neuro linguishtics programing which is a therapeutic technique.

          I am sure you have read some of the books about false memories in past
          life regression. I agree with you it is an interesting area.

          Judy
          ------------ ------




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        • Linda ^i^ Stewart
          Nothing wrong with affirmations. It s a positive mind set, often with well known cliches that are cliches for a reason. Better than habituating a negative
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
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            Nothing wrong with affirmations.  It's a positive mind set, often with well known cliches that are cliches for a reason.  Better than habituating a negative mind set.
                Oprah is a courageous, heroic person.
            With love,
            Linda
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:59 AM
            Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

            Dear Group,
             
            Does this group believe in daily affirmations?  My wife had them around all over the house once and they were for her.
             
            I had no opinion of them then or now.  I just didn't think it was for me..  And I don't watch Oprah either.
             
            Love,
            Paul


            From: Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@ yahoo.com>
            To: nde@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:37:33 PM
            Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

            Dear Judy,
                                    Greetings. I had read about Emile Cue at a very young age and had followed his address of telling myself before sleep, ten times "Day by day in every way, I am getting better and better". I feel this has helped me in every way. You can read more here :
            http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ %C3%89mile_ Cou%C3%A9
            With love and regards
            VG


            --- On Wed, 1/4/09, judyw <judyw1941@bellsouth .net> wrote:

            From: judyw <judyw1941@bellsouth .net>
            Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards
            To: nde@yahoogroups. com
            Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 4:18 AM

            Helen, this is not to disagree with you as I am certain you are highly
            skilled. I just want to talk about my own personal experience. Through
            the years I tried hypnosis with four different well trained therapist to
            quit smoking and it was a waste of my money. Seems like even years ago
            it was a little over a hundred each visit.

            I think hypnosis is fascinating. I cannot say I understand all the
            dynamics but I do know it works to the extent that you can usually get a
            person to do about anything during that one session. I am not at all
            sure there is a carry over in life. Many are of the opinion that it is
            short lived, the desired effects do not last.

            Perhaps your experience has been different.

            Judy
            ------------ -----
            Dear Paul,
            Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
            I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
            It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life
            experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
            How is your heart now?
            I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety
            state so well
            Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat
            clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
            I just never get around to treating myself, oneday,oneday,

            lol,
            hugs Helen



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          • Linda ^i^ Stewart
            You have a generous heart, Helen, and I know you spend a lot of your time trying to help others. With love, Linda ... From: helen hutton To: nde site Sent:
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              You have a generous heart, Helen, and I know you spend a lot of your time trying to help others.
              With love,
              Linda
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:03 PM
              Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

              Dear Paul
              I will gladly send you one of my relaxation cds free of charge
              just let me know if you would like one and i will send it by snail mail(post)
              Hugs Helen
               


              To: nde@yahoogroups. com
              From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
              Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:21:37 -0700
              Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

              Dear Helen, I have thought abought it. 
               
              There's a man that has commercials on TV here in Phoenix that has many testimonials from people he has helped.  Anti anxiety being one.
              I have never called for an appoinment as I don't want him to make me dance like a chicken in his office,  Just kidding.  I will have to think more clearly about this.  I beleive it has merit.
               
              If dancing like a chicken makes me sleep better, then I am all for it and I'm sure my wife will get use to the routine each night before I jump or crawl into bed.
               
              I will look into it Helen.  Thank you.
               
              Love,
              Paul


              From: helen hutton <starlight.294@ hotmail.com>
              To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups. com>
              Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:52:35 PM
              Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards


              Dear Paul,
              Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
              I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
              It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
              How is your heart now?
              I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety state so well
              Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
              I just never get around to treating myself,  oneday,oneday, lol,
              hugs Helen
               


              To: nde@yahoogroups. com
              From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
              Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:18:58 -0700
              Subject: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

               
              Paul H's NDE
               
              I was in the military for a little over 21 years.  17 Aug 1967 through 1 Oct 1988.  In the 1980s, military health care was not as great as it is today.  I had known that my aortic valve was deformed since grade school.  (6th or 7th grade)  The local small town doctor in a town 7 miles away only had Fluoroscope back then.  I never saw what you could see with his fluoroscope, as he was on the other side showing my mom things.  Probably not much.  I was told not to run and play and no high school sports.  I was crushed and in private would go out in the fields and run as far and as fast as I could.  My parents never knew.  I finally found a different doctor who signed my sports physical in a far off small town that allowed me to play football my junior and senior years of high school.  I literally begged that doctor to sign my release.
               
              When I joined the military a doctor told me me in 1968 that I would probably have to have that valve replaced in 15 years as it would continue to deteriorate and calcify.  I asked him how they could replace it and he said he wasn't sure as they hadn't figured that out yet, but they would in the coming 15 years.  I waited one year too many.
               
              I had been working with an old internal medicine guy that worked for the Army for many years.  He should have retired.  I kept complaining of not being able to breath or run.  I was worried of flunking the upcoming AF Aerobics testing as we had to run 1.5 miles in a short amount of time.  I told the doc I couldn't even run a block now.  He was trying to figure out a way to dismiss it and get me out of his office and he finally said, "Well what do you think it is?'  I told him it had been 16 years since I was told I would need a valve replacement in 15 years, and I thought that valve was calcifying and was not opening or closing correctly.  He said not to get the cart before the horse and to just monitor it for awhile longer.  About 5 months later I drove myself to the base hospital ER and found that instead of pneumonia as I thought I had, I was in full blown congestive heart failure.  My heart had enlarged to an alarming size and had become much weaker and ex rays proved my lungs were filling with liquid.  I was drowning, slowly.
               
              I was so bull headed, I drove my wife and I to the civilian hospital.  My poor wife was white as a sheet and cried on the way.  I was in congestive heart failure with a very enlarged heart.  I was admitted to a civilian hospital in Phoenix to remove as much liquid from my body as possible and was waiting for the military to give the go ahead for the civilian hospital to perform open heart surgery and replace a defective aortic valve that had calcified and would no longer close or open all the way.  They removed over 25 pounds of liquid or whatever from me.  At 140 pounds, I was skin and bones.  The civilian doctors were just waiting for word from the military to continue on and do the surgery needed.  All preliminary tests had been done and they knew exactly what I needed.  I had been there for 3 weeks,
               
              Instead, the Military said I was to be taken by ambulance 30 miles to my home Air Base and I waited, lying on a very short legged medical cot, that could be loaded on the military medical aircraft and not take up too much room.  I was laying on that 4 inch legged cot, directly on the cement of the flight line and my wife had to fight her way through the military guards to stand over me.  It took a doctor to tell the guards she was my wife and showed the sky cops the same ticket she showed them, with her Id and the medical records she was holding that she was my wife and she would be taking the medical flight with me to Texas.  I could tell she was already near tears.  We watched the plane land and they loaded me in the back along the right wall of the fuselage and my wife sat up front in passenger seats.
               
              Then we got to the Texas air base of Brooks and they had a bunch of unqualified airmen transferring the patients from the medical plane and strapped the short legged cots onto a medical bus this time.  My wife also said she got to ride in the front of the bus with the patients in the back.  She said she was in full tears as she watched how roughly they were handling the cots and how they laughed when the cots banged into a part of the bus or another cot.  This was after a very long flight and stops to pick up other patients along the way.  I had to really keep my concentration strong, as several times I was fading out.
               
              Then the bus drove us, I am not sure how many miles, but it was fairly close, to Lackland AFB, and to their giant medical hospital - Wilford Hall.  This was an 8 story hospital completely ran by the Air Force and the Air National guard units came all the time to get their two weeks, or weekend training.  It was a good training facility, but the patients suffered from the treatment received from the not fully qualified Air National Guard and Air Reserves.
               
              My wife became more agitated when the doctors at this hospital refused all the test results that the civilians had preformed, and that the civilian docs expressed their opinion of my dangerously weakened condition - I should not walk farther than a few feet and maybe have some one accompany me in case I fell.  The first few days they re-accomplished all the tests for open heart surgery.  My wife was steaming and I kept trying to get her to stay calm, because these military folks had their own way of running a hospital, and that was ineptly.
               
              Finally not long before the surgery, I repeated the Angiogram test where they put a small catheter into my artery and ran it through my heart and emitted die that they could measure where the die went and how strong the heart was pumping and they checked each valve in this manner.  After the initial test I was asked if I would partake in an extra test for research.  I was laughing along with the rest of them as the patient is awake during this test and could watch the constant x-ray machines (fluoroscope included )monitor that allows them to watch where the catheter is going and watch what the die is doing.  They said I just had to ride an upside down bicycle that was attached to the bed.
               
              The doctors and I both should have known better as my heart was so enlarged and weak, It would not take riding an upside down bicycle.  But I said yes and all the people in the room were very excited..  When they placed a small bicycle above me that was attached to the bed, it finally dawned on me why they inserted the catheter into my inner elbow instead of my groin, which is the normal procedure.  Normal - I say because I have had 4 of them in my life and only one went through my elbow.
               
              When all was reset, I was told to peddle as hard as needed to get the RPM Gage up into the red zone.  I was having fun and said, "Sure".  I remember just hitting the red zone and my heart stopped.  Every thing went dark, but then immediately it turned in to a vast place with no dimensions, time of sound.  I was alone in this place, or I thought I was at the time. 
               
              I could still see and looked in all directions, even under myself and saw only light Grey.  As years have past since that 1984 date, I remember there may have been clouds, but not like normal clouds, they were a solid wall of tight knit clouds that surrounded me.  They were neither near or far, as I had no perception of time, distance or space.  I just enjoyed the most wonderful peace and unconditional love.  I think unconditional love doesn't do it justice, but I can't think of better words unless maybe, "Awe Inspiring".  I thought everything was normal as I didn't remember my earthly life or ever having a body or ego.  I was like a baby wrapped in love. But the love was so intense, I did wonder a little about it I think.  It felt new.  Like a rebirth.
               
              It seemed I was there for some time, but time really didn't exist there, but I never thought of "Time" as I did on earth as it would have been useless I guess, or it just wasn't an existing thing there.  There was no sound which I really loved.  It was like being in a sound proof chamber, but without walls.  I remember I could see.  I could look in all directions.  I remember looking under me and over me and I saw nothing but light Grey.  It never dawned on me that when I looked under me, I was missing my earthly body.  I remembered nothing of my earthly self.  Or even that I had ever existed before now.  I saw no earthly things such as waterfalls, fields of grass, mountains or streams of water, or big brightly colored butterflies.  I saw none of that and that may be why I stayed silent for so long.  My story could not come close to what Dannion Brinkley and others on this group described.  However the intense love and peace did match.  I always thought that was the most important part.
               
              My heart was stopped for only 20 minutes and then I came back, maybe I would have seen more if I had been there longer.  I don't know.
               
              No one came to me or even telepathy told me it was time to go back.  I was in,"Heaven", not knowing what else to call it, I didn't try to label it while I was there.  I was simply there in a wondrous place.  I remembered nothing of an earthly life and would never have returned if given the choice.  I didn't understand what going back meant.  The following is part of the story I don't think  I have told because, although was always part of my NDE memories, they just didn't make sense to me until recently.
               
              (Laugh if you must, but this is what I finally determined was my trip back to my body.) 
               
              I was in ecstasy just existing in the love and peace.  There was nothing really for my eyes (or sight) to be drawn to.  Then finally I heard a noise over my left rear.  I turned that way and something a bit lower than me (some could say a floor to where I was, I thought of it as being behind me and slightly lower than my straight on vision.)  The slight noise may have been a faint noise from the medical room my earthly body was.  But I would never have made that conclusion then.  At my non existing 'floor'  I saw something I thought I had never seen before.  Something very odd that was moving in place.  I later learned in my earthly mind that I was seeing like a chalk mark outline of a human body.  But the outline was moving.  It even became upright and began to shimmer and still moved in place like a shimmering cartoon character.  It moved in waves, it couldn't be still.  I thought later that the moving in place was to draw my attention.  When I finally fixed my vision on it, I was drawn closer and closer to it.  I had no fear, just a new curiosity.  As in, what the heck is this?  I was not moving, but something was moving me.  I never thought of it as a spirit, and still do not.  Maybe the shimmering of light should have given me a clue, but it didn't and I still don't know what to call it except a standing up straight shimmering and moving in place outline thing.  At that time I thought of it as a marker of some kind.
               
              After it or something drew me very close to it, we seemed to have merged together and both were sucked down a very clear tubing.  I could see the outline from very close up as we went down the clear tubing together.  I told you it was weird.
               
              The next thing I knew, I was in a worldly room that turned out to be my Angiogram room with my body still there.  I never actually saw my body on the table.  I was up a little and behind a very dusty set of electronic equipment.  My only thoughts were, 'Where am I now and who is going to clean off that dust."  I knew it was dusty electronic equipment, but I knew little else.  I heard the ruckus from the other side of the equipment, but each time I rose above the equipment, the blaring noise and the unbelievable bright lights made me hide gain.  It was painful to experience.  (I still have difficulty with loud noises and bright lights.)  I had no idea where I was and still no clear thoughts of an earthly place, so I thought I was reborn again in a different world.  This one was not pleasant at all.
               
              Seems I hid behind that equipment for some time and then the paddles must have been used on my body again and I was in my body and in such unbelievable pain, I remembered where I was and was so sorry for myself, but then determined to stay alive.
               
              They brought me back with chemicals and liberal use of the electric paddles.  When I came back to life I thought maybe I had died and gone to hell, which I didn't, and do not believe in hell anymore.  Nor was I afraid of death.  I remember there were several nurses trying to get me to relax (my back was maybe 6 inches off the table after the last paddle blast) and they were pumping a type of sedative in me to get me to lay back down.  I also noticed a very needle large sticking out of my chest with no one holding it.  It was planted deep, to the hilt of the syringe.  There was another large syringe coming out of my neck.  I figure the one  in my chest was in my heart and the one in my neck was in the carotid arteries to my brain to prevent stroke.
               
              I tried relaxing and did finally lay back down but then I started to dim out several times. I focused on one small screw that was on the light above my table and I concentrated on that single screw very intensely.  When I would start to dim out, I would concentrate even harder until everything came back into focus.  I know someone in some group said they wouldn't have fought so hard to live again and would gladly have gone back to that wonderful place with all the love.  However for me it felt as though it was my duty to stay alive.  I didn't realize at the time what for, but I was challenged to stay alive somehow.  So I fought hard.
               
              One nurse was beside me like a Chatty Cathy doll and was telling me that she kept me breathing or at least forcing air into my lungs with a portable respirator.  I told her thank you and asked her how long I was out.  She told me 20 minutes, but then one of the new doctors who wasn't there before I was gone cursed her and told her to get the hell out.  She left in tears and everyone else except the screaming doctor were very quiet.  I would have thrown something at him if I had had the strength and an object to throw.
               
              I was back in my body and my ego had taken over again.  It did not want to die.  My ego started to think of my family and thought I had to stay alive for them.  So I fought and I guess you could call me, "The Winner".  But that was just the start of some terrible times afterwords.  I started hallucinating about 2 to 3 weeks after the operation.  I had been off pain drugs for some time and the docs insisted that I keep taking Tylenol 3 just to calm the pain some..  The hallucinations were when I was truly awake and walking down the halls of the hospital, even down to the main entrance where doctors and visitors arrived.
               
              When I first saw a crowd in the hall, all looked normal, but within a couple seconds, a third of the group would change into what I expected new corpses would look like.  All the skin on their faces, hands and even their arms and legs when wearing shorts changed.  All exposed skin turned very white and their were patches of no skin and freshly dead muscle or whatever was exposed.  I don't think I ever saw a medical person turn into such a walking dead person.  But the others scared me so bad I tried to continue my walks with my eyes looking straight at every ones feet.  None of these newly dead ever turned to look at me, thank God.  I didn't tell any of my physicians about the hallucinations as I was afraid I would be moved up to the top floor which was the mental ward.
               
              I was moved off the cardiac floor before these hallucinations started.  I finally stayed in my ward and my bed during the night, but everyday after the docs made their early rounds, I would shower and put on as much hospital garb that I could, even those little slipper socks and real slippers and a hospital robe over hospital pajama bottoms and tops.  In my state of mind that made me look like a civilian and I could go anywhere I wanted and the hospital staff would think I was a civilian visitor.  A weird state of mind.
               
              After rounds I would eat whatever breakfast they brought and then plan my escape from the hospital.  Back then they still had outside smoking areas.  I checked them all out, I could not stand the stink of the smoke, but I was just looking for the best escape route out of the hospital without getting caught..  I figured out later that they were all the same as no one from the hospital cared or looked in on you after you left the cardiac floor, and being up on a regular open ward with maniacs running wild.
               
              But my mind was very busy and finally I found the perfect escape route and followed it as it was on a back corner of the hospital and led back into grassy fields and lines of very large oak trees.  It was so peaceful out there that I would spend every day out there after rounds and either daydream or just sit with my back against one of those giant trees and be as calm as I could.  No one could see me from the other side as the trees that were so large around that it hide my body fine.  And because the patients were not allowed back there, no one ever bothered me.  I stayed another 3 weeks for some reason and the only time my peace was intruded upon was by a medical person walking by on his way to the hospital.  He asked If my Doctor knew I was out this far from the hospital.  I lied and told him it was my doctors idea so I could rest and rediscover my mind.  I had no idea where those words came from, but it was good enough for the medical intruder.
               
              Many more things happened during that 6 week stay in Texas and 9 weeks total of hospital stay.  I only got to go home after signing my self out.  I started wondering if that is what the doctors were waiting for.  They brought out many types of releases, releasing all medical care and medical doctors for anything that happened while I was in the hospital.
               
              I have heard of others who went into deep depression after an NDE, and I think I did too and finally came to grips about it last year or the year before.  I was becoming more and more paranoid and frightened because I had no means of protecting myself or my family.  I was very weak of body, but fought back hard enough to pass the AF aerobic test and remained on active duty. 
               
              I told my wife I was buying a gun for self defense...  That scared her and my grown kids silly and I was forbidden to buy a gun.  I wasn't use to being told what to do and started shopping on the Internet.  My wife must have always been watching as she set up an appointment for me with a shrink and later with a therapist.
               
              The first thing she told the shrink was that I needed better treatment for depression and anxiety, and "he wants to buy a gun."  The shrink didn't cotton much to that idea.  He spent an hour with me and said I had Post Traumatic Stress (PTSD).  I knew that no one in Arizona could legally buy a gun if they had ever been diagnosed with PTSD unless they lied on their registration of the weapon and the state didn't catch my lie through investigation.
               
              So I honored my families wishes and followed the shrinks advise and was set up with a therapist who specialized in PTSD.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me other than the afterlife.  My nightmares and flashbacks of hallucinations have stopped for now.  I still saw the therapists for many months and the MD shrink still manages my meds.  I still had night mares from time to time, but that is probably fairly normal.  The dreams usually ended when I had two scalpels and was to fight a whole village of men in Thailand I guess.  The villagers had three scalpels a piece and I had only two.  One for each hand.  I watched the right hands of the villagers too much as they had the two knives in their right hands and their left hand with only one knife would cut me deeply.  I always made it to the last villager where I lay on the ground bleeding out and dying.  I could still feel the awful pain of the knives still sticking into my shoulders.  When I became fully awake I realized I had charlie horses in my shoulders around the back of my neck.  Stress from my sleep the Shrink said.  It just resembled the pain knives would make if they were in the back shoulders.  I always bed out to death.  So I guess that dying in your dreams does not really mean you will dye then, as some have suggested.
               
              My shrink and therapist spent many hours with me convincing me I was not really in unfair knife fights each night and I have drifted  toward normalcy.  The last time I was in I was asked by the therapist how the knife fights were going.  I told her I improved greatly, as I still have the knife fights, but I kill the rest of them and I am fine at the end, as I no longer die at the end..  She wrote on her pad that that was an improvement, but I had a ways to go.  I haven't been back since, but my file is still open if I really need to go talk to her.  All knife fight dreams have passed now.  I sleep in peace.
               
              Love,
              Paul





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            • judyw
              Thanks my friend for taking the time to send me something you think will be helpful. Judy ... Dear Judy, Greetings. I had read about Emile Cue at a very young
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks my friend for taking the time to send me something you think will
                be helpful.

                Judy
                ---------------------
                Dear Judy,
                Greetings. I had read about Emile Cue at a very
                young age and had followed his address of telling myself before sleep,
                ten times "Day by day in every way, I am getting better and better". I
                feel this has helped me in every way. You can read more here :
                http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ %C3%89mile_ Cou%C3%A9
                With love and regards
                VG
              • Matt
                ... This is a method that Eckhart Tolle recommends for a good, sound sleep. It may or may not work for you, but give it a good try - like every night for a
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In nde@yahoogroups.com, Paul Harper <p_harper57@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks but no thanks Helen.  I am rather a private person.
                  >
                  > Thanks again,
                  >
                  > Love,
                  > Paul
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Paul:

                  This is a method that Eckhart Tolle recommends for a good, sound
                  sleep. It may or may not work for you, but give it a good try -
                  like every night for a week.

                  << And what I recommend to people is: as you lie in bed ready to go to sleep, lie on your back, flat on your back, and bring attention, scan your body with your attention from your feet to your head, your
                  hands, your arms.

                  And then feel the internal aliveness of the body as you lie there. You lie in the energy field of your body. That means there's also very little or no thinking going on because the attention moves into the body. Hold that for five, ten minutes. And from there you go
                  to sleep.

                  It's a very pleasant way of saying goodbye to that day and of going into sleep. It feels very much alive.

                  It's joyful actually, to lie there in that energy field. >>

                  I think what Tolle is saying is that it's our thoughts (especially
                  the negative, unpleasant or exciting ones) which play a big role
                  in preventing us from sleeping. Good luck.

                  Matt
                • helen hutton
                  thank you my dear friend Hugs Helen To: nde@yahoogroups.com From: el-stewart@worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:09:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [nde] Paul
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    thank you my dear friend
                    Hugs Helen
                     

                    To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                    From: el-stewart@...
                    Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:09:08 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                    You have a generous heart, Helen, and I know you spend a lot of your time trying to help others.
                    With love,
                    Linda
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:03 PM
                    Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                    Dear Paul
                    I will gladly send you one of my relaxation cds free of charge
                    just let me know if you would like one and i will send it by snail mail(post)
                    Hugs Helen
                     


                    To: nde@yahoogroups. com
                    From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
                    Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:21:37 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                    Dear Helen, I have thought abought it. 
                     
                    There's a man that has commercials on TV here in Phoenix that has many testimonials from people he has helped.  Anti anxiety being one.
                    I have never called for an appoinment as I don't want him to make me dance like a chicken in his office,  Just kidding.  I will have to think more clearly about this.  I beleive it has merit.
                     
                    If dancing like a chicken makes me sleep better, then I am all for it and I'm sure my wife will get use to the routine each night before I jump or crawl into bed.
                     
                    I will look into it Helen.  Thank you.
                     
                    Love,
                    Paul


                    From: helen hutton <starlight.294@ hotmail.com>
                    To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:52:35 PM
                    Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards


                    Dear Paul,
                    Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
                    I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
                    It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
                    How is your heart now?
                    I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety state so well
                    Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
                    I just never get around to treating myself,  oneday,oneday, lol,
                    hugs Helen
                     


                    To: nde@yahoogroups. com
                    From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
                    Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:18:58 -0700
                    Subject: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                     
                    Paul H's NDE
                     
                    I was in the military for a little over 21 years.  17 Aug 1967 through 1 Oct 1988.  In the 1980s, military health care was not as great as it is today.  I had known that my aortic valve was deformed since grade school.  (6th or 7th grade)  The local small town doctor in a town 7 miles away only had Fluoroscope back then.  I never saw what you could see with his fluoroscope, as he was on the other side showing my mom things.  Probably not much.  I was told not to run and play and no high school sports.  I was crushed and in private would go out in the fields and run as far and as fast as I could.  My parents never knew.  I finally found a different doctor who signed my sports physical in a far off small town that allowed me to play football my junior and senior years of high school.  I literally begged that doctor to sign my release.
                     
                    When I joined the military a doctor told me me in 1968 that I would probably have to have that valve replaced in 15 years as it would continue to deteriorate and calcify.  I asked him how they could replace it and he said he wasn't sure as they hadn't figured that out yet, but they would in the coming 15 years.  I waited one year too many.
                     
                    I had been working with an old internal medicine guy that worked for the Army for many years.  He should have retired.  I kept complaining of not being able to breath or run.  I was worried of flunking the upcoming AF Aerobics testing as we had to run 1.5 miles in a short amount of time.  I told the doc I couldn't even run a block now.  He was trying to figure out a way to dismiss it and get me out of his office and he finally said, "Well what do you think it is?'  I told him it had been 16 years since I was told I would need a valve replacement in 15 years, and I thought that valve was calcifying and was not opening or closing correctly.  He said not to get the cart before the horse and to just monitor it for awhile longer.  About 5 months later I drove myself to the base hospital ER and found that instead of pneumonia as I thought I had, I was in full blown congestive heart failure.  My heart had enlarged to an alarming size and had become much weaker and ex rays proved my lungs were filling with liquid.  I was drowning, slowly.
                     
                    I was so bull headed, I drove my wife and I to the civilian hospital.  My poor wife was white as a sheet and cried on the way.  I was in congestive heart failure with a very enlarged heart.  I was admitted to a civilian hospital in Phoenix to remove as much liquid from my body as possible and was waiting for the military to give the go ahead for the civilian hospital to perform open heart surgery and replace a defective aortic valve that had calcified and would no longer close or open all the way.  They removed over 25 pounds of liquid or whatever from me.  At 140 pounds, I was skin and bones.  The civilian doctors were just waiting for word from the military to continue on and do the surgery needed.  All preliminary tests had been done and they knew exactly what I needed.  I had been there for 3 weeks,
                     
                    Instead, the Military said I was to be taken by ambulance 30 miles to my home Air Base and I waited, lying on a very short legged medical cot, that could be loaded on the military medical aircraft and not take up too much room.  I was laying on that 4 inch legged cot, directly on the cement of the flight line and my wife had to fight her way through the military guards to stand over me.  It took a doctor to tell the guards she was my wife and showed the sky cops the same ticket she showed them, with her Id and the medical records she was holding that she was my wife and she would be taking the medical flight with me to Texas.  I could tell she was already near tears.  We watched the plane land and they loaded me in the back along the right wall of the fuselage and my wife sat up front in passenger seats.
                     
                    Then we got to the Texas air base of Brooks and they had a bunch of unqualified airmen transferring the patients from the medical plane and strapped the short legged cots onto a medical bus this time.  My wife also said she got to ride in the front of the bus with the patients in the back.  She said she was in full tears as she watched how roughly they were handling the cots and how they laughed when the cots banged into a part of the bus or another cot.  This was after a very long flight and stops to pick up other patients along the way.  I had to really keep my concentration strong, as several times I was fading out.
                     
                    Then the bus drove us, I am not sure how many miles, but it was fairly close, to Lackland AFB, and to their giant medical hospital - Wilford Hall.  This was an 8 story hospital completely ran by the Air Force and the Air National guard units came all the time to get their two weeks, or weekend training.  It was a good training facility, but the patients suffered from the treatment received from the not fully qualified Air National Guard and Air Reserves.
                     
                    My wife became more agitated when the doctors at this hospital refused all the test results that the civilians had preformed, and that the civilian docs expressed their opinion of my dangerously weakened condition - I should not walk farther than a few feet and maybe have some one accompany me in case I fell.  The first few days they re-accomplished all the tests for open heart surgery.  My wife was steaming and I kept trying to get her to stay calm, because these military folks had their own way of running a hospital, and that was ineptly.
                     
                    Finally not long before the surgery, I repeated the Angiogram test where they put a small catheter into my artery and ran it through my heart and emitted die that they could measure where the die went and how strong the heart was pumping and they checked each valve in this manner.  After the initial test I was asked if I would partake in an extra test for research.  I was laughing along with the rest of them as the patient is awake during this test and could watch the constant x-ray machines (fluoroscope included )monitor that allows them to watch where the catheter is going and watch what the die is doing.  They said I just had to ride an upside down bicycle that was attached to the bed.
                     
                    The doctors and I both should have known better as my heart was so enlarged and weak, It would not take riding an upside down bicycle.  But I said yes and all the people in the room were very excited..  When they placed a small bicycle above me that was attached to the bed, it finally dawned on me why they inserted the catheter into my inner elbow instead of my groin, which is the normal procedure.  Normal - I say because I have had 4 of them in my life and only one went through my elbow.
                     
                    When all was reset, I was told to peddle as hard as needed to get the RPM Gage up into the red zone.  I was having fun and said, "Sure".  I remember just hitting the red zone and my heart stopped.  Every thing went dark, but then immediately it turned in to a vast place with no dimensions, time of sound.  I was alone in this place, or I thought I was at the time. 
                     
                    I could still see and looked in all directions, even under myself and saw only light Grey.  As years have past since that 1984 date, I remember there may have been clouds, but not like normal clouds, they were a solid wall of tight knit clouds that surrounded me.  They were neither near or far, as I had no perception of time, distance or space.  I just enjoyed the most wonderful peace and unconditional love.  I think unconditional love doesn't do it justice, but I can't think of better words unless maybe, "Awe Inspiring".  I thought everything was normal as I didn't remember my earthly life or ever having a body or ego.  I was like a baby wrapped in love. But the love was so intense, I did wonder a little about it I think.  It felt new.  Like a rebirth.
                     
                    It seemed I was there for some time, but time really didn't exist there, but I never thought of "Time" as I did on earth as it would have been useless I guess, or it just wasn't an existing thing there.  There was no sound which I really loved.  It was like being in a sound proof chamber, but without walls.  I remember I could see.  I could look in all directions.  I remember looking under me and over me and I saw nothing but light Grey.  It never dawned on me that when I looked under me, I was missing my earthly body.  I remembered nothing of my earthly self.  Or even that I had ever existed before now.  I saw no earthly things such as waterfalls, fields of grass, mountains or streams of water, or big brightly colored butterflies.  I saw none of that and that may be why I stayed silent for so long.  My story could not come close to what Dannion Brinkley and others on this group described.  However the intense love and peace did match.  I always thought that was the most important part.
                     
                    My heart was stopped for only 20 minutes and then I came back, maybe I would have seen more if I had been there longer.  I don't know.
                     
                    No one came to me or even telepathy told me it was time to go back.  I was in,"Heaven", not knowing what else to call it, I didn't try to label it while I was there.  I was simply there in a wondrous place.  I remembered nothing of an earthly life and would never have returned if given the choice.  I didn't understand what going back meant.  The following is part of the story I don't think  I have told because, although was always part of my NDE memories, they just didn't make sense to me until recently.
                     
                    (Laugh if you must, but this is what I finally determined was my trip back to my body.) 
                     
                    I was in ecstasy just existing in the love and peace.  There was nothing really for my eyes (or sight) to be drawn to.  Then finally I heard a noise over my left rear.  I turned that way and something a bit lower than me (some could say a floor to where I was, I thought of it as being behind me and slightly lower than my straight on vision.)  The slight noise may have been a faint noise from the medical room my earthly body was.  But I would never have made that conclusion then.  At my non existing 'floor'  I saw something I thought I had never seen before.  Something very odd that was moving in place.  I later learned in my earthly mind that I was seeing like a chalk mark outline of a human body.  But the outline was moving.  It even became upright and began to shimmer and still moved in place like a shimmering cartoon character.  It moved in waves, it couldn't be still.  I thought later that the moving in place was to draw my attention.  When I finally fixed my vision on it, I was drawn closer and closer to it.  I had no fear, just a new curiosity.  As in, what the heck is this?  I was not moving, but something was moving me.  I never thought of it as a spirit, and still do not.  Maybe the shimmering of light should have given me a clue, but it didn't and I still don't know what to call it except a standing up straight shimmering and moving in place outline thing.  At that time I thought of it as a marker of some kind.
                     
                    After it or something drew me very close to it, we seemed to have merged together and both were sucked down a very clear tubing.  I could see the outline from very close up as we went down the clear tubing together.  I told you it was weird.
                     
                    The next thing I knew, I was in a worldly room that turned out to be my Angiogram room with my body still there.  I never actually saw my body on the table.  I was up a little and behind a very dusty set of electronic equipment.  My only thoughts were, 'Where am I now and who is going to clean off that dust."  I knew it was dusty electronic equipment, but I knew little else.  I heard the ruckus from the other side of the equipment, but each time I rose above the equipment, the blaring noise and the unbelievable bright lights made me hide gain.  It was painful to experience.  (I still have difficulty with loud noises and bright lights.)  I had no idea where I was and still no clear thoughts of an earthly place, so I thought I was reborn again in a different world.  This one was not pleasant at all.
                     
                    Seems I hid behind that equipment for some time and then the paddles must have been used on my body again and I was in my body and in such unbelievable pain, I remembered where I was and was so sorry for myself, but then determined to stay alive.
                     
                    They brought me back with chemicals and liberal use of the electric paddles.  When I came back to life I thought maybe I had died and gone to hell, which I didn't, and do not believe in hell anymore.  Nor was I afraid of death.  I remember there were several nurses trying to get me to relax (my back was maybe 6 inches off the table after the last paddle blast) and they were pumping a type of sedative in me to get me to lay back down.  I also noticed a very needle large sticking out of my chest with no one holding it.  It was planted deep, to the hilt of the syringe.  There was another large syringe coming out of my neck.  I figure the one  in my chest was in my heart and the one in my neck was in the carotid arteries to my brain to prevent stroke.
                     
                    I tried relaxing and did finally lay back down but then I started to dim out several times. I focused on one small screw that was on the light above my table and I concentrated on that single screw very intensely.  When I would start to dim out, I would concentrate even harder until everything came back into focus.  I know someone in some group said they wouldn't have fought so hard to live again and would gladly have gone back to that wonderful place with all the love.  However for me it felt as though it was my duty to stay alive.  I didn't realize at the time what for, but I was challenged to stay alive somehow.  So I fought hard.
                     
                    One nurse was beside me like a Chatty Cathy doll and was telling me that she kept me breathing or at least forcing air into my lungs with a portable respirator.  I told her thank you and asked her how long I was out.  She told me 20 minutes, but then one of the new doctors who wasn't there before I was gone cursed her and told her to get the hell out.  She left in tears and everyone else except the screaming doctor were very quiet.  I would have thrown something at him if I had had the strength and an object to throw.
                     
                    I was back in my body and my ego had taken over again.  It did not want to die.  My ego started to think of my family and thought I had to stay alive for them.  So I fought and I guess you could call me, "The Winner".  But that was just the start of some terrible times afterwords.  I started hallucinating about 2 to 3 weeks after the operation.  I had been off pain drugs for some time and the docs insisted that I keep taking Tylenol 3 just to calm the pain some..  The hallucinations were when I was truly awake and walking down the halls of the hospital, even down to the main entrance where doctors and visitors arrived.
                     
                    When I first saw a crowd in the hall, all looked normal, but within a couple seconds, a third of the group would change into what I expected new corpses would look like.  All the skin on their faces, hands and even their arms and legs when wearing shorts changed.  All exposed skin turned very white and their were patches of no skin and freshly dead muscle or whatever was exposed.  I don't think I ever saw a medical person turn into such a walking dead person.  But the others scared me so bad I tried to continue my walks with my eyes looking straight at every ones feet.  None of these newly dead ever turned to look at me, thank God.  I didn't tell any of my physicians about the hallucinations as I was afraid I would be moved up to the top floor which was the mental ward.
                     
                    I was moved off the cardiac floor before these hallucinations started.  I finally stayed in my ward and my bed during the night, but everyday after the docs made their early rounds, I would shower and put on as much hospital garb that I could, even those little slipper socks and real slippers and a hospital robe over hospital pajama bottoms and tops.  In my state of mind that made me look like a civilian and I could go anywhere I wanted and the hospital staff would think I was a civilian visitor.  A weird state of mind.
                     
                    After rounds I would eat whatever breakfast they brought and then plan my escape from the hospital.  Back then they still had outside smoking areas.  I checked them all out, I could not stand the stink of the smoke, but I was just looking for the best escape route out of the hospital without getting caught..  I figured out later that they were all the same as no one from the hospital cared or looked in on you after you left the cardiac floor, and being up on a regular open ward with maniacs running wild.
                     
                    But my mind was very busy and finally I found the perfect escape route and followed it as it was on a back corner of the hospital and led back into grassy fields and lines of very large oak trees.  It was so peaceful out there that I would spend every day out there after rounds and either daydream or just sit with my back against one of those giant trees and be as calm as I could.  No one could see me from the other side as the trees that were so large around that it hide my body fine.  And because the patients were not allowed back there, no one ever bothered me.  I stayed another 3 weeks for some reason and the only time my peace was intruded upon was by a medical person walking by on his way to the hospital.  He asked If my Doctor knew I was out this far from the hospital.  I lied and told him it was my doctors idea so I could rest and rediscover my mind.  I had no idea where those words came from, but it was good enough for the medical intruder.
                     
                    Many more things happened during that 6 week stay in Texas and 9 weeks total of hospital stay.  I only got to go home after signing my self out.  I started wondering if that is what the doctors were waiting for.  They brought out many types of releases, releasing all medical care and medical doctors for anything that happened while I was in the hospital.
                     
                    I have heard of others who went into deep depression after an NDE, and I think I did too and finally came to grips about it last year or the year before.  I was becoming more and more paranoid and frightened because I had no means of protecting myself or my family.  I was very weak of body, but fought back hard enough to pass the AF aerobic test and remained on active duty. 
                     
                    I told my wife I was buying a gun for self defense...  That scared her and my grown kids silly and I was forbidden to buy a gun.  I wasn't use to being told what to do and started shopping on the Internet.  My wife must have always been watching as she set up an appointment for me with a shrink and later with a therapist.
                     
                    The first thing she told the shrink was that I needed better treatment for depression and anxiety, and "he wants to buy a gun."  The shrink didn't cotton much to that idea.  He spent an hour with me and said I had Post Traumatic Stress (PTSD).  I knew that no one in Arizona could legally buy a gun if they had ever been diagnosed with PTSD unless they lied on their registration of the weapon and the state didn't catch my lie through investigation.
                     
                    So I honored my families wishes and followed the shrinks advise and was set up with a therapist who specialized in PTSD.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me other than the afterlife.  My nightmares and flashbacks of hallucinations have stopped for now.  I still saw the therapists for many months and the MD shrink still manages my meds.  I still had night mares from time to time, but that is probably fairly normal.  The dreams usually ended when I had two scalpels and was to fight a whole village of men in Thailand I guess.  The villagers had three scalpels a piece and I had only two.  One for each hand.  I watched the right hands of the villagers too much as they had the two knives in their right hands and their left hand with only one knife would cut me deeply.  I always made it to the last villager where I lay on the ground bleeding out and dying.  I could still feel the awful pain of the knives still sticking into my shoulders.  When I became fully awake I realized I had charlie horses in my shoulders around the back of my neck.  Stress from my sleep the Shrink said.  It just resembled the pain knives would make if they were in the back shoulders.  I always bed out to death.  So I guess that dying in your dreams does not really mean you will dye then, as some have suggested.
                     
                    My shrink and therapist spent many hours with me convincing me I was not really in unfair knife fights each night and I have drifted  toward normalcy.  The last time I was in I was asked by the therapist how the knife fights were going.  I told her I improved greatly, as I still have the knife fights, but I kill the rest of them and I am fine at the end, as I no longer die at the end..  She wrote on her pad that that was an improvement, but I had a ways to go.  I haven't been back since, but my file is still open if I really need to go talk to her.  All knife fight dreams have passed now.  I sleep in peace.
                     
                    Love,
                    Paul






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                  • helen hutton
                    Dear Paul It is my pleasure. I respect your privacey ,The offer still stands if you change your mind Hugs Helen To: nde@yahoogroups.com From:
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 1, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Paul
                      It is my pleasure. I respect your privacey
                      ,The offer still stands if you change your mind
                      Hugs Helen
                       

                      To: nde@yahoogroups.com
                      From: p_harper57@...
                      Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:31:39 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                      Thanks but no thanks Helen.  I am rather a private person.
                       
                      Thanks again,
                       
                      Love,
                      Paul


                      From: helen hutton <starlight.294@ hotmail.com>
                      To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:03:36 PM
                      Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                      Dear Paul
                      I will gladly send you one of my relaxation cds free of charge
                      just let me know if you would like one and i will send it by snail mail(post)
                      Hugs Helen
                       


                      To: nde@yahoogroups. com
                      From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
                      Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:21:37 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                      Dear Helen, I have thought abought it. 
                       
                      There's a man that has commercials on TV here in Phoenix that has many testimonials from people he has helped.  Anti anxiety being one.
                      I have never called for an appoinment as I don't want him to make me dance like a chicken in his office,  Just kidding.  I will have to think more clearly about this.  I beleive it has merit.
                       
                      If dancing like a chicken makes me sleep better, then I am all for it and I'm sure my wife will get use to the routine each night before I jump or crawl into bed.
                       
                      I will look into it Helen.  Thank you.
                       
                      Love,
                      Paul


                      From: helen hutton <starlight.294@ hotmail.com>
                      To: nde site <nde@yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:52:35 PM
                      Subject: RE: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                       
                      Dear Paul,
                      Thank you so much for posting your NDE experience.
                      I am glad you now sleep in peace my dear friend
                      It sounds like you have been to hell and back again with your human life experience.Do you still suffer anxiety or night terrors?
                      How is your heart now?
                      I suffer from ptsd and i understand the flashing fear and high anxiety state so well
                      Have you ever tried hypnotherapy Paul? I am a hypnotherapist and i treat clients with these disorders and i find it very successful.
                      I just never get around to treating myself,  oneday,oneday, lol,
                      hugs Helen
                       


                      To: nde@yahoogroups. com
                      From: p_harper57@yahoo. com
                      Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:18:58 -0700
                      Subject: [nde] Paul Harper's NDE, and struggles afterwards

                       
                      Paul H's NDE
                       
                      I was in the military for a little over 21 years.  17 Aug 1967 through 1 Oct 1988.  In the 1980s, military health care was not as great as it is today.  I had known that my aortic valve was deformed since grade school.  (6th or 7th grade)  The local small town doctor in a town 7 miles away only had Fluoroscope back then.  I never saw what you could see with his fluoroscope, as he was on the other side showing my mom things.  Probably not much.  I was told not to run and play and no high school sports.  I was crushed and in private would go out in the fields and run as far and as fast as I could.  My parents never knew.  I finally found a different doctor who signed my sports physical in a far off small town that allowed me to play football my junior and senior years of high school.  I literally begged that doctor to sign my release.
                       
                      When I joined the military a doctor told me me in 1968 that I would probably have to have that valve replaced in 15 years as it would continue to deteriorate and calcify.  I asked him how they could replace it and he said he wasn't sure as they hadn't figured that out yet, but they would in the coming 15 years.  I waited one year too many..
                       
                      I had been working with an old internal medicine guy that worked for the Army for many years.  He should have retired.  I kept complaining of not being able to breath or run.  I was worried of flunking the upcoming AF Aerobics testing as we had to run 1.5 miles in a short amount of time.  I told the doc I couldn't even run a block now.  He was trying to figure out a way to dismiss it and get me out of his office and he finally said, "Well what do you think it is?'  I told him it had been 16 years since I was told I would need a valve replacement in 15 years, and I thought that valve was calcifying and was not opening or closing correctly.  He said not to get the cart before the horse and to just monitor it for awhile longer.  About 5 months later I drove myself to the base hospital ER and found that instead of pneumonia as I thought I had, I was in full blown congestive heart failure.  My heart had enlarged to an alarming size and had become much weaker and ex rays proved my lungs were filling with liquid.  I was drowning, slowly.
                       
                      I was so bull headed, I drove my wife and I to the civilian hospital.  My poor wife was white as a sheet and cried on the way.  I was in congestive heart failure with a very enlarged heart.  I was admitted to a civilian hospital in Phoenix to remove as much liquid from my body as possible and was waiting for the military to give the go ahead for the civilian hospital to perform open heart surgery and replace a defective aortic valve that had calcified and would no longer close or open all the way.  They removed over 25 pounds of liquid or whatever from me.  At 140 pounds, I was skin and bones.  The civilian doctors were just waiting for word from the military to continue on and do the surgery needed.  All preliminary tests had been done and they knew exactly what I needed.  I had been there for 3 weeks,
                       
                      Instead, the Military said I was to be taken by ambulance 30 miles to my home Air Base and I waited, lying on a very short legged medical cot, that could be loaded on the military medical aircraft and not take up too much room.  I was laying on that 4 inch legged cot, directly on the cement of the flight line and my wife had to fight her way through the military guards to stand over me.  It took a doctor to tell the guards she was my wife and showed the sky cops the same ticket she showed them, with her Id and the medical records she was holding that she was my wife and she would be taking the medical flight with me to Texas..  I could tell she was already near tears.  We watched the plane land and they loaded me in the back along the right wall of the fuselage and my wife sat up front in passenger seats.
                       
                      Then we got to the Texas air base of Brooks and they had a bunch of unqualified airmen transferring the patients from the medical plane and strapped the short legged cots onto a medical bus this time.  My wife also said she got to ride in the front of the bus with the patients in the back.  She said she was in full tears as she watched how roughly they were handling the cots and how they laughed when the cots banged into a part of the bus or another cot.  This was after a very long flight and stops to pick up other patients along the way.  I had to really keep my concentration strong, as several times I was fading out.
                       
                      Then the bus drove us, I am not sure how many miles, but it was fairly close, to Lackland AFB, and to their giant medical hospital - Wilford Hall.  This was an 8 story hospital completely ran by the Air Force and the Air National guard units came all the time to get their two weeks, or weekend training.  It was a good training facility, but the patients suffered from the treatment received from the not fully qualified Air National Guard and Air Reserves.
                       
                      My wife became more agitated when the doctors at this hospital refused all the test results that the civilians had preformed, and that the civilian docs expressed their opinion of my dangerously weakened condition - I should not walk farther than a few feet and maybe have some one accompany me in case I fell.  The first few days they re-accomplished all the tests for open heart surgery.  My wife was steaming and I kept trying to get her to stay calm, because these military folks had their own way of running a hospital, and that was ineptly.
                       
                      Finally not long before the surgery, I repeated the Angiogram test where they put a small catheter into my artery and ran it through my heart and emitted die that they could measure where the die went and how strong the heart was pumping and they checked each valve in this manner.  After the initial test I was asked if I would partake in an extra test for research.  I was laughing along with the rest of them as the patient is awake during this test and could watch the constant x-ray machines (fluoroscope included )monitor that allows them to watch where the catheter is going and watch what the die is doing.  They said I just had to ride an upside down bicycle that was attached to the bed.
                       
                      The doctors and I both should have known better as my heart was so enlarged and weak, It would not take riding an upside down bicycle.  But I said yes and all the people in the room were very excited..  When they placed a small bicycle above me that was attached to the bed, it finally dawned on me why they inserted the catheter into my inner elbow instead of my groin, which is the normal procedure.  Normal - I say because I have had 4 of them in my life and only one went through my elbow.
                       
                      When all was reset, I was told to peddle as hard as needed to get the RPM Gage up into the red zone.  I was having fun and said, "Sure".  I remember just hitting the red zone and my heart stopped.  Every thing went dark, but then immediately it turned in to a vast place with no dimensions, time of sound.  I was alone in this place, or I thought I was at the time. 
                       
                      I could still see and looked in all directions, even under myself and saw only light Grey.  As years have past since that 1984 date, I remember there may have been clouds, but not like normal clouds, they were a solid wall of tight knit clouds that surrounded me.  They were neither near or far, as I had no perception of time, distance or space.  I just enjoyed the most wonderful peace and unconditional love.  I think unconditional love doesn't do it justice, but I can't think of better words unless maybe, "Awe Inspiring".  I thought everything was normal as I didn't remember my earthly life or ever having a body or ego.  I was like a baby wrapped in love. But the love was so intense, I did wonder a little about it I think.  It felt new.  Like a rebirth.
                       
                      It seemed I was there for some time, but time really didn't exist there, but I never thought of "Time" as I did on earth as it would have been useless I guess, or it just wasn't an existing thing there.  There was no sound which I really loved.  It was like being in a sound proof chamber, but without walls.  I remember I could see.  I could look in all directions.  I remember looking under me and over me and I saw nothing but light Grey.  It never dawned on me that when I looked under me, I was missing my earthly body.  I remembered nothing of my earthly self.  Or even that I had ever existed before now.  I saw no earthly things such as waterfalls, fields of grass, mountains or streams of water, or big brightly colored butterflies.  I saw none of that and that may be why I stayed silent for so long.  My story could not come close to what Dannion Brinkley and others on this group described.  However the intense love and peace did match.  I always thought that was the most important part.
                       
                      My heart was stopped for only 20 minutes and then I came back, maybe I would have seen more if I had been there longer.  I don't know.
                       
                      No one came to me or even telepathy told me it was time to go back.  I was in,"Heaven", not knowing what else to call it, I didn't try to label it while I was there.  I was simply there in a wondrous place.  I remembered nothing of an earthly life and would never have returned if given the choice.  I didn't understand what going back meant.  The following is part of the story I don't think  I have told because, although was always part of my NDE memories, they just didn't make sense to me until recently.
                       
                      (Laugh if you must, but this is what I finally determined was my trip back to my body.) 
                       
                      I was in ecstasy just existing in the love and peace.  There was nothing really for my eyes (or sight) to be drawn to.  Then finally I heard a noise over my left rear.  I turned that way and something a bit lower than me (some could say a floor to where I was, I thought of it as being behind me and slightly lower than my straight on vision.)  The slight noise may have been a faint noise from the medical room my earthly body was.  But I would never have made that conclusion then.  At my non existing 'floor'  I saw something I thought I had never seen before.  Something very odd that was moving in place.  I later learned in my earthly mind that I was seeing like a chalk mark outline of a human body.  But the outline was moving.  It even became upright and began to shimmer and still moved in place like a shimmering cartoon character.  It moved in waves, it couldn't be still.  I thought later that the moving in place was to draw my attention.  When I finally fixed my vision on it, I was drawn closer and closer to it.  I had no fear, just a new curiosity.  As in, what the heck is this?  I was not moving, but something was moving me.  I never thought of it as a spirit, and still do not.  Maybe the shimmering of light should have given me a clue, but it didn't and I still don't know what to call it except a standing up straight shimmering and moving in place outline thing.  At that time I thought of it as a marker of some kind.
                       
                      After it or something drew me very close to it, we seemed to have merged together and both were sucked down a very clear tubing.  I could see the outline from very close up as we went down the clear tubing together.  I told you it was weird.
                       
                      The next thing I knew, I was in a worldly room that turned out to be my Angiogram room with my body still there.  I never actually saw my body on the table.  I was up a little and behind a very dusty set of electronic equipment.  My only thoughts were, 'Where am I now and who is going to clean off that dust."  I knew it was dusty electronic equipment, but I knew little else.  I heard the ruckus from the other side of the equipment, but each time I rose above the equipment, the blaring noise and the unbelievable bright lights made me hide gain.  It was painful to experience.  (I still have difficulty with loud noises and bright lights.)  I had no idea where I was and still no clear thoughts of an earthly place, so I thought I was reborn again in a different world.  This one was not pleasant at all.
                       
                      Seems I hid behind that equipment for some time and then the paddles must have been used on my body again and I was in my body and in such unbelievable pain, I remembered where I was and was so sorry for myself, but then determined to stay alive.
                       
                      They brought me back with chemicals and liberal use of the electric paddles.  When I came back to life I thought maybe I had died and gone to hell, which I didn't, and do not believe in hell anymore.  Nor was I afraid of death.  I remember there were several nurses trying to get me to relax (my back was maybe 6 inches off the table after the last paddle blast) and they were pumping a type of sedative in me to get me to lay back down.  I also noticed a very needle large sticking out of my chest with no one holding it.  It was planted deep, to the hilt of the syringe.  There was another large syringe coming out of my neck.  I figure the one  in my chest was in my heart and the one in my neck was in the carotid arteries to my brain to prevent stroke.
                       
                      I tried relaxing and did finally lay back down but then I started to dim out several times. I focused on one small screw that was on the light above my table and I concentrated on that single screw very intensely.  When I would start to dim out, I would concentrate even harder until everything came back into focus.  I know someone in some group said they wouldn't have fought so hard to live again and would gladly have gone back to that wonderful place with all the love.  However for me it felt as though it was my duty to stay alive.  I didn't realize at the time what for, but I was challenged to stay alive somehow.  So I fought hard.
                       
                      One nurse was beside me like a Chatty Cathy doll and was telling me that she kept me breathing or at least forcing air into my lungs with a portable respirator.  I told her thank you and asked her how long I was out.  She told me 20 minutes, but then one of the new doctors who wasn't there before I was gone cursed her and told her to get the hell out.  She left in tears and everyone else except the screaming doctor were very quiet.  I would have thrown something at him if I had had the strength and an object to throw.
                       
                      I was back in my body and my ego had taken over again.  It did not want to die.  My ego started to think of my family and thought I had to stay alive for them.  So I fought and I guess you could call me, "The Winner".  But that was just the start of some terrible times afterwords.  I started hallucinating about 2 to 3 weeks after the operation.  I had been off pain drugs for some time and the docs insisted that I keep taking Tylenol 3 just to calm the pain some..  The hallucinations were when I was truly awake and walking down the halls of the hospital, even down to the main entrance where doctors and visitors arrived.
                       
                      When I first saw a crowd in the hall, all looked normal, but within a couple seconds, a third of the group would change into what I expected new corpses would look like.  All the skin on their faces, hands and even their arms and legs when wearing shorts changed.  All exposed skin turned very white and their were patches of no skin and freshly dead muscle or whatever was exposed.  I don't think I ever saw a medical person turn into such a walking dead person.  But the others scared me so bad I tried to continue my walks with my eyes looking straight at every ones feet.  None of these newly dead ever turned to look at me, thank God.  I didn't tell any of my physicians about the hallucinations as I was afraid I would be moved up to the top floor which was the mental ward.
                       
                      I was moved off the cardiac floor before these hallucinations started.  I finally stayed in my ward and my bed during the night, but everyday after the docs made their early rounds, I would shower and put on as much hospital garb that I could, even those little slipper socks and real slippers and a hospital robe over hospital pajama bottoms and tops.  In my state of mind that made me look like a civilian and I could go anywhere I wanted and the hospital staff would think I was a civilian visitor.  A weird state of mind.
                       
                      After rounds I would eat whatever breakfast they brought and then plan my escape from the hospital.  Back then they still had outside smoking areas.  I checked them all out, I could not stand the stink of the smoke, but I was just looking for the best escape route out of the hospital without getting caught..  I figured out later that they were all the same as no one from the hospital cared or looked in on you after you left the cardiac floor, and being up on a regular open ward with maniacs running wild.
                       
                      But my mind was very busy and finally I found the perfect escape route and followed it as it was on a back corner of the hospital and led back into grassy fields and lines of very large oak trees.  It was so peaceful out there that I would spend every day out there after rounds and either daydream or just sit with my back against one of those giant trees and be as calm as I could.  No one could see me from the other side as the trees that were so large around that it hide my body fine.  And because the patients were not allowed back there, no one ever bothered me.  I stayed another 3 weeks for some reason and the only time my peace was intruded upon was by a medical person walking by on his way to the hospital.  He asked If my Doctor knew I was out this far from the hospital.  I lied and told him it was my doctors idea so I could rest and rediscover my mind.  I had no idea where those words came from, but it was good enough for the medical intruder.
                       
                      Many more things happened during that 6 week stay in Texas and 9 weeks total of hospital stay.  I only got to go home after signing my self out.  I started wondering if that is what the doctors were waiting for.  They brought out many types of releases, releasing all medical care and medical doctors for anything that happened while I was in the hospital.
                       
                      I have heard of others who went into deep depression after an NDE, and I think I did too and finally came to grips about it last year or the year before.  I was becoming more and more paranoid and frightened because I had no means of protecting myself or my family.  I was very weak of body, but fought back hard enough to pass the AF aerobic test and remained on active duty. 
                       
                      I told my wife I was buying a gun for self defense....  That scared her and my grown kids silly and I was forbidden to buy a gun.  I wasn't use to being told what to do and started shopping on the Internet.  My wife must have always been watching as she set up an appointment for me with a shrink and later with a therapist.
                       
                      The first thing she told the shrink was that I needed better treatment for depression and anxiety, and "he wants to buy a gun."  The shrink didn't cotton much to that idea.  He spent an hour with me and said I had Post Traumatic Stress (PTSD).  I knew that no one in Arizona could legally buy a gun if they had ever been diagnosed with PTSD unless they lied on their registration of the weapon and the state didn't catch my lie through investigation.
                       
                      So I honored my families wishes and followed the shrinks advise and was set up with a therapist who specialized in PTSD.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me other than the afterlife.  My nightmares and flashbacks of hallucinations have stopped for now.  I still saw the therapists for many months and the MD shrink still manages my meds.  I still had night mares from time to time, but that is probably fairly normal.  The dreams usually ended when I had two scalpels and was to fight a whole village of men in Thailand I guess.  The villagers had three scalpels a piece and I had only two.  One for each hand.  I watched the right hands of the villagers too much as they had the two knives in their right hands and their left hand with only one knife would cut me deeply.  I always made it to the last villager where I lay on the ground bleeding out and dying.  I could still feel the awful pain of the knives still sticking into my shoulders.  When I became fully awake I realized I had charlie horses in my shoulders around the back of my neck.  Stress from my sleep the Shrink said.  It just resembled the pain knives would make if they were in the back shoulders.  I always bed out to death.  So I guess that dying in your dreams does not really mean you will dye then, as some have suggested.
                       
                      My shrink and therapist spent many hours with me convincing me I was not really in unfair knife fights each night and I have drifted  toward normalcy.  The last time I was in I was asked by the therapist how the knife fights were going.  I told her I improved greatly, as I still have the knife fights, but I kill the rest of them and I am fine at the end, as I no longer die at the end..  She wrote on her pad that that was an improvement, but I had a ways to go.  I haven't been back since, but my file is still open if I really need to go talk to her.  All knife fight dreams have passed now.  I sleep in peace.
                       
                      Love,
                      Paul






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