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  • Beck Spelce
    Tyga, http://www.barbaramintzer.com/newsletters/april2006.html This is about Importancef Ritual. Beck -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Tyga,

       

      http://www.barbaramintzer.com/newsletters/april2006.html

       

      This is about Importancef Ritual.

       

      Beck


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    • tyga
      ... Hi Beck, thanks for the link, I read the article and have added a few thoughts below. I think Barbara was particularly speaking of the type of ritual that
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
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        Beck Spelce wrote:

         

        Tyga,

         

        http://www.barbaramintzer.com/newsletters/april2006.html

         

        This is about Importancef Ritual.

         

        Beck



        Hi Beck, thanks for the link, I read the article and have added a few thoughts below.

        I think Barbara was particularly speaking of the type of ritual that we set aside for ourselves, the time we allocate for spending alone doing something special or time to spend with loved ones catching up over a coffee etc etc. I do this myself, no problem there.

        There is practical and meditative reasoning in spending time alone, time to reflect, digest and recuperate. I certainly do not argue that ritual, when used moderately for a practically useful pupose, can assist in a healthy state of being.

        However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no practical basis, do we continue to practice it? I added, that I believe there is much more to this than merely following orders.


        Linda offered her suggestion as to the reason why, which was "fear and superstition", I agree with Linda.

        love,

        tyga


      • Beck Spelce
        _____ From: nde@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nde@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tyga Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:02 AM To: nde@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [nde]
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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          From: nde@yahoogroups.com [mailto: nde@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of tyga
          Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:02 AM
          To: nde@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [nde] For Tyga

           

          Beck Spelce wrote:

           

          Tyga,

           

          http://www.barbaram intzer.com/ newsletters/ april2006. html

           

          This is about Importancef Ritual.

           

          Beck

           

          Hi Beck, thanks for the link, I read the article and have added a few thoughts below.

          I think Barbara was particularly speaking of the type of ritual that we set aside for ourselves, the time we allocate for spending alone doing something special or time to spend with loved ones catching up over a coffee etc etc. I do this myself, no problem there.

          There is practical and meditative reasoning in spending time alone, time to reflect, digest and recuperate. I certainly do not argue that ritual, when used moderately for a practically useful pupose, can assist in a healthy state of being.

          However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no practical basis, do we continue to practice it? I added, that I believe there is much more to this than merely following orders.


          Linda offered her suggestion as to the reason why, which was "fear and superstition" , I agree with Linda.

          love,

          tyga

           

          Tyga,

          We are moving and I admit to not reading the link. Somewhere I read about the importance of social ritual as a bonding of people. So if we go to church or participate in a ceremony it is a form of social bonding which says “I am you”. In families, these can become a “play” where people “act” the ritual, as one family I know which has a Christmas dinner where it is like watching bad acting. In my husband’s family they have the ritual of coming together over holidays and everyone genuinely loves one another and it is a happy and fun occasion. This is the type of ritual I was thinking of.

          I understand Passover, pretty simple concept. I’ve never understood Easter unless it is supposed to be a Christianized version of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Does anyone here understand both traditions?

          Love,

          Beck

           

           




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        • judy
          However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no practical
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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            However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I
            made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no
            practical basis, do we continue to practice it? I added, that I believe
            there is much more to this than merely following orders.
            Tyga
            ---------------------------
            I have been intrigued with this question of tradition. I observe none
            aside from acknowledging birthdays and I do not observe or celebrate
            holidays with gift giving, decorations nor fixing a holiday meal. I did
            do this for my son when he was young because it would provide him with
            enjoyment.

            Yet there is something about the Jewish traditions which seems desirable
            to me. Perhaps it is the sense of family or perhaps it is their
            connecting with their history. I sense a oneness about it all. I have
            no real explanation for this feeling.

            Judy
          • Kiwanis
            ... There is a quote from a popular musical that says.. Because of tradition, every man knows who he is, and what God expects him to do. To me, these were
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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              Tyga said:  I inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no
              practical basis, do we continue to practice it?

              There is a quote from a popular musical that says..
              "Because of tradition, every man knows who he is, and what God expects him to do."
              To me, these were powerful words. Not because I feel tradition is good or bad, but because it explains why some people will go as far as they do for their beliefs. How great it must feel, to believe you know what God expects you to do..  It was also amazing to see that, in the movie, how far the traditions broke down during the course of time. It also showed how their traditions set them apart from others and made them a target for hate.

              Again, I am not suggesting that tradition is good or bad.. I come from a big family and we have many family traditions over the years. However, as time goes by, the traditions change or get replaced. Some mourn the loss for awhile, but change is inevitable.

              Noni



              judy wrote:

              However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I
              made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no
              practical basis, do we continue to practice it? I added, that I believe
              there is much more to this than merely following orders.
              Tyga
              ------------ --------- ------
              I have been intrigued with this question of tradition. I observe none
              aside from acknowledging birthdays and I do not observe or celebrate
              holidays with gift giving, decorations nor fixing a holiday meal. I did
              do this for my son when he was young because it would provide him with
              enjoyment.

              Yet there is something about the Jewish traditions which seems desirable
              to me. Perhaps it is the sense of family or perhaps it is their
              connecting with their history. I sense a oneness about it all. I have
              no real explanation for this feeling.

              Judy

            • tyga
              ... Hi Noni, Could you possibly supply the title of the Movie, it sounds quite interesting, I may want to watch it. Also, I have quite a large family too, when
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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                Kiwanis wrote:
                Tyga said:  I inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no
                practical basis, do we continue to practice it?

                There is a quote from a popular musical that says..
                "Because of tradition, every man knows who he is, and what God expects him to do."
                To me, these were powerful words. Not because I feel tradition is good or bad, but because it explains why some people will go as far as they do for their beliefs. How great it must feel, to believe you know what God expects you to do..  It was also amazing to see that, in the movie, how far the traditions broke down during the course of time. It also showed how their traditions set them apart from others and made them a target for hate.

                Again, I am not suggesting that tradition is good or bad.. I come from a big family and we have many family traditions over the years. However, as time goes by, the traditions change or get replaced. Some mourn the loss for awhile, but change is inevitable.

                Noni
                Hi Noni,

                Could you possibly supply the title of the Movie, it sounds quite interesting, I may want to watch it.

                Also, I have quite a large family too, when we get together it is the biggest laugh and so much fun, we all carry on the whole time trying to out do each other with nonsense and hilarity. An outsider would think we were all insane. I guess we probably are. :)

                I and my family have traditions, we have certain ways of doing things, we generally talk about the same sorts of things, we go to the same sorts of places, we get together for birthdays, holidays and celebrate Christmas. We exchange presents, we hugg and kiss when we meet, ( not every time though of course) , we eat the same sorts of things regularly. One of the first things I do each morning is put the kettle on and make a cup of tea, then I turn on my computer. One of the last things I do before going to sleep, is meditate.

                All these things are ritualistic, potentially traditional. I see no problem with ritual nor tradition. Is it good? I think so, in moderation and for a practical purpose.

                On the other hand, if I was to wash my hands constantly, obsess over cleanliness, count the cracks in the pavement, spell out the words in signs and advertising, bite my finger nails, drink when ever I feel down or lonely or happy or sad or whatever, if I was to smoke, if I was to buy items at the mall for therapy, etc etc etc. These things are probably not bad on their own but they can potentially be problems.

                The point is, if we live our lives unconscious and unaware of our thoughts and our behaviors, we can potentially be slaves to those thoughts and behaviors, performing ritualistically or traditionally for no good purpose, potentially harmful to ourselves and those around us.

                Of course the use of G_d instead of God, is not a big issue, practically trivial in fact, but I just wanted to used this topic to point out the potential problems with blind adherence to tradition and/or ritual but I was particularly interested in the cause of such behavior.

                love,

                tyga

              • tyga
                ... Hi Judy, I am not very traditional, I usually celebrate birthdays and Christmas, mostly because the people I do it for really enjoy it. For myself though,
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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                  judy wrote:
                  > However, this is not the type of ritualistic tradition I was querying. I
                  > made inquired as to why when we can clearly see that a tradition has no
                  > practical basis, do we continue to practice it? I added, that I believe
                  > there is much more to this than merely following orders.
                  > Tyga
                  > ---------------------------
                  > I have been intrigued with this question of tradition. I observe none
                  > aside from acknowledging birthdays and I do not observe or celebrate
                  > holidays with gift giving, decorations nor fixing a holiday meal. I did
                  > do this for my son when he was young because it would provide him with
                  > enjoyment.
                  >
                  > Yet there is something about the Jewish traditions which seems desirable
                  > to me. Perhaps it is the sense of family or perhaps it is their
                  > connecting with their history. I sense a oneness about it all. I have
                  > no real explanation for this feeling.
                  >
                  > Judy
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Hi Judy,

                  I am not very traditional, I usually celebrate birthdays and Christmas,
                  mostly because the people I do it for really enjoy it. For myself
                  though, I wouldn't even bother, I was only born once not every year and
                  I don't particularly like Christmas.

                  Call me an old scrooge but if I had the choice, I'd do away with
                  Christmas and New year all together. I think in this day and age, we
                  cannot as a responsible global society decide to have massive parties
                  celebrating fantasies, based primarily on the mass consumption of
                  consumer items, mountains of food and copious amounts of alcohol. I just
                  see it as absurd when the environment we depend upon is going down the
                  drain, to be partying like it's never been better.

                  I always felt the concept of celebrating a birthday was kinda
                  ridiculous, considering the day of birth is based on the position of the
                  Earth in its general movement around the sun. I'm suppose celebrate my
                  birth on the exact day that the Earth has done a complete 365 day
                  circuit of the Sun. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why not celebrate
                  the birthday at the precise time any planet or given massive body
                  travels a certain distance or time? What does the circuit of the Earth
                  around the Sun have to do with my day of birth anyway? A given day on a
                  calendar? It's absurd in my opinion.

                  Some people do enjoy celebrating my day of birth, they enjoy recognizing
                  the symbolic day. I participate because it is important to me that it is
                  important to them, it would be unfair for me to rob them of that joy,
                  simply because I do not recognize it. I also enjoy the delight people
                  get when I give them a gift and wish them a happy birthday, it's
                  priceless. :)

                  I know what you mean by the Jewish tradition, I feel the same thing. I
                  think it is because it is ancient, because it has continued unbroken for
                  so very long, it is nostalgic. I love history so anything to do with
                  history, even religion, I always find fascinating and strangely alluring.

                  love,

                  tyga
                • judy
                  Tyga, I gave up giving Christmas presents some years ago and included a request that presents not be given to me. During Christmas, I frequently feel sympathy
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    Tyga, I gave up giving Christmas presents some years ago and included a
                    request that presents not be given to me.

                    During Christmas, I frequently feel sympathy for the indebtedness that
                    families incur and the financial hardship that this means for lots of
                    people. Children seem to expect high dollar items.

                    I observe birthdays as a way of recognizing and expressing that this
                    person has much value to me; that I appreciate having them in my life.

                    Yes, Jewish traditions seem to be an unbroken line with history and are
                    a reminder of their joint and shared heritage. I've also enjoyed
                    picking up Yiddish words here and there. There are a few customs that I
                    don't like such as the family doing the ceremony associated with death
                    when one marries outside of the faith. That is probably just the case
                    with orthodox and perhaps conservative but likely not with reform.

                    Judy
                    ------------------------
                    Some people do enjoy celebrating my day of birth, they enjoy recognizing
                    the symbolic day. I participate because it is important to me that it is
                    important to them, it would be unfair for me to rob them of that joy,
                    simply because I do not recognize it. I also enjoy the delight people
                    get when I give them a gift and wish them a happy birthday, it's
                    priceless. :)

                    I know what you mean by the Jewish tradition, I feel the same thing. I
                    think it is because it is ancient, because it has continued unbroken for
                    so very long, it is nostalgic. I love history so anything to do with
                    history, even religion, I always find fascinating and strangely alluring.

                    love,

                    tyga
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