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Re: [naturalismphilosophyforum] Re: another board member's view

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  • stephenlawr0001@aol.com
    In a message dated 30/05/2006 03:57:52 GMT Standard Time, phil_graetz@yahoo.com writes: Hi Phil Tamler Sommers position is very similar to yours. I offered
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2006
      In a message dated 30/05/2006 03:57:52 GMT Standard Time, phil_graetz@... writes:
       
      Hi Phil
      Tamler Sommers' position is very similar to yours. I offered the link
      to Stephen because he expressed a viewpoint very similar to that
      expressed by Sommers in the paper.
      Thanks for the link. I haven't read it yet but I appreciate links and don't want to discourage you from sending them.
       
      You've also asked somewhere along the line "how I came to have the knowledge I have" roughly.
       
      I'll try and link these to things to explain what I've been doing.
       
      Removing memes. 
       
      I've been doing it by observing my self and watching what is happening at the time it's happening. So I've noticed things like, when I think in words those thoughts appear to me to be very close to my tongue and my tongue is in a state of readyness to move. 
       
      I don't think we make choices because when I think back on making a choice I'm making it up after the fact.
       
      If I observe myself at the time it's happening then I see myself doing what I'm doing. I see it happening. It doesn't feel like making choices at all.
       
      Did I know I've been removing memes? No I'd never heard of memes.
       
      Did I know what Einstein thought or what Dawkins thought (I'm not claming he doesn't believe in free will but he doesn't believe in what I consider to be free will which I'm trying to define for you)
       
      Did I know what a lot of modern brain scientists thought or Tammler sommer's thought?
       
      Did I have any information on the benefits of not believing in free will apart from my thoughts/  feelings and observations.
       
      None what so ever!
       
      I may be wrong but what makes me think I'm right more than anything else is I did not read this in a book or on a web site. I'd never herd of naturalism.
       
      I stumbled across naturalism and found what I though fitted quite well with what they thought.
       
      I really imagined I might be unique before that because I'd only met people who;
       
      1. Believed in free will or 2. Don't believe in free will but thought it best to carry on regardless.
       
      I could see all the benefits and thought I was the only one.
       
      Did I come to believe in NfW because of an emotional need?
       
      I'm sure I did but the good news is seeing the benefits came later.
       
      My emotional need was to know the truth (luckily)
       
      I started off believing in FW then doubting FW then firmly committing to not believing in FW.
       
      At none of these stages did I see any benefits. Quite the reverse.
       
      I was prepared to try and think well we haven't got FW but best to carry on as if we have.
       
      It was unsatisfactory but it was what I was trying to do.
       
      Then one day in fact over about three days I burst through the clouds without consciously trying to (I was consciously trying not to even think about it any more.)
       
       
      When I hear that what I'm saying is similar to what they are saying I'm very encouraged but I don't want to read much.
       
      Did I know what Einstein thought or what Dawkins thought (I'm not claming he doesn't believe in free will but he doesn't believe in what I consider to be free will which I'm trying to define for you)
       
      Did I know what a lot of modern brain scientists thought or Tammler sommer's thought?
       
      No I'm encouraged when I hear it but I don't want to read too much.
       
      I don't want to believe because they believe or to gather memes.
       
      I am learning by debating. I'm being challenged all the time every step of the way which is different to reading a book.  
       
      It's working for me at the moment so I'm sticking with it.
       
      Best
       
      Stephen
       
       
       
       
       
    • Tom McWilliams
      ... Hey, Stephen. I have to say, regardless of our disageements about theory, you and I share a very similar practice. There are those who claim that humanity
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 3, 2006
        >Did I know what a lot of modern brain scientists thought or Tammler
        >sommer's thought?
        >
        >No I'm encouraged when I hear it but I don't want to read too much.
        >
        >I don't want to believe because they believe or to gather memes.
        >
        >I am learning by debating. I'm being challenged all the time every step of
        >the way which is different to reading a book.
        >
        >It's working for me at the moment so I'm sticking with it.
        >
        >Best
        >
        >Stephen

        Hey, Stephen.

        I have to say, regardless of our disageements about theory, you and I share
        a very similar practice.

        There are those who claim that humanity will only pass our final exam, if
        enough individuals commit themselves to only trusting information which
        they can confirm on the basis of their own experience.

        Refusing on principle to do anything but original research is a great way
        to accomplish that. I am not as 'pure' as you describe yourself, but I
        always prefer to investigate new notions and realms upon my own
        resources. Only after I get stuck or lost do I start checking out what
        others have found.

        I end up frequently re-inventing wheels, but now I can invent wheels in a
        heart-beat.

        -Tom
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