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Re: How to Tie the Block

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  • entrekin1
    Thanks, Clint. I will add this to the list of links I send new players! Lee
    Message 1 of 19 , May 12, 2013
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      Thanks, Clint. I will add this to the list of links I send new players!

      Lee
      >
    • Carl jayme YOUNG
      Excellent information Clint! Well done! Carl Sent from my iPad
      Message 2 of 19 , May 12, 2013
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        Excellent information Clint! Well done!

        Carl

        Sent from my iPad
      • tezza30
        Looks good Clint, there is a typo error though (I presume it is an error) In the Shoelace knot section, you call it a Showlace instead of Shoelace, thats the
        Message 3 of 19 , May 12, 2013
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          Looks good Clint, there is a typo error though (I presume it is an error) In the Shoelace knot section, you call it a Showlace instead of Shoelace, thats the only error I could see.

          Terry

          --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Clint Goss <clint@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi All -
          >
          > Just posted a new page on Flutopedia on How to Tie the Block. Hoping some folks here could take a once-over and suggest corrections,
          > improvements .
          >
          > http://www.Flutopedia.com/tie_block.htm
          >
          > -- Clint Goss
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Daniel Bingamon
          Clint, That was good. It would be nice to see some other tieing techniques like making a feather noose. Daniel Bingamon ... [Non-text portions of this message
          Message 4 of 19 , May 12, 2013
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            Clint,

            That was good. It would be nice to see some
            other tieing techniques like making a feather noose.

            Daniel Bingamon

            At 04:53 PM 5/11/2013, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >Hi All -
            >
            >Just posted a new page on Flutopedia on How to
            >Tie the Block. Hoping some folks here could take
            >a once-over and suggest corrections,
            >improvements .
            >
            ><http://www.Flutopedia.com/tie_block.htm>http://www.Flutopedia.com/tie_block.htm
            >
            >
            >-- Clint Goss
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Clint Goss
            ... Feather noose? More info ... a pointer to a web resource ... I m clueless ... Wasn t sure whether to include things like wraps and such - like the Hawk
            Message 5 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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              > It would be nice to see some
              > other tieing techniques like making a feather noose.
              > Daniel Bingamon

              Feather noose? More info ... a pointer to a web resource ... I'm clueless ...

              Wasn't sure whether to include things like wraps and such - like the Hawk Littlejohn-style wraps. Seemed way beyond the scope of
              tying the bird (although I've beome famous for going "beyond the scope")

              -- Clint Goss
            • Daniel Bingamon
              A feather noose is where you start near the base of the feather (keep a small amount over 1/4 of the feather) and run a cord loop down along the length of the
              Message 6 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                A feather noose is where you start near the base
                of the feather (keep a small amount over 1/4" of
                the feather) and run a cord loop down along the
                length of the feather stem making a eyelet on the
                end of the feather and then running back up to
                the base of the feather. Then start wrapping
                around the cord and feather stem tightly. When
                you reach the end, insert the chord through the
                loop. At the base of the feather, a small piece
                of the beginning of the cord that was kept 1/4"
                over the feather and pull on it. This will draw
                the eyelet shut and the feather will be captured
                in this wound piece. Usually try to get seven turns on the stem if possible.
                The cord having the feather hanging from it is
                used to decorate the fettish cord.

                Someone might have another name for this. I'll
                see if I can make some pictures.

                At 05:40 AM 5/13/2013, you wrote:
                >
                >
                > > It would be nice to see some
                > > other tieing techniques like making a feather noose.
                > > Daniel Bingamon
                >
                >Feather noose? More info ... a pointer to a web resource ... I'm clueless ...
                >
                >Wasn't sure whether to include things like wraps
                >and such - like the Hawk Littlejohn-style wraps. Seemed way beyond the scope of
                >tying the bird (although I've beome famous for going "beyond the scope")
                >
                >-- Clint Goss
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Clint Goss
                ... Right ... I m getting the idea ... anyone have any Web-resources I could look at? Other pointers?? -- Clint Goss
                Message 7 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                  > A feather noose is where you start near the base
                  > of the feather (keep a small amount over 1/4" of
                  > the feather) and run a cord loop down ...

                  Right ... I'm getting the idea ... anyone have any Web-resources I could look at? Other pointers??

                  -- Clint Goss
                • Barry Higgins
                  If you have Ben Hunts Indian Arts And Crafts book it is in there - certainly an exception to tying off, but Stellar flutes does the colorful linen thread
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                    If you have Ben Hunts Indian Arts And Crafts book it is in there -
                    certainly an exception to tying off, but Stellar flutes does the
                    colorful linen thread thing.

                    Barry WC

                    On May 13, 2013, at 7:29 AM, Clint Goss wrote:

                    > > A feather noose is where you start near the base
                    > > of the feather (keep a small amount over 1/4" of
                    > > the feather) and run a cord loop down ...
                    >
                    > Right ... I'm getting the idea ... anyone have any Web-resources I
                    > could look at? Other pointers??
                    >
                    > -- Clint Goss
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gene
                    Clint, Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for Flutopedia on
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                      Clint,
                      Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes could be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some good stuff.

                      I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down and not compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I favor passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie downs and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm adding a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my photos.

                      I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.

                      Gene
                    • Clint Goss
                      Thanks Gene! I m really not so up on beadwork and wraps and ornamental additions, so I didn t want to delve into it on that page. However, maybe I could simply
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                        Thanks Gene!

                        I'm really not so up on beadwork and wraps and ornamental additions, so I didn't want to delve into it on that page. However, maybe
                        I could simply extend the page with some cool pictures and give folks pointers to other resources ...

                        -- Clint Goss

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gene
                        Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 5:30 PM
                        To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: How to Tie the Block

                        Clint,
                        Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for
                        Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes could be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in
                        there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some good stuff.

                        I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been
                        contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down and not compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I
                        favor passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie
                        downs and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm adding a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my
                        photos.

                        I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.

                        Gene
                      • Barry Higgins
                        Gene - As a flute historian beadwork on historical flutes is an exception to the rule. Most flutes in large collections with bead work were made to sell and
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                          Gene - As a flute historian beadwork on historical flutes is an
                          exception to the rule. Most flutes in large collections with bead
                          work were made to sell and most don't play - we call them "tourist
                          flutes" today we would call them wall hangers. Ties and bore ties/
                          wraps were functional rather than decorative. Early split flutes were
                          made by sealing the two halves with pitch (air sealing not gluing)
                          then the multiple ties or wraps were necessary to keep the halves
                          pressed together and keep them from falling apart. Incise carving of
                          designs and painting were much more prevalent. Today all types of
                          decorative add-ons are done, wraps, fringe, beads, in-lays, exotic
                          woods, and laminations all of which are artistic but have little
                          historical reference.

                          Barry WC



                          On May 13, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Gene wrote:

                          >
                          > Clint,
                          > Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking
                          > fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for
                          > Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes could
                          > be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in
                          > there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some good
                          > stuff.
                          >
                          > I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in
                          > museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been
                          > contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down and not
                          > compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I favor
                          > passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This
                          > holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie downs
                          > and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm adding
                          > a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my photos.
                          >
                          > I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.
                          >
                          > Gene
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Clif Dawson
                          http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com Possibilities in here. One that might be a flute possibility
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 13, 2013
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                            http://www.animatedknots.com/indexbasics.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

                            Possibilities in here. One that might be a flute possibility
                            is the turks head. As a wrapping it looks like a continuous
                            braid. The knot just discussed is called a "whipping".
                            It's original marine application is to keep the"bitter end"
                            of a rope from fraying, or unravelling. Usually the left
                            over tail is cut off but on the end of a feather it can be
                            used as a tieing cord or run it through the tightening
                            loop as a loop itself instead of a single cord.

                            Clif
                            http://www.clifdawson.ca/
                            The Early Bird may get the worm but the second
                            mouse gets the cheese.


                            > A feather noose is where you start near the base
                            > of the feather Right ... I'm getting the idea ... anyone have any Web-resources I could look at? Other pointers??

                            -- Clint Goss




                            No virus found in this message.
                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6322 - Release Date: 05/13/13


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gene
                            Barry, I love to read your comments and hope you find time to give the group many more! Off hand I can t recall seeing any photos with beadwork on the rare and
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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                              Barry,
                              I love to read your comments and hope you find time to give the group many more! Off hand I can't recall seeing any photos with beadwork on the rare and precious survivors of those long gone days. I have seen a lot of painted and wrapped flute photos. If you know of any beaded flute photos (Old Flutes) please guide me to them. When I mentioned studying the museum beadwork, that was just a general comment about beading, not aimed at crafting recreations of historically correct flutes. I am by nature a lover of the beauty of fine woods so I enjoy the work of crafting exotic woods into NAF's that make such wonderful noise. Being also an archeology/history buff, someday, I hope to get around to putting together a grimy, dirty, tattered recreation of an early 1800's flute that appears worn with great age. Maybe with a hammered lead cutting edge. Buffalo horn block, rawhide wrapings and a lot of red paint.
                              Ah, too many flutes yet to build, too little time to do it!
                              Gene


                              --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Barry Higgins <barry@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Gene - As a flute historian beadwork on historical flutes is an
                              > exception to the rule. Most flutes in large collections with bead
                              > work were made to sell and most don't play - we call them "tourist
                              > flutes" today we would call them wall hangers. Ties and bore ties/
                              > wraps were functional rather than decorative. Early split flutes were
                              > made by sealing the two halves with pitch (air sealing not gluing)
                              > then the multiple ties or wraps were necessary to keep the halves
                              > pressed together and keep them from falling apart. Incise carving of
                              > designs and painting were much more prevalent. Today all types of
                              > decorative add-ons are done, wraps, fringe, beads, in-lays, exotic
                              > woods, and laminations all of which are artistic but have little
                              > historical reference.
                              >
                              > Barry WC
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On May 13, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Gene wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Clint,
                              > > Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking
                              > > fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for
                              > > Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes could
                              > > be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in
                              > > there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some good
                              > > stuff.
                              > >
                              > > I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in
                              > > museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been
                              > > contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down and not
                              > > compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I favor
                              > > passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This
                              > > holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie downs
                              > > and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm adding
                              > > a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my photos.
                              > >
                              > > I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.
                              > >
                              > > Gene
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • John
                              Hi Gene I have been wondering what some original Native American flutes looked like with regard to painted colors. All photos that I have seen show flutes that
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 16, 2013
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                                Hi Gene

                                I have been wondering what some original Native American flutes looked like with regard to painted colors. All photos that I have seen show flutes that are faded and worn with age. Do you have any pictures (paintings) showing what they would have looked like when first made, or what colors were most commonly used?

                                Peace

                                FishDoc
                                --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <partynakkid@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Barry,
                                > I love to read your comments and hope you find time to give the group many more! Off hand I can't recall seeing any photos with beadwork on the rare and precious survivors of those long gone days. I have seen a lot of painted and wrapped flute photos. If you know of any beaded flute photos (Old Flutes) please guide me to them. When I mentioned studying the museum beadwork, that was just a general comment about beading, not aimed at crafting recreations of historically correct flutes. I am by nature a lover of the beauty of fine woods so I enjoy the work of crafting exotic woods into NAF's that make such wonderful noise. Being also an archeology/history buff, someday, I hope to get around to putting together a grimy, dirty, tattered recreation of an early 1800's flute that appears worn with great age. Maybe with a hammered lead cutting edge. Buffalo horn block, rawhide wrapings and a lot of red paint.
                                > Ah, too many flutes yet to build, too little time to do it!
                                > Gene
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Barry Higgins <barry@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Gene - As a flute historian beadwork on historical flutes is an
                                > > exception to the rule. Most flutes in large collections with bead
                                > > work were made to sell and most don't play - we call them "tourist
                                > > flutes" today we would call them wall hangers. Ties and bore ties/
                                > > wraps were functional rather than decorative. Early split flutes were
                                > > made by sealing the two halves with pitch (air sealing not gluing)
                                > > then the multiple ties or wraps were necessary to keep the halves
                                > > pressed together and keep them from falling apart. Incise carving of
                                > > designs and painting were much more prevalent. Today all types of
                                > > decorative add-ons are done, wraps, fringe, beads, in-lays, exotic
                                > > woods, and laminations all of which are artistic but have little
                                > > historical reference.
                                > >
                                > > Barry WC
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On May 13, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Gene wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Clint,
                                > > > Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking
                                > > > fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for
                                > > > Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes could
                                > > > be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in
                                > > > there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some good
                                > > > stuff.
                                > > >
                                > > > I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in
                                > > > museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been
                                > > > contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down and not
                                > > > compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I favor
                                > > > passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This
                                > > > holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie downs
                                > > > and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm adding
                                > > > a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my photos.
                                > > >
                                > > > I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.
                                > > >
                                > > > Gene
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • Barry Higgins
                                John the paint used were mostly pigment paint much like stains or what we have called milk paints. most of the historical flutes are at least 100 years old and
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 16, 2013
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                                  John the paint used were mostly pigment paint much like stains or
                                  what we have called milk paints. most of the historical flutes are at
                                  least 100 years old and were used so faded and worn is apropos.
                                  Browns, Oxide Red, Yellow, Green, occasionally blue are most seen.
                                  100 years ago film was B/W so limitations there as well.
                                  Barry WC





                                  On May 16, 2013, at 1:11 PM, John wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Hi Gene
                                  >
                                  > I have been wondering what some original Native American flutes
                                  > looked like with regard to painted colors. All photos that I have
                                  > seen show flutes that are faded and worn with age. Do you have any
                                  > pictures (paintings) showing what they would have looked like when
                                  > first made, or what colors were most commonly used?
                                  >
                                  > Peace
                                  >
                                  > FishDoc
                                  > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Gene"
                                  > <partynakkid@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Barry,
                                  > > I love to read your comments and hope you find time to give the
                                  > group many more! Off hand I can't recall seeing any photos with
                                  > beadwork on the rare and precious survivors of those long gone
                                  > days. I have seen a lot of painted and wrapped flute photos. If you
                                  > know of any beaded flute photos (Old Flutes) please guide me to
                                  > them. When I mentioned studying the museum beadwork, that was just
                                  > a general comment about beading, not aimed at crafting recreations
                                  > of historically correct flutes. I am by nature a lover of the
                                  > beauty of fine woods so I enjoy the work of crafting exotic woods
                                  > into NAF's that make such wonderful noise. Being also an archeology/
                                  > history buff, someday, I hope to get around to putting together a
                                  > grimy, dirty, tattered recreation of an early 1800's flute that
                                  > appears worn with great age. Maybe with a hammered lead cutting
                                  > edge. Buffalo horn block, rawhide wrapings and a lot of red paint.
                                  > > Ah, too many flutes yet to build, too little time to do it!
                                  > > Gene
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Barry Higgins
                                  > <barry@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gene - As a flute historian beadwork on historical flutes is an
                                  > > > exception to the rule. Most flutes in large collections with bead
                                  > > > work were made to sell and most don't play - we call them "tourist
                                  > > > flutes" today we would call them wall hangers. Ties and bore ties/
                                  > > > wraps were functional rather than decorative. Early split
                                  > flutes were
                                  > > > made by sealing the two halves with pitch (air sealing not gluing)
                                  > > > then the multiple ties or wraps were necessary to keep the halves
                                  > > > pressed together and keep them from falling apart. Incise
                                  > carving of
                                  > > > designs and painting were much more prevalent. Today all types of
                                  > > > decorative add-ons are done, wraps, fringe, beads, in-lays, exotic
                                  > > > woods, and laminations all of which are artistic but have little
                                  > > > historical reference.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Barry WC
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > On May 13, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Gene wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Clint,
                                  > > > > Really nice work on the block tying page. When you start talking
                                  > > > > fancy knots and wraps it would appear a whole new section for
                                  > > > > Flutopedia on traditional and modern decorations for flutes
                                  > could
                                  > > > > be started! Excuse me if something on decorating is already in
                                  > > > > there. Flutopedia is so massive, I'm sure I have missed some
                                  > good
                                  > > > > stuff.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I love beadwork and have searched for examples of NA beadwork in
                                  > > > > museums to copy the methods in my own work. I have been
                                  > > > > contemplating how to incorporate beadwork into the tie down
                                  > and not
                                  > > > > compromise the main function of the tie down. Right now, I favor
                                  > > > > passing the tie down through holes drilled in the fetish. This
                                  > > > > holds the block down very firmly for me when I use four tie
                                  > downs
                                  > > > > and gives a nice look with lots of fringe hanging down. I'm
                                  > adding
                                  > > > > a photo of my favorite flute with a beaded wrap to my photos.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I would love to see more chat on decoration ideas in the group.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Gene
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Gene
                                  Home Depot wasn t around 200 years ago, so the paint selection wasn t as diverse as today! I spent hours finding photos of flutes on line. Sorry, I did not
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 17, 2013
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                                    Home Depot wasn't around 200 years ago, so the paint selection wasn't as diverse as today! I spent hours finding photos of flutes on line. Sorry, I did not book mark the sites I visited. I did copy a few photos of old flute and I just posted a couple of pictures of one flute in my album in photos. As I recall Flutopedia did help guild me to some of the photos. Gene's beginnings is my album

                                    Gene
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