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Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Stalk flute

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  • Daniel Bingamon
    I would think that the reverse taper wide to narrow would be the direction, like a recorder does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That causes the lower
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 1, 2013
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      I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
      narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
      does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
      causes the lower toneholes to come closer
      together and supposes to reflect the air column better on lower notes.

      At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
      >
      >
      >Hello All,
      >
      >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
      >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
      >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
      >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
      >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
      >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
      >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >Joe D
      >PHZ,AZ
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Barry Higgins
      Dan s comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register notes. There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native Flutes. Also
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 1, 2013
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        Dan's comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register
        notes.
        There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native
        Flutes.
        Also the head joint (only) of a Silver transverse is also narrow to
        wide (bore is essentially cylindrical.

        Barry WC

        On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:

        > I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
        > narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
        > does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
        > causes the lower toneholes to come closer
        > together and supposes to reflect the air column better on lower notes.
        >
        > At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >Hello All,
        > >
        > >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
        > >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
        > >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
        > >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
        > >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
        > >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
        > >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
        > >
        > >Thanks,
        > >
        > >Joe D
        > >PHZ,AZ
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • joemath49
        Dan and Barry, Thanks for the food for thought information. The tin whistle made from tin does use a wide (mouth) to narrow design. I asked this question
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 1, 2013
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          Dan and Barry,

          Thanks for the food for thought information. The tin whistle made from tin does use a wide (mouth) to narrow design. I asked this question because the branch flute information I found in the archives overlooked this question.

          Joe D


          --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Barry Higgins <barry@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dan's comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register
          > notes.
          > There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native
          > Flutes.
          > Also the head joint (only) of a Silver transverse is also narrow to
          > wide (bore is essentially cylindrical.
          >
          > Barry WC
          >
          > On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
          >
          > > I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
          > > narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
          > > does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
          > > causes the lower toneholes to come closer
          > > together and supposes to reflect the air column better on lower notes.
          > >
          > > At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >Hello All,
          > > >
          > > >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
          > > >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
          > > >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
          > > >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
          > > >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
          > > >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
          > > >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
          > > >
          > > >Thanks,
          > > >
          > > >Joe D
          > > >PHZ,AZ
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Daniel Bingamon
          Joe, Tin whistles haven t been made of tin in about a hundred years - only the name remains. One that appear to look like tin are plated brass, steel. Some
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 2, 2013
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            Joe,
            Tin whistles haven't been made of tin in about a
            hundred years - only the name remains. One that
            appear to look like tin are plated brass,
            steel. Some are wood or plastic as well.
            Some of them use a wide to narrow design and many
            of them are a straight cylindrical bore.
            All modern recorders have a wide to narrow taper.

            The wide to narrow does help the low notes on those instruments.
            As previously mentioned, the Boehm flute (flute
            used in bands, orchestras, etc) has a reduction
            of the bore in it's mouthpiece referred to by
            it's inventor as a "parabolic taper". The
            parabolic term however has something to do with
            acoustics, not physical measurement -- it drove
            many crazy trying to find the physical parabola
            in the measurements and none yet to be found.

            Tapers of any kind have a big effect on second
            octave tuning, most native flutes don't have a
            second octave to worry about. Reverse tapers
            have been known to help bring the three lower
            holes closer together for less finger stretching
            with the largest effect on the bottom hole.
            Daniel Bingamon

            At 07:58 PM 3/1/2013, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Dan and Barry,
            >
            >Thanks for the food for thought information. The
            >tin whistle made from tin does use a wide
            >(mouth) to narrow design. I asked this question
            >because the branch flute information I found in
            >the archives overlooked this question.
            >
            >Joe D
            >
            >--- In
            ><mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
            >Barry Higgins wrote:
            > >
            > > Dan's comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register
            > > notes.
            > > There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native
            > > Flutes.
            > > Also the head joint (only) of a Silver transverse is also narrow to
            > > wide (bore is essentially cylindrical.
            > >
            > > Barry WC
            > >
            > > On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
            > >
            > > > I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
            > > > narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
            > > > does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
            > > > causes the lower toneholes to come closer
            > > > together and supposes to reflect the air column better on lower notes.
            > > >
            > > > At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >Hello All,
            > > > >
            > > > >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
            > > > >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
            > > > >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
            > > > >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
            > > > >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
            > > > >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
            > > > >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
            > > > >
            > > > >Thanks,
            > > > >
            > > > >Joe D
            > > > >PHZ,AZ
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • joemath49
            Dan, Thanks for the education on Tin Whistles. I knew they are still made of metal and tapered. Here is a website if anyone wants to see the taper:
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 2, 2013
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              Dan,

              Thanks for the education on Tin Whistles. I knew they are still made of metal and tapered. Here is a website if anyone wants to see the taper:
              http://www.clarketinwhistle.com/products/Default.aspx



              --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Bingamon <daniel@...> wrote:
              >
              > Joe,
              > Tin whistles haven't been made of tin in about a
              > hundred years - only the name remains. One that
              > appear to look like tin are plated brass,
              > steel. Some are wood or plastic as well.
              > Some of them use a wide to narrow design and many
              > of them are a straight cylindrical bore.
              > All modern recorders have a wide to narrow taper.
              >
              > The wide to narrow does help the low notes on those instruments.
              > As previously mentioned, the Boehm flute (flute
              > used in bands, orchestras, etc) has a reduction
              > of the bore in it's mouthpiece referred to by
              > it's inventor as a "parabolic taper". The
              > parabolic term however has something to do with
              > acoustics, not physical measurement -- it drove
              > many crazy trying to find the physical parabola
              > in the measurements and none yet to be found.
              >
              > Tapers of any kind have a big effect on second
              > octave tuning, most native flutes don't have a
              > second octave to worry about. Reverse tapers
              > have been known to help bring the three lower
              > holes closer together for less finger stretching
              > with the largest effect on the bottom hole.
              > Daniel Bingamon
              >
              > At 07:58 PM 3/1/2013, you wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >Dan and Barry,
              > >
              > >Thanks for the food for thought information. The
              > >tin whistle made from tin does use a wide
              > >(mouth) to narrow design. I asked this question
              > >because the branch flute information I found in
              > >the archives overlooked this question.
              > >
              > >Joe D
              > >
              > >--- In
              > ><mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
              > >Barry Higgins wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dan's comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register
              > > > notes.
              > > > There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native
              > > > Flutes.
              > > > Also the head joint (only) of a Silver transverse is also narrow to
              > > > wide (bore is essentially cylindrical.
              > > >
              > > > Barry WC
              > > >
              > > > On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
              > > > > narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
              > > > > does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
              > > > > causes the lower toneholes to come closer
              > > > > together and supposes to reflect the air column better on lower notes.
              > > > >
              > > > > At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Hello All,
              > > > > >
              > > > > >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
              > > > > >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
              > > > > >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
              > > > > >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
              > > > > >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
              > > > > >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
              > > > > >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Thanks,
              > > > > >
              > > > > >Joe D
              > > > > >PHZ,AZ
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Daniel Bingamon
              In the old days they used lead in the fipple block. Fortunately that is not practiced anymore. If you come across one with a lead block, don t play it, keep
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 2, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                In the old days they used lead in the fipple
                block. Fortunately that is not practiced anymore.
                If you come across one with a lead block, don't
                play it, keep it and don't alter it --- that's a collectors item.

                At 12:33 PM 3/2/2013, you wrote:
                >
                >
                >Dan,
                >
                >Thanks for the education on Tin Whistles. I knew
                >they are still made of metal and tapered. Here
                >is a website if anyone wants to see the taper:
                ><http://www.clarketinwhistle.com/products/Default.aspx>http://www.clarketinwhistle.com/products/Default.aspx
                >
                >--- In
                ><mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
                >Daniel Bingamon wrote:
                > >
                > > Joe,
                > > Tin whistles haven't been made of tin in about a
                > > hundred years - only the name remains. One that
                > > appear to look like tin are plated brass,
                > > steel. Some are wood or plastic as well.
                > > Some of them use a wide to narrow design and many
                > > of them are a straight cylindrical bore.
                > > All modern recorders have a wide to narrow taper.
                > >
                > > The wide to narrow does help the low notes on those instruments.
                > > As previously mentioned, the Boehm flute (flute
                > > used in bands, orchestras, etc) has a reduction
                > > of the bore in it's mouthpiece referred to by
                > > it's inventor as a "parabolic taper". The
                > > parabolic term however has something to do with
                > > acoustics, not physical measurement -- it drove
                > > many crazy trying to find the physical parabola
                > > in the measurements and none yet to be found.
                > >
                > > Tapers of any kind have a big effect on second
                > > octave tuning, most native flutes don't have a
                > > second octave to worry about. Reverse tapers
                > > have been known to help bring the three lower
                > > holes closer together for less finger stretching
                > > with the largest effect on the bottom hole.
                > > Daniel Bingamon
                > >
                > > At 07:58 PM 3/1/2013, you wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Dan and Barry,
                > > >
                > > >Thanks for the food for thought information. The
                > > >tin whistle made from tin does use a wide
                > > >(mouth) to narrow design. I asked this question
                > > >because the branch flute information I found in
                > > >the archives overlooked this question.
                > > >
                > > >Joe D
                > > >
                > > >--- In
                > > ><mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.
                > com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
                > > >Barry Higgins wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Dan's comment would be the best if looking for extended 2nd register
                > > > > notes.
                > > > > There is also precedence for narrow to wide in some historical Native
                > > > > Flutes.
                > > > > Also the head joint (only) of a Silver transverse is also narrow to
                > > > > wide (bore is essentially cylindrical.
                > > > >
                > > > > Barry WC
                > > > >
                > > > > On Mar 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Daniel Bingamon wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > I would think that the reverse taper "wide to
                > > > > > narrow" would be the direction, like a recorder
                > > > > > does. Which is usually a 2 degree taper. That
                > > > > > causes the lower toneholes to come closer
                > > > > > together and supposes to reflect the
                > air column better on lower notes.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > At 12:35 AM 3/1/2013, joemath49 wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >Hello All,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >I have 2 Agave stalks drying. Which end of the
                > > > > > >stalk is recommended for the mouth end (smaller
                > > > > > >or larger diameter end) ? I am thinking the
                > > > > > >smaller diameter end because the mouth piece
                > > > > > >could have less carving. Does it also mean that
                > > > > > >the flute will be a higher frequency (pitch)
                > > > > > >than if the larger diameter end was the mouth end?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >Thanks,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >Joe D
                > > > > > >PHZ,AZ
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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