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Designing a flute in D

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  • Wayne Greenway
    Happy New Year! I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very good. I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes. I finished the outer coating
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 2, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Happy New Year!

      I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very good.
      I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes.
      I finished the outer coating this weekend (water based Verathane) and was surprised the difference in the voice of the finished flute from the un-finished flute.
      It sounds clearer and it's voice is a little stronger. A small issue with hole # 1 cleared up too.
      Small changes seem to have a big impact.

      I am now getting my ducks in a row for creating a D flute.

      I have some hardwoods and softer woods to choose from:
      Black walnut
      Cumaru- This was the wood I used for my first 2 piece flute. An oily hardwood and a real learning experience in gluing prep(;
      Zebrawood
      Cherry
      Wenge
      Cedar
      and White Oak

      I plan on making the bore 1-1/8"
      Wall thickness will be ~3/16"
      Bore should be ~ 20.25" long to start.
      TSH: Width - ~ 9/16"
      Length ~ 7/32"
      Flue Depth ~1/32"
      Wood?

      On my E flute I followed the Kieta Flute Making Manual very closely and am pretty happy with the results.
      The flute sounds great and is fun to play...and I made it (:
      I have 1" spacing between the holes. Hole diameters vary quite a bit. From ~ 0.25" - 0.35".
      A few of the finger holes are 0.25" in diameter and the flute has a soft voice.
      I would like to get the hole size closer to 5/16" and get a little better projection as I play a lot outdoors.
      I do prefer the equal spacing (or as close as is reasonable) between holes if at all possible. As I practice going from flute to flute (different keys) I play more consistently.

      Suggestions anyone?

      I have one good suggestion with some good parameters on Flutopedia but I don't quite understand all the parameters yet.
      I'm working on it.

      Cheers!
      Wayne

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Barry Higgins
      Wayne - I would say using the NAF Flutomat on Flutopedia (say 5 times fast) is the best bet for hole placements by size preference. Someone here can help you
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 2, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Wayne - I would say using the NAF Flutomat on Flutopedia (say 5 times
        fast) is the best bet for hole placements by size preference. Someone
        here can help you decipher what the minimum data entry elements are
        from the advanced. Would keep 1 1/8 as the max bore ID any larger and
        the holes will be getting close to nodal interference issues.

        Quick run down on the wood choices

        Black Walnut - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood
        - all round great wood to work with but avoid the curly stuff for now
        as most has high tension in the wood from the drying process and can
        distort when cut down to flute blank sizes

        Cherry - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood bit
        brighter than Blk Walnut - all round great wood to work with.

        Cedar - you did not mention which type Atlantic White, Western Red,
        Aromatic Red (Juniper), Post Orford, Alaskan Yellow (Cypress) all are
        good flute woods, mill and glue well. They sound different however and
        Aromatic will often need to have knot stabilization done unless you
        have very clear stock.

        Oak - in general is VERY porous (open grain) although white is much
        better than Red they can leak air and suck up moisture making them
        prone to splitting. Some red oak can be dripped in soapy water put
        mouth to the end and blow and make bubbles. With both use heavy
        sealing coats on the insides.

        Zebra and Wenge both exhibit long stringy grain can tend to splinter
        while turning. Wenge has hard and soft grain lines be careful when
        sanding not to get ruts from the soft grain betting sanded off deeper
        than the hard grains - Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow pine can do
        this same thing as well.

        Cumaru - I voted on this one earlier but better used for building a
        deck.

        Small holes and thick flutes are not a good combo if you want a louder
        flute. Small holes and thin walls will give you a very expressive
        flute however.

        Even holes size and spacing is not the best way to go for accurate
        cross fingering - although you are a new player as well - I would
        suggest you start now being more flexible with the hole arrangement
        because your preference might box you in later on. I" inch spacing is
        pretty tight target for a D especially on the bottom notes. Keep in
        mind the basics of flute design is a quite linear model as you go down
        from the middle keys things get longer, wider, and greater spaced as
        you go and above middle they get shorter, narrower, and less space
        between the hole. With ultra high flutes small mistakes are like big
        mistakes on a medium size flute.

        my nickels worth - Barry WC


        On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Wayne Greenway wrote:

        > Happy New Year!
        >
        > I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very good.
        > I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes.
        > I finished the outer coating this weekend (water based Verathane)
        > and was surprised the difference in the voice of the finished flute
        > from the un-finished flute.
        > It sounds clearer and it's voice is a little stronger. A small issue
        > with hole # 1 cleared up too.
        > Small changes seem to have a big impact.
        >
        > I am now getting my ducks in a row for creating a D flute.
        >
        > I have some hardwoods and softer woods to choose from:
        > Black walnut
        > Cumaru- This was the wood I used for my first 2 piece flute. An oily
        > hardwood and a real learning experience in gluing prep(;
        > Zebrawood
        > Cherry
        > Wenge
        > Cedar
        > and White Oak
        >
        > I plan on making the bore 1-1/8"
        > Wall thickness will be ~3/16"
        > Bore should be ~ 20.25" long to start.
        > TSH: Width - ~ 9/16"
        > Length ~ 7/32"
        > Flue Depth ~1/32"
        > Wood?
        >
        > On my E flute I followed the Kieta Flute Making Manual very closely
        > and am pretty happy with the results.
        > The flute sounds great and is fun to play...and I made it (:
        > I have 1" spacing between the holes. Hole diameters vary quite a
        > bit. From ~ 0.25" - 0.35".
        > A few of the finger holes are 0.25" in diameter and the flute has a
        > soft voice.
        > I would like to get the hole size closer to 5/16" and get a little
        > better projection as I play a lot outdoors.
        > I do prefer the equal spacing (or as close as is reasonable) between
        > holes if at all possible. As I practice going from flute to flute
        > (different keys) I play more consistently.
        >
        > Suggestions anyone?
        >
        > I have one good suggestion with some good parameters on Flutopedia
        > but I don't quite understand all the parameters yet.
        > I'm working on it.
        >
        > Cheers!
        > Wayne
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joe Mulrooney
        is there like a how to use the NAF Flutomat i don t  understand it  and so i would love to meet so one or a youtube video would be great for me Love you.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 3, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          is there like a how to use the NAF Flutomat i don't  understand it  and so i would love to meet so one or a youtube video would be great for me

          Love you. Take care. Put Yeshua first in all you do.


          ________________________________
          From: Barry Higgins <barry@...>
          To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Designing a flute in D

          Wayne - I would say using the NAF Flutomat on Flutopedia (say 5 times 
          fast) is the best bet for hole placements by size preference. Someone 
          here can help you decipher what the minimum data entry elements are 
          from the advanced. Would keep 1 1/8 as the max bore ID any larger and 
          the holes will be getting close to nodal interference issues.

          Quick run down on the wood choices

          Black Walnut - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood 
          - all round great wood to work with but avoid the curly stuff for now 
          as most has high tension in the wood from the drying process and can 
          distort when cut down to flute blank sizes

          Cherry - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood bit 
          brighter than Blk Walnut - all round great wood to work with.

          Cedar - you did not mention which type Atlantic White, Western Red, 
          Aromatic Red (Juniper), Post Orford, Alaskan Yellow (Cypress) all are 
          good flute woods, mill and glue well. They sound different however and 
          Aromatic will often need to have knot stabilization done unless you 
          have very clear stock.

          Oak - in general is VERY porous (open grain) although white is much 
          better than Red they can leak air and suck up moisture making them 
          prone to splitting. Some red oak can be dripped in soapy water put 
          mouth to the end and blow and make bubbles. With both use heavy 
          sealing coats on the insides.

          Zebra and Wenge both exhibit long stringy grain can tend to splinter 
          while turning. Wenge has hard and soft grain lines be careful when 
          sanding not to get ruts from the soft grain betting sanded off deeper 
          than the hard grains - Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow pine can do 
          this same thing as well.

          Cumaru - I voted on this one earlier but better used for building a 
          deck.

          Small holes and thick flutes are not a good combo if you want a louder 
          flute. Small holes and thin walls will give you a very expressive 
          flute however.

          Even holes size and spacing is not the best way to go for accurate 
          cross fingering - although you are a new player as well - I would 
          suggest you start now being more flexible with the hole arrangement 
          because your preference might box you in later on. I" inch spacing is 
          pretty tight target for a D especially on the bottom notes. Keep in 
          mind the basics of flute design is a quite linear model as you go down 
          from the middle keys things get longer, wider, and greater spaced as 
          you go and above middle they get shorter, narrower, and less space 
          between the hole. With ultra high flutes small mistakes are like big 
          mistakes on a medium size flute.

          my nickels worth - Barry WC


          On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Wayne Greenway wrote:

          > Happy New Year!
          >
          > I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very good.
          > I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes.
          > I finished the outer coating this weekend (water based Verathane) 
          > and was surprised the difference in the voice of the finished flute 
          > from the un-finished flute.
          > It sounds clearer and it's voice is a little stronger. A small issue 
          > with hole # 1 cleared up too.
          > Small changes seem to have a big impact.
          >
          > I am now getting my ducks in a row for creating a D flute.
          >
          > I have some hardwoods and softer woods to choose from:
          > Black walnut
          > Cumaru- This was the wood I used for my first 2 piece flute. An oily 
          > hardwood and a real learning experience in gluing prep(;
          > Zebrawood
          > Cherry
          > Wenge
          > Cedar
          > and White Oak
          >
          > I plan on making the bore 1-1/8"
          > Wall thickness will be ~3/16"
          > Bore should be ~ 20.25" long to start.
          > TSH: Width - ~ 9/16"
          > Length ~ 7/32"
          > Flue Depth ~1/32"
          > Wood?
          >
          > On my E flute I followed the Kieta Flute Making Manual very closely 
          > and am pretty happy with the results.
          > The flute sounds great and is fun to play...and I made it (:
          > I have 1" spacing between the holes. Hole diameters vary quite a 
          > bit. From ~ 0.25" - 0.35".
          > A few of the finger holes are 0.25" in diameter and the flute has a 
          > soft voice.
          > I would like to get the hole size closer to 5/16" and get a little 
          > better projection as I play a lot outdoors.
          > I do prefer the equal spacing (or as close as is reasonable) between 
          > holes if at all possible. As I practice going from flute to flute 
          > (different keys) I play more consistently.
          >
          > Suggestions anyone?
          >
          > I have one good suggestion with some good parameters on Flutopedia 
          > but I don't quite understand all the parameters yet.
          > I'm working on it.
          >
          > Cheers!
          > Wayne
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wayne Greenway
          That would be great if there was more info on using Flutomat and what the must enter parameters are and what they mean. Wayne ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 3, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            That would be great if there was more info on using Flutomat and what the must enter parameters are and what they mean.

            Wayne

            On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Joe Mulrooney wrote:

            >
            > is there like a how to use the NAF Flutomat i don't understand it and so i would love to meet so one or a youtube video would be great for me
            >
            > Love you. Take care. Put Yeshua first in all you do.
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Barry Higgins barry@...>
            > To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:37 AM
            > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Designing a flute in D
            >
            > Wayne - I would say using the NAF Flutomat on Flutopedia (say 5 times
            > fast) is the best bet for hole placements by size preference. Someone
            > here can help you decipher what the minimum data entry elements are
            > from the advanced. Would keep 1 1/8 as the max bore ID any larger and
            > the holes will be getting close to nodal interference issues.
            >
            > Quick run down on the wood choices
            >
            > Black Walnut - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood
            > - all round great wood to work with but avoid the curly stuff for now
            > as most has high tension in the wood from the drying process and can
            > distort when cut down to flute blank sizes
            >
            > Cherry - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood bit
            > brighter than Blk Walnut - all round great wood to work with.
            >
            > Cedar - you did not mention which type Atlantic White, Western Red,
            > Aromatic Red (Juniper), Post Orford, Alaskan Yellow (Cypress) all are
            > good flute woods, mill and glue well. They sound different however and
            > Aromatic will often need to have knot stabilization done unless you
            > have very clear stock.
            >
            > Oak - in general is VERY porous (open grain) although white is much
            > better than Red they can leak air and suck up moisture making them
            > prone to splitting. Some red oak can be dripped in soapy water put
            > mouth to the end and blow and make bubbles. With both use heavy
            > sealing coats on the insides.
            >
            > Zebra and Wenge both exhibit long stringy grain can tend to splinter
            > while turning. Wenge has hard and soft grain lines be careful when
            > sanding not to get ruts from the soft grain betting sanded off deeper
            > than the hard grains - Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow pine can do
            > this same thing as well.
            >
            > Cumaru - I voted on this one earlier but better used for building a
            > deck.
            >
            > Small holes and thick flutes are not a good combo if you want a louder
            > flute. Small holes and thin walls will give you a very expressive
            > flute however.
            >
            > Even holes size and spacing is not the best way to go for accurate
            > cross fingering - although you are a new player as well - I would
            > suggest you start now being more flexible with the hole arrangement
            > because your preference might box you in later on. I" inch spacing is
            > pretty tight target for a D especially on the bottom notes. Keep in
            > mind the basics of flute design is a quite linear model as you go down
            > from the middle keys things get longer, wider, and greater spaced as
            > you go and above middle they get shorter, narrower, and less space
            > between the hole. With ultra high flutes small mistakes are like big
            > mistakes on a medium size flute.
            >
            > my nickels worth - Barry WC
            >
            > On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Wayne Greenway wrote:
            >
            > > Happy New Year!
            > >
            > > I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very good.
            > > I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes.
            > > I finished the outer coating this weekend (water based Verathane)
            > > and was surprised the difference in the voice of the finished flute
            > > from the un-finished flute.
            > > It sounds clearer and it's voice is a little stronger. A small issue
            > > with hole # 1 cleared up too.
            > > Small changes seem to have a big impact.
            > >
            > > I am now getting my ducks in a row for creating a D flute.
            > >
            > > I have some hardwoods and softer woods to choose from:
            > > Black walnut
            > > Cumaru- This was the wood I used for my first 2 piece flute. An oily
            > > hardwood and a real learning experience in gluing prep(;
            > > Zebrawood
            > > Cherry
            > > Wenge
            > > Cedar
            > > and White Oak
            > >
            > > I plan on making the bore 1-1/8"
            > > Wall thickness will be ~3/16"
            > > Bore should be ~ 20.25" long to start.
            > > TSH: Width - ~ 9/16"
            > > Length ~ 7/32"
            > > Flue Depth ~1/32"
            > > Wood?
            > >
            > > On my E flute I followed the Kieta Flute Making Manual very closely
            > > and am pretty happy with the results.
            > > The flute sounds great and is fun to play...and I made it (:
            > > I have 1" spacing between the holes. Hole diameters vary quite a
            > > bit. From ~ 0.25" - 0.35".
            > > A few of the finger holes are 0.25" in diameter and the flute has a
            > > soft voice.
            > > I would like to get the hole size closer to 5/16" and get a little
            > > better projection as I play a lot outdoors.
            > > I do prefer the equal spacing (or as close as is reasonable) between
            > > holes if at all possible. As I practice going from flute to flute
            > > (different keys) I play more consistently.
            > >
            > > Suggestions anyone?
            > >
            > > I have one good suggestion with some good parameters on Flutopedia
            > > but I don't quite understand all the parameters yet.
            > > I'm working on it.
            > >
            > > Cheers!
            > > Wayne
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Barry Higgins
            Just checked lots of instructions just scroll down the page..... http://www.flutopedia.com/naflutomat.htm Seems this should be enough Barry WC
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 3, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Just checked lots of instructions just scroll down the page.....

              http://www.flutopedia.com/naflutomat.htm

              Seems this should be enough

              Barry WC






              On Jan 4, 2013, at 12:33 AM, Wayne Greenway wrote:

              > That would be great if there was more info on using Flutomat and
              > what the must enter parameters are and what they mean.
              >
              > Wayne
              >
              > On Jan 3, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Joe Mulrooney wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> is there like a how to use the NAF Flutomat i don't understand it
              >> and so i would love to meet so one or a youtube video would be
              >> great for me
              >>
              >> Love you. Take care. Put Yeshua first in all you do.
              >>
              >>
              >> ________________________________
              >> From: Barry Higgins barry@...>
              >> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
              >> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:37 AM
              >> Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Designing a flute in D
              >>
              >> Wayne - I would say using the NAF Flutomat on Flutopedia (say 5 times
              >> fast) is the best bet for hole placements by size preference. Someone
              >> here can help you decipher what the minimum data entry elements are
              >> from the advanced. Would keep 1 1/8 as the max bore ID any larger and
              >> the holes will be getting close to nodal interference issues.
              >>
              >> Quick run down on the wood choices
              >>
              >> Black Walnut - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood
              >> - all round great wood to work with but avoid the curly stuff for now
              >> as most has high tension in the wood from the drying process and can
              >> distort when cut down to flute blank sizes
              >>
              >> Cherry - excellent milling, excellent gluing, med resonant wood bit
              >> brighter than Blk Walnut - all round great wood to work with.
              >>
              >> Cedar - you did not mention which type Atlantic White, Western Red,
              >> Aromatic Red (Juniper), Post Orford, Alaskan Yellow (Cypress) all are
              >> good flute woods, mill and glue well. They sound different however
              >> and
              >> Aromatic will often need to have knot stabilization done unless you
              >> have very clear stock.
              >>
              >> Oak - in general is VERY porous (open grain) although white is much
              >> better than Red they can leak air and suck up moisture making them
              >> prone to splitting. Some red oak can be dripped in soapy water put
              >> mouth to the end and blow and make bubbles. With both use heavy
              >> sealing coats on the insides.
              >>
              >> Zebra and Wenge both exhibit long stringy grain can tend to splinter
              >> while turning. Wenge has hard and soft grain lines be careful when
              >> sanding not to get ruts from the soft grain betting sanded off deeper
              >> than the hard grains - Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow pine can do
              >> this same thing as well.
              >>
              >> Cumaru - I voted on this one earlier but better used for building a
              >> deck.
              >>
              >> Small holes and thick flutes are not a good combo if you want a
              >> louder
              >> flute. Small holes and thin walls will give you a very expressive
              >> flute however.
              >>
              >> Even holes size and spacing is not the best way to go for accurate
              >> cross fingering - although you are a new player as well - I would
              >> suggest you start now being more flexible with the hole arrangement
              >> because your preference might box you in later on. I" inch spacing is
              >> pretty tight target for a D especially on the bottom notes. Keep in
              >> mind the basics of flute design is a quite linear model as you go
              >> down
              >> from the middle keys things get longer, wider, and greater spaced as
              >> you go and above middle they get shorter, narrower, and less space
              >> between the hole. With ultra high flutes small mistakes are like big
              >> mistakes on a medium size flute.
              >>
              >> my nickels worth - Barry WC
              >>
              >> On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Wayne Greenway wrote:
              >>
              >>> Happy New Year!
              >>>
              >>> I just finished my first E flute. It looks great and sounds very
              >>> good.
              >>> I love the sound of the lower keyed flutes.
              >>> I finished the outer coating this weekend (water based Verathane)
              >>> and was surprised the difference in the voice of the finished flute
              >>> from the un-finished flute.
              >>> It sounds clearer and it's voice is a little stronger. A small issue
              >>> with hole # 1 cleared up too.
              >>> Small changes seem to have a big impact.
              >>>
              >>> I am now getting my ducks in a row for creating a D flute.
              >>>
              >>> I have some hardwoods and softer woods to choose from:
              >>> Black walnut
              >>> Cumaru- This was the wood I used for my first 2 piece flute. An oily
              >>> hardwood and a real learning experience in gluing prep(;
              >>> Zebrawood
              >>> Cherry
              >>> Wenge
              >>> Cedar
              >>> and White Oak
              >>>
              >>> I plan on making the bore 1-1/8"
              >>> Wall thickness will be ~3/16"
              >>> Bore should be ~ 20.25" long to start.
              >>> TSH: Width - ~ 9/16"
              >>> Length ~ 7/32"
              >>> Flue Depth ~1/32"
              >>> Wood?
              >>>
              >>> On my E flute I followed the Kieta Flute Making Manual very closely
              >>> and am pretty happy with the results.
              >>> The flute sounds great and is fun to play...and I made it (:
              >>> I have 1" spacing between the holes. Hole diameters vary quite a
              >>> bit. From ~ 0.25" - 0.35".
              >>> A few of the finger holes are 0.25" in diameter and the flute has a
              >>> soft voice.
              >>> I would like to get the hole size closer to 5/16" and get a little
              >>> better projection as I play a lot outdoors.
              >>> I do prefer the equal spacing (or as close as is reasonable) between
              >>> holes if at all possible. As I practice going from flute to flute
              >>> (different keys) I play more consistently.
              >>>
              >>> Suggestions anyone?
              >>>
              >>> I have one good suggestion with some good parameters on Flutopedia
              >>> but I don't quite understand all the parameters yet.
              >>> I'm working on it.
              >>>
              >>> Cheers!
              >>> Wayne
              >>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
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