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Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute

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  • Daniel Bingamon
    Everyone has a different way of doing things. I make the airstream in the flute, I have experimented a few times with doing it in the bird but not happy with
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Everyone has a different way of doing things.
      I make the airstream in the flute, I have
      experimented a few times with doing it in the
      bird but not happy with the results.

      Since I use a metal milling machine to make the
      windway, I thought I would share this method:

      I mount the body at a about 5-7 degree angle. I
      then measure the depth at the edge of the windway
      at 0.0425". Then I cut across north to south on
      the flute. The angle makes the windway really
      deep near the SAC and when I go across the TSH,
      the same cut makes the ramp was well. So, the
      floor is level with the blade on my flutes. I
      then file a 45 Deg chamfer on the end of the
      windway to allow the windsheet to expand when it
      crosses the blade - the majority of the filing is
      usually done after the two pieces are glued
      together - this way, I can file it until it sounds good.
      Also I cut a slope on the underside of the ramp
      the gradually blends with the bore. I call it the "underramp".
      The two come together as a nearly sharp but
      slightly blunt blade. The blade hardened with CA glue.
      I've done this regular flutes and flutes made from branches as well.

      At 11:11 PM 3/31/2011, you wrote:
      >
      >
      >Never saw any merit in flue in bird because to me, it does not split the
      >airstream properly...but many people do and they will contest this.
      >
      >When the airstream is split properly, it's as close as possible to the
      >center of the THS cutting edge or slightly below. Some of the air must go
      >over the top, and my idea is that it flows down the barrel of the flute, to
      >help the air (suction) come out of the finger hole. Because there are
      >fingers in the way, the top of the TSH ramp must also be at the right
      >angle...same as the bottom ramp must be close to 35-37 degrees. (My best
      >working ramp angle)
      >
      >Bradd
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: "Dave Wilson" <<mailto:davewill.com%40gmail.com>davewill.com@...>
      >To:
      ><<mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:45 PM
      >Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
      >
      > > Not sure I understand what you mean in your last paragraph, but for my
      > > education, is it a referral to the outer surface being horizontal and on
      > > the
      > > same plane as the nest going south of the tsh, and before the external
      > > rounding of the bore?
      > > Perhaps you can help me with this:-
      > > If the flue is in the flute, it follows that the tsh wedge is mid air
      > > stream of the flue, as per the pencil mark. However, if the flue is in the
      > > bird, then the main air stream cannot be in or onto the wedge, but
      > > slightly
      > > above it. To my understanding, a flue in the bird means that the main air
      > > stream is going above the wedge, and over the top of the flute, whereas a
      > > flue in the flute, directs, or splits the air stream into the bore?
      > > What are the merits of the two options?
      > > Thanks,
      > > Dave W
      > >
      > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk <
      > > <mailto:canadianmohawk%40yahoo.ca>canadianmohawk@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> John:
      > >>
      > >> There is an old trick, that I think came from Dusty. Put a pencil lead
      > >> (just the lead with a very sharp point) in the channel and rub the point
      > >> against the cutting edge. The mark on the edge will be the center of the
      > >> edge and middle of the airstream. File top and bottom to meet this mark.
      > >>
      > >> I use an old bent needle file, since the file just happens to be 1/32
      > >> thick. I can use it to determine the channel depth, plus, at the end of
      > >> the
      > >> channel, held up against the cutting edge, I can instantly see the
      > >> center.
      > >>
      > >> Another thing that I really found helpful and don't know why (someone
      > >> will)
      > >> is to make sure the top of the cutting edge is smoothed out over about
      > >> 1/2"
      > >> or more down the top of the tube. My theory is that the excess wind that
      > >> goes over the edge helps 'pull' the air through the finger hole...a kind
      > >> of
      > >> suction effect.
      > >>
      > >> Bradd
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> ----- Original Message -----
      > >> From: John Pink
      > >> To:
      > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
      > >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:30 AM
      > >> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
      > >>
      > >> Well, I plugged hole 3 and lowered hole 1. Noticable improvement. Not as
      > >> prone to loosing control of hole 1. I still have some tuning to do and am
      > >> thinking about toying with the cutting edge. I've thought about lowering
      > >> it
      > >> a bit to see how that does.
      > >>
      > >> --- In
      > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
      > "John Pink"
      > >> <pinkjohn57@...>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> > Thanks for everyones insight. I've been thinking, if I raise the
      > >> fundamental to an F#, I then need to address all the finger holes and
      > >> start
      > >> under cutting. the northern holes (4, 5 and 6) are at a comfortable size
      > >> and
      > >> sound really good.
      > >> > I do not think I want to do much more with the flue, THS or bird. maybe
      > >> > a
      > >> little tweaking.
      > >> > What I'm considering is keeping the F fund. and moving hole 1 south and
      > >> plugging hole 3. this should cause the holes (1, 2, and 3) to be larger.
      > >> > Calipers would be a beneficial investment. My thumb and forefinger are
      > >> just not that accurate.
      > >> >
      > >> > --- In
      > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
      > "John Pink"
      > >> > <pinkjohn57@>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Hi Barry, these are the answers to the questions you asked.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Wow, I took some close measurements and figured the bore to be 13/16
      > >> equivalent dia. At 17 3/16, that is a 21:1 ratio.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Yes, the wall at the sound hole is the same as the bore.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > I am using a fetish with a straight chimney, 3/8 high.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Holes 3,4,5 and 6 are at 5/16 right now.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > The tone is awesome and I would not be against moving holes if
      > >> > > needed.
      > >> I think I would like to keep the fundamental if possible.
      > >> > >
      > >> > > --- In
      > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com,
      > "John Pink"
      > >> <pinkjohn57@> wrote:
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Hi All, I just completed a branch flute and started to tune. I am
      > >> having a problem when I return to the fundamental. Ex. If I open 1, 2 and
      > >> 3,
      > >> then close all finger holes, I get an over blow real easy.but if I start
      > >> out
      > >> with all holes closed, I have to blow fairly hard for an over blow. I
      > >> also
      > >> noticed tonguing will create the high note.
      > >> > > > The bore is oval. I would guess it is about 19:1. The flue is 7/32
      > >> > > > x
      > >> 7/16 and the flue floor is 3/64. The bore wall varies and is 7/32 at hole
      > >> 1
      > >> and 1/4 at hole 6. All holes fall in the middle 1/3 of the bore. The
      > >> fundamental is an F. I looked at the cutting edge and all looks good.
      > >> Straight, centered, beveled. What might I be overlooking?
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Thanks, John
      > >> > > >
      > >> > >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Barry Higgins
      Bradd - I don t use it either but there just like the in-body there are ways to get the air stream to the correct place but creates a slightly different voice
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Bradd - I don't use it either but there just like the in-body there
        are ways to get the air stream to the correct place but creates a
        slightly different voice quality.
        Think of a nozzle on the end of a hose that can be adjusted turn or
        squeeze the nozzle and the stream expands contracts or gets
        redirected. A simple bevel downward on the end of the flue on plug is
        all it needs. the air stream will follow the point of least resistance
        and therefore cause the air to deflect down and hit the edge properly.
        In-Bird flue can also make a "flute save" easier b example if you
        really muck up the flue in-body then you have to do extreme work or
        make it kindling wood with the in-bird you just make a new fetish. If
        you have to shallow out a flue In-bird you just sand the bottom, in
        body you have to use a lot of care because the sound hole with beveled
        edge is most complete and chances are when you sand the nest area you
        will also be effectively lengthening the sound hole. Each design, In-
        Bird, In-Body, Spacer Plate each has advantages and disadvantage best
        thing to do is to choose one and understand to fully and how to
        manipulate the variables of the design to its greatest advantage.

        As to the end comment, it makes science sense that the excess air
        passing over the playing holes would cause a lower pressure and
        contribute something but I am sure it is not significant. There are
        many flute/whistle designs in the world of flutes that have awesome
        playing characteristics that can not even consider it an option like a
        transverse flute or even penny whistle (which is just an reverse of a
        NAF fipple) or my NAFs which have a recessed nest area.

        Barry Higgins




        On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk wrote:

        > Never saw any merit in flue in bird because to me, it does not split
        > the
        > airstream properly...but many people do and they will contest this.
        >
        > When the airstream is split properly, it's as close as possible to the
        > center of the THS cutting edge or slightly below. Some of the air
        > must go
        > over the top, and my idea is that it flows down the barrel of the
        > flute, to
        > help the air (suction) come out of the finger hole. Because there are
        > fingers in the way, the top of the TSH ramp must also be at the right
        > angle...same as the bottom ramp must be close to 35-37 degrees. (My
        > best
        > working ramp angle)
        >
        > Bradd
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Dave Wilson" <davewill.com@...>
        > To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:45 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
        >
        > > Not sure I understand what you mean in your last paragraph, but
        > for my
        > > education, is it a referral to the outer surface being horizontal
        > and on
        > > the
        > > same plane as the nest going south of the tsh, and before the
        > external
        > > rounding of the bore?
        > > Perhaps you can help me with this:-
        > > If the flue is in the flute, it follows that the tsh wedge is mid
        > air
        > > stream of the flue, as per the pencil mark. However, if the flue
        > is in the
        > > bird, then the main air stream cannot be in or onto the wedge, but
        > > slightly
        > > above it. To my understanding, a flue in the bird means that the
        > main air
        > > stream is going above the wedge, and over the top of the flute,
        > whereas a
        > > flue in the flute, directs, or splits the air stream into the bore?
        > > What are the merits of the two options?
        > > Thanks,
        > > Dave W
        > >
        > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk <
        > > canadianmohawk@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> John:
        > >>
        > >> There is an old trick, that I think came from Dusty. Put a pencil
        > lead
        > >> (just the lead with a very sharp point) in the channel and rub
        > the point
        > >> against the cutting edge. The mark on the edge will be the center
        > of the
        > >> edge and middle of the airstream. File top and bottom to meet
        > this mark.
        > >>
        > >> I use an old bent needle file, since the file just happens to be
        > 1/32
        > >> thick. I can use it to determine the channel depth, plus, at the
        > end of
        > >> the
        > >> channel, held up against the cutting edge, I can instantly see the
        > >> center.
        > >>
        > >> Another thing that I really found helpful and don't know why
        > (someone
        > >> will)
        > >> is to make sure the top of the cutting edge is smoothed out over
        > about
        > >> 1/2"
        > >> or more down the top of the tube. My theory is that the excess
        > wind that
        > >> goes over the edge helps 'pull' the air through the finger
        > hole...a kind
        > >> of
        > >> suction effect.
        > >>
        > >> Bradd
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> ----- Original Message -----
        > >> From: John Pink
        > >> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:30 AM
        > >> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
        > >>
        > >> Well, I plugged hole 3 and lowered hole 1. Noticable improvement.
        > Not as
        > >> prone to loosing control of hole 1. I still have some tuning to
        > do and am
        > >> thinking about toying with the cutting edge. I've thought about
        > lowering
        > >> it
        > >> a bit to see how that does.
        > >>
        > >> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
        > >> <pinkjohn57@...>
        > >> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Thanks for everyones insight. I've been thinking, if I raise the
        > >> fundamental to an F#, I then need to address all the finger holes
        > and
        > >> start
        > >> under cutting. the northern holes (4, 5 and 6) are at a
        > comfortable size
        > >> and
        > >> sound really good.
        > >> > I do not think I want to do much more with the flue, THS or
        > bird. maybe
        > >> > a
        > >> little tweaking.
        > >> > What I'm considering is keeping the F fund. and moving hole 1
        > south and
        > >> plugging hole 3. this should cause the holes (1, 2, and 3) to be
        > larger.
        > >> > Calipers would be a beneficial investment. My thumb and
        > forefinger are
        > >> just not that accurate.
        > >> >
        > >> > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
        > >> > <pinkjohn57@>
        > >> wrote:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Hi Barry, these are the answers to the questions you asked.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Wow, I took some close measurements and figured the bore to
        > be 13/16
        > >> equivalent dia. At 17 3/16, that is a 21:1 ratio.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Yes, the wall at the sound hole is the same as the bore.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > I am using a fetish with a straight chimney, 3/8 high.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Holes 3,4,5 and 6 are at 5/16 right now.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > The tone is awesome and I would not be against moving holes if
        > >> > > needed.
        > >> I think I would like to keep the fundamental if possible.
        > >> > >
        > >> > > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
        > >> <pinkjohn57@> wrote:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Hi All, I just completed a branch flute and started to
        > tune. I am
        > >> having a problem when I return to the fundamental. Ex. If I open
        > 1, 2 and
        > >> 3,
        > >> then close all finger holes, I get an over blow real easy.but if
        > I start
        > >> out
        > >> with all holes closed, I have to blow fairly hard for an over
        > blow. I
        > >> also
        > >> noticed tonguing will create the high note.
        > >> > > > The bore is oval. I would guess it is about 19:1. The flue
        > is 7/32
        > >> > > > x
        > >> 7/16 and the flue floor is 3/64. The bore wall varies and is 7/32
        > at hole
        > >> 1
        > >> and 1/4 at hole 6. All holes fall in the middle 1/3 of the bore.
        > The
        > >> fundamental is an F. I looked at the cutting edge and all looks
        > good.
        > >> Straight, centered, beveled. What might I be overlooking?
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Thanks, John
        > >> > > >
        > >> > >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bradd-CanadianMohawk
        Thank for the great explanation Barry. I do basically the same thing. With flue in body, a couple of swipes of the file at the SAC or TSH ends of the channel
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank for the great explanation Barry. I do basically the same thing. With
          flue in body, a couple of swipes of the file at the SAC or TSH ends of the
          channel can make quite a difference.

          It's hard to make plain to the young'uns (nothing to do with woodworking
          experience) how many flutes us old guys had to go through before a swipe or
          tweak made sense! I think I worked on one test flute for over a year,
          changing and modifying, trying, denying and plain just having a ball
          learning! No rush to make money!

          Bradd


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Barry Higgins" <barry@...>
          To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 8:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute


          > Bradd - I don't use it either but there just like the in-body there
          > are ways to get the air stream to the correct place but creates a
          > slightly different voice quality.
          > Think of a nozzle on the end of a hose that can be adjusted turn or
          > squeeze the nozzle and the stream expands contracts or gets
          > redirected. A simple bevel downward on the end of the flue on plug is
          > all it needs. the air stream will follow the point of least resistance
          > and therefore cause the air to deflect down and hit the edge properly.
          > In-Bird flue can also make a "flute save" easier b example if you
          > really muck up the flue in-body then you have to do extreme work or
          > make it kindling wood with the in-bird you just make a new fetish. If
          > you have to shallow out a flue In-bird you just sand the bottom, in
          > body you have to use a lot of care because the sound hole with beveled
          > edge is most complete and chances are when you sand the nest area you
          > will also be effectively lengthening the sound hole. Each design, In-
          > Bird, In-Body, Spacer Plate each has advantages and disadvantage best
          > thing to do is to choose one and understand to fully and how to
          > manipulate the variables of the design to its greatest advantage.
          >
          > As to the end comment, it makes science sense that the excess air
          > passing over the playing holes would cause a lower pressure and
          > contribute something but I am sure it is not significant. There are
          > many flute/whistle designs in the world of flutes that have awesome
          > playing characteristics that can not even consider it an option like a
          > transverse flute or even penny whistle (which is just an reverse of a
          > NAF fipple) or my NAFs which have a recessed nest area.
          >
          > Barry Higgins
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk wrote:
          >
          >> Never saw any merit in flue in bird because to me, it does not split
          >> the
          >> airstream properly...but many people do and they will contest this.
          >>
          >> When the airstream is split properly, it's as close as possible to the
          >> center of the THS cutting edge or slightly below. Some of the air
          >> must go
          >> over the top, and my idea is that it flows down the barrel of the
          >> flute, to
          >> help the air (suction) come out of the finger hole. Because there are
          >> fingers in the way, the top of the TSH ramp must also be at the right
          >> angle...same as the bottom ramp must be close to 35-37 degrees. (My
          >> best
          >> working ramp angle)
          >>
          >> Bradd
          >>
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: "Dave Wilson" <davewill.com@...>
          >> To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:45 PM
          >> Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
          >>
          >> > Not sure I understand what you mean in your last paragraph, but
          >> for my
          >> > education, is it a referral to the outer surface being horizontal
          >> and on
          >> > the
          >> > same plane as the nest going south of the tsh, and before the
          >> external
          >> > rounding of the bore?
          >> > Perhaps you can help me with this:-
          >> > If the flue is in the flute, it follows that the tsh wedge is mid
          >> air
          >> > stream of the flue, as per the pencil mark. However, if the flue
          >> is in the
          >> > bird, then the main air stream cannot be in or onto the wedge, but
          >> > slightly
          >> > above it. To my understanding, a flue in the bird means that the
          >> main air
          >> > stream is going above the wedge, and over the top of the flute,
          >> whereas a
          >> > flue in the flute, directs, or splits the air stream into the bore?
          >> > What are the merits of the two options?
          >> > Thanks,
          >> > Dave W
          >> >
          >> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk <
          >> > canadianmohawk@...> wrote:
          >> >
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >> John:
          >> >>
          >> >> There is an old trick, that I think came from Dusty. Put a pencil
          >> lead
          >> >> (just the lead with a very sharp point) in the channel and rub
          >> the point
          >> >> against the cutting edge. The mark on the edge will be the center
          >> of the
          >> >> edge and middle of the airstream. File top and bottom to meet
          >> this mark.
          >> >>
          >> >> I use an old bent needle file, since the file just happens to be
          >> 1/32
          >> >> thick. I can use it to determine the channel depth, plus, at the
          >> end of
          >> >> the
          >> >> channel, held up against the cutting edge, I can instantly see the
          >> >> center.
          >> >>
          >> >> Another thing that I really found helpful and don't know why
          >> (someone
          >> >> will)
          >> >> is to make sure the top of the cutting edge is smoothed out over
          >> about
          >> >> 1/2"
          >> >> or more down the top of the tube. My theory is that the excess
          >> wind that
          >> >> goes over the edge helps 'pull' the air through the finger
          >> hole...a kind
          >> >> of
          >> >> suction effect.
          >> >>
          >> >> Bradd
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> >> From: John Pink
          >> >> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
          >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:30 AM
          >> >> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
          >> >>
          >> >> Well, I plugged hole 3 and lowered hole 1. Noticable improvement.
          >> Not as
          >> >> prone to loosing control of hole 1. I still have some tuning to
          >> do and am
          >> >> thinking about toying with the cutting edge. I've thought about
          >> lowering
          >> >> it
          >> >> a bit to see how that does.
          >> >>
          >> >> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
          >> >> <pinkjohn57@...>
          >> >> wrote:
          >> >> >
          >> >> > Thanks for everyones insight. I've been thinking, if I raise the
          >> >> fundamental to an F#, I then need to address all the finger holes
          >> and
          >> >> start
          >> >> under cutting. the northern holes (4, 5 and 6) are at a
          >> comfortable size
          >> >> and
          >> >> sound really good.
          >> >> > I do not think I want to do much more with the flue, THS or
          >> bird. maybe
          >> >> > a
          >> >> little tweaking.
          >> >> > What I'm considering is keeping the F fund. and moving hole 1
          >> south and
          >> >> plugging hole 3. this should cause the holes (1, 2, and 3) to be
          >> larger.
          >> >> > Calipers would be a beneficial investment. My thumb and
          >> forefinger are
          >> >> just not that accurate.
          >> >> >
          >> >> > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
          >> >> > <pinkjohn57@>
          >> >> wrote:
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > Hi Barry, these are the answers to the questions you asked.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > Wow, I took some close measurements and figured the bore to
          >> be 13/16
          >> >> equivalent dia. At 17 3/16, that is a 21:1 ratio.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > Yes, the wall at the sound hole is the same as the bore.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > I am using a fetish with a straight chimney, 3/8 high.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > Holes 3,4,5 and 6 are at 5/16 right now.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > The tone is awesome and I would not be against moving holes if
          >> >> > > needed.
          >> >> I think I would like to keep the fundamental if possible.
          >> >> > >
          >> >> > > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
          >> >> <pinkjohn57@> wrote:
          >> >> > > >
          >> >> > > > Hi All, I just completed a branch flute and started to
          >> tune. I am
          >> >> having a problem when I return to the fundamental. Ex. If I open
          >> 1, 2 and
          >> >> 3,
          >> >> then close all finger holes, I get an over blow real easy.but if
          >> I start
          >> >> out
          >> >> with all holes closed, I have to blow fairly hard for an over
          >> blow. I
          >> >> also
          >> >> noticed tonguing will create the high note.
          >> >> > > > The bore is oval. I would guess it is about 19:1. The flue
          >> is 7/32
          >> >> > > > x
          >> >> 7/16 and the flue floor is 3/64. The bore wall varies and is 7/32
          >> at hole
          >> >> 1
          >> >> and 1/4 at hole 6. All holes fall in the middle 1/3 of the bore.
          >> The
          >> >> fundamental is an F. I looked at the cutting edge and all looks
          >> good.
          >> >> Straight, centered, beveled. What might I be overlooking?
          >> >> > > >
          >> >> > > > Thanks, John
          >> >> > > >
          >> >> > >
          >> >> >
          >> >>
          >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > ------------------------------------
          >> >
          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Jeremy
          I too make the majority of my flues in the flute body, but I do make them in the block sometimes as well. I ve seen four methods -- flue in body, flue in
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I too make the majority of my flues in the flute body, but I do make them in the block sometimes as well. I've seen four methods -- flue in body, flue in block, flue half in body and half in block and spacer. All of these can make a beautifully voiced flute. I hand carve or burn (depending on material) my flues, so making slight angle changes is simple and as Barry notes, it is not hard to adjust the airstream to get it where you want it when making the flue. The one exception to this is perhaps the spacer method, although some slight beveling at the north end of the TSH can still serve to redirect the airstream down a little. I do find that flutes with spacers tend to have a slightly different voice, though.

            The reason I make most of my flutes with the flue in body is more of a convenience thing -- it is the design which is least affected by slight misalignment of the block (getting bumped or something). Even if the block is a touch off, the flue itself is still pointing the air in the right direction -- the front top edge is just a little off. I still put the flue in the block if I am making the flute from a thin natural material and don't have enough thickness to the flute body to feel good about cutting a flue into it without going through. I'll also put it in the block sometimes when I teach, because I offer my students the choice of which way they want to do it.

            As I said, I've occasionally seen people put the flue half in the block and half in the body, with the idea that this will really center the airstream. The flutes sound fine, but this is *really* prone to alignment problems, and there are lots of easier ways to center the air on the splitting edge.

            -Jeremy


            --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Barry Higgins <barry@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bradd - I don't use it either but there just like the in-body there
            > are ways to get the air stream to the correct place but creates a
            > slightly different voice quality.
            > Think of a nozzle on the end of a hose that can be adjusted turn or
            > squeeze the nozzle and the stream expands contracts or gets
            > redirected. A simple bevel downward on the end of the flue on plug is
            > all it needs. the air stream will follow the point of least resistance
            > and therefore cause the air to deflect down and hit the edge properly.
            > In-Bird flue can also make a "flute save" easier b example if you
            > really muck up the flue in-body then you have to do extreme work or
            > make it kindling wood with the in-bird you just make a new fetish. If
            > you have to shallow out a flue In-bird you just sand the bottom, in
            > body you have to use a lot of care because the sound hole with beveled
            > edge is most complete and chances are when you sand the nest area you
            > will also be effectively lengthening the sound hole. Each design, In-
            > Bird, In-Body, Spacer Plate each has advantages and disadvantage best
            > thing to do is to choose one and understand to fully and how to
            > manipulate the variables of the design to its greatest advantage.
            >
            > As to the end comment, it makes science sense that the excess air
            > passing over the playing holes would cause a lower pressure and
            > contribute something but I am sure it is not significant. There are
            > many flute/whistle designs in the world of flutes that have awesome
            > playing characteristics that can not even consider it an option like a
            > transverse flute or even penny whistle (which is just an reverse of a
            > NAF fipple) or my NAFs which have a recessed nest area.
            >
            > Barry Higgins
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk wrote:
            >
            > > Never saw any merit in flue in bird because to me, it does not split
            > > the
            > > airstream properly...but many people do and they will contest this.
            > >
            > > When the airstream is split properly, it's as close as possible to the
            > > center of the THS cutting edge or slightly below. Some of the air
            > > must go
            > > over the top, and my idea is that it flows down the barrel of the
            > > flute, to
            > > help the air (suction) come out of the finger hole. Because there are
            > > fingers in the way, the top of the TSH ramp must also be at the right
            > > angle...same as the bottom ramp must be close to 35-37 degrees. (My
            > > best
            > > working ramp angle)
            > >
            > > Bradd
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Dave Wilson" <davewill.com@...>
            > > To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:45 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
            > >
            > > > Not sure I understand what you mean in your last paragraph, but
            > > for my
            > > > education, is it a referral to the outer surface being horizontal
            > > and on
            > > > the
            > > > same plane as the nest going south of the tsh, and before the
            > > external
            > > > rounding of the bore?
            > > > Perhaps you can help me with this:-
            > > > If the flue is in the flute, it follows that the tsh wedge is mid
            > > air
            > > > stream of the flue, as per the pencil mark. However, if the flue
            > > is in the
            > > > bird, then the main air stream cannot be in or onto the wedge, but
            > > > slightly
            > > > above it. To my understanding, a flue in the bird means that the
            > > main air
            > > > stream is going above the wedge, and over the top of the flute,
            > > whereas a
            > > > flue in the flute, directs, or splits the air stream into the bore?
            > > > What are the merits of the two options?
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > Dave W
            > > >
            > > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Bradd-CanadianMohawk <
            > > > canadianmohawk@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> John:
            > > >>
            > > >> There is an old trick, that I think came from Dusty. Put a pencil
            > > lead
            > > >> (just the lead with a very sharp point) in the channel and rub
            > > the point
            > > >> against the cutting edge. The mark on the edge will be the center
            > > of the
            > > >> edge and middle of the airstream. File top and bottom to meet
            > > this mark.
            > > >>
            > > >> I use an old bent needle file, since the file just happens to be
            > > 1/32
            > > >> thick. I can use it to determine the channel depth, plus, at the
            > > end of
            > > >> the
            > > >> channel, held up against the cutting edge, I can instantly see the
            > > >> center.
            > > >>
            > > >> Another thing that I really found helpful and don't know why
            > > (someone
            > > >> will)
            > > >> is to make sure the top of the cutting edge is smoothed out over
            > > about
            > > >> 1/2"
            > > >> or more down the top of the tube. My theory is that the excess
            > > wind that
            > > >> goes over the edge helps 'pull' the air through the finger
            > > hole...a kind
            > > >> of
            > > >> suction effect.
            > > >>
            > > >> Bradd
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> ----- Original Message -----
            > > >> From: John Pink
            > > >> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
            > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:30 AM
            > > >> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: branch flute
            > > >>
            > > >> Well, I plugged hole 3 and lowered hole 1. Noticable improvement.
            > > Not as
            > > >> prone to loosing control of hole 1. I still have some tuning to
            > > do and am
            > > >> thinking about toying with the cutting edge. I've thought about
            > > lowering
            > > >> it
            > > >> a bit to see how that does.
            > > >>
            > > >> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
            > > >> <pinkjohn57@>
            > > >> wrote:
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Thanks for everyones insight. I've been thinking, if I raise the
            > > >> fundamental to an F#, I then need to address all the finger holes
            > > and
            > > >> start
            > > >> under cutting. the northern holes (4, 5 and 6) are at a
            > > comfortable size
            > > >> and
            > > >> sound really good.
            > > >> > I do not think I want to do much more with the flue, THS or
            > > bird. maybe
            > > >> > a
            > > >> little tweaking.
            > > >> > What I'm considering is keeping the F fund. and moving hole 1
            > > south and
            > > >> plugging hole 3. this should cause the holes (1, 2, and 3) to be
            > > larger.
            > > >> > Calipers would be a beneficial investment. My thumb and
            > > forefinger are
            > > >> just not that accurate.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
            > > >> > <pinkjohn57@>
            > > >> wrote:
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Hi Barry, these are the answers to the questions you asked.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Wow, I took some close measurements and figured the bore to
            > > be 13/16
            > > >> equivalent dia. At 17 3/16, that is a 21:1 ratio.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Yes, the wall at the sound hole is the same as the bore.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I am using a fetish with a straight chimney, 3/8 high.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Holes 3,4,5 and 6 are at 5/16 right now.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > The tone is awesome and I would not be against moving holes if
            > > >> > > needed.
            > > >> I think I would like to keep the fundamental if possible.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "John Pink"
            > > >> <pinkjohn57@> wrote:
            > > >> > > >
            > > >> > > > Hi All, I just completed a branch flute and started to
            > > tune. I am
            > > >> having a problem when I return to the fundamental. Ex. If I open
            > > 1, 2 and
            > > >> 3,
            > > >> then close all finger holes, I get an over blow real easy.but if
            > > I start
            > > >> out
            > > >> with all holes closed, I have to blow fairly hard for an over
            > > blow. I
            > > >> also
            > > >> noticed tonguing will create the high note.
            > > >> > > > The bore is oval. I would guess it is about 19:1. The flue
            > > is 7/32
            > > >> > > > x
            > > >> 7/16 and the flue floor is 3/64. The bore wall varies and is 7/32
            > > at hole
            > > >> 1
            > > >> and 1/4 at hole 6. All holes fall in the middle 1/3 of the bore.
            > > The
            > > >> fundamental is an F. I looked at the cutting edge and all looks
            > > good.
            > > >> Straight, centered, beveled. What might I be overlooking?
            > > >> > > >
            > > >> > > > Thanks, John
            > > >> > > >
            > > >> > >
            > > >> >
            > > >>
            > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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