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Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Tuning By Burning: Tools?

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  • cycoblazer@cox.net
    Eric, If you plan to do burning like this inside an apartment it will not be a good idea at all. This would be good only in an outside or very well ventilated
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 1, 2010
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      Eric,
      If you plan to do burning like this inside an apartment it will not be a good idea at all. This would be good only in an outside or very well ventilated area. When doing this there is a lot of smoke and would not work well at all in an apartment.

      Be safe,
      Dennis







      ---- Erec <type3secretion@...> wrote:
      > wow, Donn and Dennis - thanks very much for the detailed advice. One complication is my living in an NYC apartment with fire codes etc. So heating the rods is not as straightforward as other places. But you've given me a lot to begin with - thanks!
      >
      > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "tejasmed" <tejasmed@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Eric:
      > >
      > > If you will go into the files section and look for Branch Flute basic tools Tejas and look at the picture of the burning rods and hand cone tools, it might be a help.
      > >
      > > I was taught burning rod technique by Mike Jones here locallly. Mike mostly crafts bamboo flutes, but after a year of my making branch flutes from all sorts of limbs, and having lots of trouble with the hanging chads left after using drill bits, burning was the way to go.
      > > I just read Dennis' suggestions, and they will get you there with no problem.
      > > Mike and I made sets of our buring rods out of the cold steel rods you buy out of the bin at Lowes where all the assorted steel rods are.
      > > I works great if you have a couple of guys from your flute circle to go together with you, as one of those long rods of each size will make several rods.
      > > Do not try to use aluminum, brass, copper, or softer steel....it can and sometimes will melt on you or droop. Use the cheap cold steel. Stainless would be great if you could get it....but too expensive to buy.
      > > We took a round dowel and cut it into sections for handles. We made a 45 degree rig to clamp the dowel in upright to center the hole drilled into the handle.
      > > For each of the sizes, cut an adequate length, as Dennis mentions....so the heat will not just run up the rod and burn the handle. I opted for longer rods to work with.
      > > I used a grinder to round off and point the burning end tips. You can use your bench sander to refine the ends. Wear heavy gloves, the rods get hot when grinding or sanding smooth.
      > > Use a file or edge of a grinding stone to roughen the part that will go in the handle. Use epoxy to set the rod in the handle.
      > > I did a little more refinement and added a metal washer to finish off the facing of the insert point.
      > > A few swipes on the disk sander and the end was rounded over and feels better to work with.
      > > As Dennis mentions, start with what ever rod is smaller to begin a hole. I may have many rods, but I seldom use the finest rod unless I am making a mini bamboo flute, but the next size up in the picture is what I start with the most.
      > > Being a senior, sometimes the hands are not real steady, so I found another piece of metal with a small V shape on the end. After heating up the rod, I hold the handle, then use the other hand holding the rod secure in the V shape to help guide it to the exact spot needed.
      > >
      > > I have both the butane hand soldering jet and the self egniting jet.
      > > But both will adapt to a hose off of a tank.
      > > Depending on your space and work shop, you can use the little or big bottle.
      > > I prefer the big tank on the floor, the long hose. and the hose and the adjustable jet end is tie wrapped to a 1 by 2 that is pipe clamped to the edge of the work bench next to me.
      > > Most of the time Lowes and Home Depot will only sell the solder jet rigs, but will not sell the flame spreaders. We had to go to a general hardware store to find the flame spreader attachment...Down here it is Ace Hardware.
      > > The spreader helps with spreading the heat better when heating up the end of the rod.
      > > It is a good idea to have a holding device for the project you are going to burn.
      > > Some people have a special vice with soft protector plates on the faces not to mar the blank.
      > > Others have a rig...or jig that is a long V or grouve to set the piece in. Then a method like a bungie cord or two to hold the blank in place.
      > > While it may seem like defeating your purpose, sometimes a very fine drill is used to locate for sure where you want to place a hole.
      > > I mention this, because handling a super hot burning rod is a bit intimidating and you sometimes just don't hit the exact spot you really wanted. It does take steady hands, patience and training.
      > > When the rod makes contact, twirl it around to keep the heat distributed. Keep the rod straight up and down. Do not apply heavy pressure.. Let the burning be the carry through.
      > > I have watched Mike sometimes forget his strength and put too much pressure on the rod, and when it burned through the first side, it crashed against the inner wall and cracked it, or even went through it. Also, if you don't pull back right away, it will burn a dent on the contact point of the inner wall.
      > > You will get better at it as you practice with different woods and different size rods.
      > >
      > > Normally, for the branch flutes of the medium sizes, you will only need 3 sizes. The most I will ever use the largest of the three is for hole #3.
      > >
      > > Dennis mentions the use of the stone cone to help enlarge the hole.
      > > We use a pointed bullet pink stone in the dremel.
      > > Say you used the first two rods and the hole was not quite big enough, but you don't want to use the biggest rod. Then lightly use the stone cone. Test the frequency. Still not enough....try a little more. If I am still about 5 to 10 cents to go, then I use a cutter bit and take off a little of the north under side of the hole and that gets me in.
      > > You will find your own tricks and others might have some better. But don't just reach for the next bigger size rod. You might have to do a bunch of epoxy build up to get the freq back down.
      > >
      > > Also in the files is a picture of our hand cone tools. Hobby Lobby has round wooden balls that will hold the stone bits and they handle nicely in your hand.
      > > Get two sizes of shanks of the cones at Harbor Freight. They come in sets and are usually on sale once a month.
      > > These stone cones will help to clean and champfer your playing holes. a beveled playing hole is a matter of personal taste, but most players I know prefer them because they allow better air seal and control of notes. They are a lot more comfortable to play. Use the large round ball stone last to smooth the final edge.
      > >
      > > That should get you started. Get with Dennis and Bradd and they will help you refine your technique for hole finishing.
      > >
      > > Good Luck
      > >
      > > Donn Shands
      > > Tejas Medicineman
      > > Sugar Land, TX
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
    • Andre' St Pierre
      To keep things simpler and less expensive, I do a simple combination of Burning/drilling that might work better for you in your NYC apartment. For many of the
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 1, 2010
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        To keep things simpler and less expensive, I do a simple combination of Burning/drilling that might work better for you in your NYC apartment. For many of the reasons mentioned, I also like the look and final results of burned holes, but I do not have burning rods. As an experiment, before I invested the time and money into burning rods, I tried the following technique that has worked well for me in making several flutes from a variety of woods and bamboo. I inititially DRILL a small starter hole, as always, start with a hole much smaller than you will want the finished hole to be. I then gradually expand the hole with an electric wood burning tool. You can get a variety of tips that will work for making holes of various sizes. To make very small adjustments, you can use the dremel bits as suggested before or you can use an unheated drill bit, just twisting it by hand to scrape the edges of a burned hole. The edges of the burned hole are much softer than the raw wood or bamboo and will scrape very easily.

        Andy Talley
      • William Croley
        I might have mentioned it before, but if you need holes a quarter of an inch or smaller, you can use a dremel rotary tool and a rotary file.  The file I use
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2, 2010
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          I might have mentioned it before, but if you need holes a quarter of an inch or smaller, you can use a dremel rotary tool and a rotary file.  The file I use is cone shaped with a fine tooth, and I use it on a high speed setting, so that it doesn't grind out the holes so much as burn them larger as I go.  As I want a hole to get a sharper tone, I simply push the tool in a little deeper.  I go in small increments and blow the flute against a digital tuner as I go.
          The truth is in the soundhole!
          William

          --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Andre' St Pierre <andre1750@...> wrote:


          From: Andre' St Pierre <andre1750@...>
          Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Tuning By Burning: Tools?
          To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 11:30 AM


           



          To keep things simpler and less expensive, I do a simple combination of Burning/drilling that might work better for you in your NYC apartment. For many of the reasons mentioned, I also like the look and final results of burned holes, but I do not have burning rods. As an experiment, before I invested the time and money into burning rods, I tried the following technique that has worked well for me in making several flutes from a variety of woods and bamboo. I inititially DRILL a small starter hole, as always, start with a hole much smaller than you will want the finished hole to be. I then gradually expand the hole with an electric wood burning tool. You can get a variety of tips that will work for making holes of various sizes. To make very small adjustments, you can use the dremel bits as suggested before or you can use an unheated drill bit, just twisting it by hand to scrape the edges of a burned hole. The edges of the burned hole are much softer than
          the raw wood or bamboo and will scrape very easily.

          Andy Talley











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Erec
          These are all great ideas and advice. I do have a terrace space, but until late spring, I can t see how I could tune outside in the weather here.
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 6, 2010
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            These are all great ideas and advice. I do have a terrace space, but until late spring, I can't see how I could tune outside in the weather here.

            --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Andre' St Pierre" <andre1750@...> wrote:
            >
            > To keep things simpler and less expensive, I do a simple combination of Burning/drilling that might work better for you in your NYC apartment. For many of the reasons mentioned, I also like the look and final results of burned holes, but I do not have burning rods. As an experiment, before I invested the time and money into burning rods, I tried the following technique that has worked well for me in making several flutes from a variety of woods and bamboo. I inititially DRILL a small starter hole, as always, start with a hole much smaller than you will want the finished hole to be. I then gradually expand the hole with an electric wood burning tool. You can get a variety of tips that will work for making holes of various sizes. To make very small adjustments, you can use the dremel bits as suggested before or you can use an unheated drill bit, just twisting it by hand to scrape the edges of a burned hole. The edges of the burned hole are much softer than the raw wood or bamboo and will scrape very easily.
            >
            > Andy Talley
            >
          • Bradd-CanadianMohawk
            If you have a fan above the stove, there is no problem burning inside! You already have some great advice on how to do it. But here is another tip: If you
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 6, 2010
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              If you have a fan above the stove, there is no problem burning inside!

              You already have some great advice on how to do it. But here is another tip: If you don't want to use power tools, and don't want to purchase a small hand drill, then just get the small drill holder from a tap and die set!

              The woodburning iron is the best bet.
              Bradd

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Erec
              To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:17 PM
              Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Tuning By Burning: Tools?



              These are all great ideas and advice. I do have a terrace space, but until late spring, I can't see how I could tune outside in the weather here.

              --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Andre' St Pierre" <andre1750@...> wrote:
              >
              > To keep things simpler and less expensive, I do a simple combination of Burning/drilling that might work better for you in your NYC apartment. For many of the reasons mentioned, I also like the look and final results of burned holes, but I do not have burning rods. As an experiment, before I invested the time and money into burning rods, I tried the following technique that has worked well for me in making several flutes from a variety of woods and bamboo. I inititially DRILL a small starter hole, as always, start with a hole much smaller than you will want the finished hole to be. I then gradually expand the hole with an electric wood burning tool. You can get a variety of tips that will work for making holes of various sizes. To make very small adjustments, you can use the dremel bits as suggested before or you can use an unheated drill bit, just twisting it by hand to scrape the edges of a burned hole. The edges of the burned hole are much softer than the raw wood or bamboo and will scrape very easily.
              >
              > Andy Talley
              >





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