Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Albuquerque to Milwaukee (tuning question)

Expand Messages
  • Will Schmit
    It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference would amount to a
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
      major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
      would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between Albuquerque (5280
      feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from 20%
      humidity to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am
      making a NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
      flooring), and I want it to be right.

      I plan to incorporate a tuning slide (which will have 50 cents +-
      range. I will use the conversion tables supplied on the web to tune
      it as if I were in Milwaukee. I will then test it with the slide
      adjusted to 5000 feet and A-440

      I can play my Yamaha silver flute in tune in Milwaukee
      Sir James Galway has no pitch problem here or in Denver (same
      conditions). I have played with Trevor Wye (here in Albuquerque).
      Trevor is a flute mechanics geek like me --- I only wish I were making
      NAFs when I was talking to him.

      Question:
      Is this all BS?
      Is it possible because a Boehme flute has the tuning slide?
      Will my tuning slide overcome this problem?
      Do well-meaning flute makers here in the land of " The Eight Northern
      Pueblos" just accept that a flute sold on e-bay will be WAY out of
      tune in the rest of the country (world)?
    • Daniel Bingamon
      Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning. Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning adjustments for NAFlutomat
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning.
        Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning
        adjustments for NAFlutomat and other tuning programs. Temperature affects
        air density, humidity and pressure have effects as well.

        Regarding the altitude, the function of altitude (thinning air, lower
        absolute pressure) that affects tuning to some point.
        Now I say "absolute pressure" instead of barometric pressure because
        barometric is corrected to sea level. It is not the actual pressure at the
        location. Airplanes use the barometric pressure because it references sea
        level. Once you dial in a locations barometric pressure in an altimeter,
        the true pressure compared to the barometric pressure is used to calculate
        altitude.

        Also keep in mind, dense or heavy air is cold dry air. Hot and moist air
        is less dense. Many people think that hot air or moist air is dense. The
        proof is that clouds are over our heads because the air is less dense -
        this is why moisture goes up to join the clouds.

        The portion of vibrating air in the flute that comes out the tail of the
        flute and open toneholes into the room meet the rooms relatively stable air
        after going a certain distance from the flute. The wall of air in the room
        is like a spring that helps the flute reflect some air back into it and
        makes the flute function. This spring effect also changes with air
        density. How much it changes, I am not certain.

        At 12:28 PM 4/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:

        >It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
        >major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
        >would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between Albuquerque (5280
        >feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from 20%
        >humidity to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am
        >making a NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
        >flooring), and I want it to be right.
        >
        >I plan to incorporate a tuning slide (which will have 50 cents +-
        >range. I will use the conversion tables supplied on the web to tune
        >it as if I were in Milwaukee. I will then test it with the slide
        >adjusted to 5000 feet and A-440
        >
        >I can play my Yamaha silver flute in tune in Milwaukee
        >Sir James Galway has no pitch problem here or in Denver (same
        >conditions). I have played with Trevor Wye (here in Albuquerque).
        >Trevor is a flute mechanics geek like me --- I only wish I were making
        >NAFs when I was talking to him.
        >
        >Question:
        >Is this all BS?
        >Is it possible because a Boehme flute has the tuning slide?
        >Will my tuning slide overcome this problem?
        >Do well-meaning flute makers here in the land of " The Eight Northern
        >Pueblos" just accept that a flute sold on e-bay will be WAY out of
        >tune in the rest of the country (world)?
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Jones
        There was a thread of discussion on this exact topic not to long ago. The bottom line is that any part of the formulas that use air pressure for frequency
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          There was a thread of discussion on this exact topic not to long ago. The
          bottom line is that any part of the formulas that use air pressure for
          frequency change get canceled out so there is no perceptible difference in
          tuning caused by altitude (pressure change). The very major component that
          will change tuning is the temperature. Always tune your instruments for 72
          degrees F. and you should have no problem going from one location to another.

          Mike Jones

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > Daniel Bingamon
          > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:46 AM
          > To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Albuquerque to
          > Milwaukee (tuning question)
          >
          > Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning.
          > Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning
          > adjustments for NAFlutomat and other tuning programs.
          > Temperature affects
          > air density, humidity and pressure have effects as well.
          >
          > Regarding the altitude, the function of altitude (thinning
          > air, lower absolute pressure) that affects tuning to some point.
          > Now I say "absolute pressure" instead of barometric pressure
          > because barometric is corrected to sea level. It is not the
          > actual pressure at the location. Airplanes use the
          > barometric pressure because it references sea level. Once
          > you dial in a locations barometric pressure in an altimeter,
          > the true pressure compared to the barometric pressure is used
          > to calculate altitude.

          > At 12:28 PM 4/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
          >
          > >It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
          > >major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
          > >would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between
          > Albuquerque (5280
          > >feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from
          > 20% humidity
          > >to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am making a
          > >NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
          > flooring), and
          > >I want it to be right.
        • bob salmon
          Hi, A Doctor friend of mine has maybe a half dozen Swampfox flutes, these are made in Georgia, we live in British Columbia Canada, two extremely different
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, A Doctor friend of mine has maybe a half dozen Swampfox flutes, these are made in Georgia, we live in British Columbia Canada, two extremely different climates. These flutes are right on the money, as far as tuning goes, they've been checked with a strobe tuner. Bob

            Mike Jones <jonesmr@...> wrote: There was a thread of discussion on this exact topic not to long ago. The
            bottom line is that any part of the formulas that use air pressure for
            frequency change get canceled out so there is no perceptible difference in
            tuning caused by altitude (pressure change). The very major component that
            will change tuning is the temperature. Always tune your instruments for 72
            degrees F. and you should have no problem going from one location to another.

            Mike Jones

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > Daniel Bingamon
            > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:46 AM
            > To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Albuquerque to
            > Milwaukee (tuning question)
            >
            > Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning.
            > Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning
            > adjustments for NAFlutomat and other tuning programs.
            > Temperature affects
            > air density, humidity and pressure have effects as well.
            >
            > Regarding the altitude, the function of altitude (thinning
            > air, lower absolute pressure) that affects tuning to some point.
            > Now I say "absolute pressure" instead of barometric pressure
            > because barometric is corrected to sea level. It is not the
            > actual pressure at the location. Airplanes use the
            > barometric pressure because it references sea level. Once
            > you dial in a locations barometric pressure in an altimeter,
            > the true pressure compared to the barometric pressure is used
            > to calculate altitude.

            > At 12:28 PM 4/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
            >
            > >It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
            > >major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
            > >would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between
            > Albuquerque (5280
            > >feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from
            > 20% humidity
            > >to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am making a
            > >NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
            > flooring), and
            > >I want it to be right.






            ---------------------------------
            Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Daniel Bingamon
            Some flutes are very precisely tuned, And then there are flutes that are not tuned and were never intended to be tuned by their maker. Some flutes are designed
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Some flutes are very precisely tuned,
              And then there are flutes that are not tuned and were never intended to be
              tuned by their maker.

              Some flutes are designed for native ceremonial practices (varies with
              tribes), these flutes are not necessarily tuned to a western scale and they
              are not made by any machine tools.

              At 01:23 PM 4/1/2007 -0400, you wrote:

              >Hi, A Doctor friend of mine has maybe a half dozen Swampfox flutes, these
              >are made in Georgia, we live in British Columbia Canada, two extremely
              >different climates. These flutes are right on the money, as far as tuning
              >goes, they've been checked with a strobe tuner. Bob
              >
              >Mike Jones <<mailto:jonesmr%40sbcglobal.net>jonesmr@...> wrote:
              >There was a thread of discussion on this exact topic not to long ago. The
              >bottom line is that any part of the formulas that use air pressure for
              >frequency change get canceled out so there is no perceptible difference in
              >tuning caused by altitude (pressure change). The very major component that
              >will change tuning is the temperature. Always tune your instruments for 72
              >degrees F. and you should have no problem going from one location to another.
              >
              >Mike Jones
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From:
              > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > > [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > > Daniel Bingamon
              > > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:46 AM
              > > To:
              > <mailto:nativeflutewoodworking%40yahoogroups.com>nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Albuquerque to
              > > Milwaukee (tuning question)
              > >
              > > Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning.
              > > Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning
              > > adjustments for NAFlutomat and other tuning programs.
              > > Temperature affects
              > > air density, humidity and pressure have effects as well.
              > >
              > > Regarding the altitude, the function of altitude (thinning
              > > air, lower absolute pressure) that affects tuning to some point.
              > > Now I say "absolute pressure" instead of barometric pressure
              > > because barometric is corrected to sea level. It is not the
              > > actual pressure at the location. Airplanes use the
              > > barometric pressure because it references sea level. Once
              > > you dial in a locations barometric pressure in an altimeter,
              > > the true pressure compared to the barometric pressure is used
              > > to calculate altitude.
              >
              > > At 12:28 PM 4/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
              > >
              > > >It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
              > > >major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
              > > >would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between
              > > Albuquerque (5280
              > > >feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from
              > > 20% humidity
              > > >to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am making a
              > > >NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
              > > flooring), and
              > > >I want it to be right.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >---------------------------------
              >Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • moosewinds_mike
              If you re looking, message 30742 was part of that thread. Mike
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                If you're looking, message 30742 was part of that thread.

                Mike
              • Will Schmit
                Thank you all for a spirited response. Forgive me for digressing. I read moosewinds_mike s message pointing to a previous post. Very helpful.....which led me
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thank you all for a spirited response.
                  Forgive me for digressing.

                  I read moosewinds_mike's message pointing to a previous post. Very
                  helpful.....which led me to go looking for something I saw years ago
                  on the web. It was a guy sitting in a folding chair in a dried-up
                  puddle playing a tin whistle. I believe (thinking back) that the
                  reason it was relevant was that he was doing a pitch experiment by
                  playing his whistle at the lowest point of the USA (Death Valley, or
                  was it the Salton sea?).

                  I believe everything I have heard in this thread (and am satisfied
                  with the answers), ***BUT*** because I am a geek, I had to go back to
                  find relevance in something I had seen in a different context. In
                  doing so, I stumbled across your post on this same subject:
                  http://www.mimf.com/archives/wind_math.htm

                  In that post you said:
                  (quote)
                  In order to sound properly, you should keep the length to pipe vs bore
                  diameter between 24:1 through 30:1. I like to used between 24 & 26.
                  (end quote)

                  I was of the opinion that we (NAF flute makers) were looking for a
                  ratio for length to bore fluctuating somewhere around 18-20 to 1. My
                  historic research points toward 1850's conical flutes which the
                  standard (Clinton) was 450mm long and 19mm (standard for modern
                  Boehme) at the slide and 12.5mm at the bell.
                  Hmmm.....???? 450/19=23 and 450/12.5=36 a bit high?

                  You then use a calculation that I have never seen:
                  L = L - ((0.3 * d) + (0.3 * D))
                  This is the calculation I have been looking for. It will help me to
                  calculate the adjustment needed for a conical bore.

                  You see, this flute will (hopefully) be modeled after a Boehme C
                  flute, which is conical. I don't know just how I will use flutomat to
                  find the hole location/size/length. Maybe when I get the whole thing
                  blueprinted, (if you don't mind) I would love to "run it past you".

                  I accept your assertion that many flutes never were, nor will ever be
                  "in tune" from the standpoint of a "western" scale. That having been
                  said, I am free to "be wrong" from a rigid scale. The consensus is
                  that I will be the only one that knows that it was designed as a C
                  (A-440) concert scale flute, and it is conical to be in tune on the
                  second octave. Everyone in Milwaukee will have to make up their own
                  minds.

                  As for hot air and it's density....
                  I watched 30 hot air balloons pass the house this morning (not a one
                  of them was playing a flute). half a dozen to a dozen is typical for
                  Albuquerque on a spring weekend. Must have been an event.

                  Thanks again,
                  Will




                  --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Bingamon
                  <daniel@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Temperature poses the greatest amount of change in flute tuning.
                  > Many of us try to tune our flutes to 70-72 Deg F. There are tuning
                  > adjustments for NAFlutomat and other tuning programs. Temperature
                  affects
                  > air density, humidity and pressure have effects as well.
                  >
                  > Regarding the altitude, the function of altitude (thinning air, lower
                  > absolute pressure) that affects tuning to some point.
                  > Now I say "absolute pressure" instead of barometric pressure because
                  > barometric is corrected to sea level. It is not the actual pressure
                  at the
                  > location. Airplanes use the barometric pressure because it
                  references sea
                  > level. Once you dial in a locations barometric pressure in an
                  altimeter,
                  > the true pressure compared to the barometric pressure is used to
                  calculate
                  > altitude.
                  >
                  > Also keep in mind, dense or heavy air is cold dry air. Hot and
                  moist air
                  > is less dense. Many people think that hot air or moist air is
                  dense. The
                  > proof is that clouds are over our heads because the air is less dense -
                  > this is why moisture goes up to join the clouds.
                  >
                  > The portion of vibrating air in the flute that comes out the tail of
                  the
                  > flute and open toneholes into the room meet the rooms relatively
                  stable air
                  > after going a certain distance from the flute. The wall of air in
                  the room
                  > is like a spring that helps the flute reflect some air back into it and
                  > makes the flute function. This spring effect also changes with air
                  > density. How much it changes, I am not certain.
                  >
                  > At 12:28 PM 4/1/2007 +0000, you wrote:
                  >
                  > >It has been suggested that temperature, humidity and altitude play a
                  > >major part in the tuning of a NAF. I have heard that the difference
                  > >would amount to a step difference (50 cents) between Albuquerque (5280
                  > >feet) and Milwaukee (500 feet). Add in the difference from 20%
                  > >humidity to 80% humidity and the difference could be 100 cents! I am
                  > >making a NAF for my nephew in Milwaukee (out of laminated bamboo
                  > >flooring), and I want it to be right.
                  > >
                  > >I plan to incorporate a tuning slide (which will have 50 cents +-
                  > >range. I will use the conversion tables supplied on the web to tune
                  > >it as if I were in Milwaukee. I will then test it with the slide
                  > >adjusted to 5000 feet and A-440
                  > >
                  > >I can play my Yamaha silver flute in tune in Milwaukee
                  > >Sir James Galway has no pitch problem here or in Denver (same
                  > >conditions). I have played with Trevor Wye (here in Albuquerque).
                  > >Trevor is a flute mechanics geek like me --- I only wish I were making
                  > >NAFs when I was talking to him.
                  > >
                  > >Question:
                  > >Is this all BS?
                  > >Is it possible because a Boehme flute has the tuning slide?
                  > >Will my tuning slide overcome this problem?
                  > >Do well-meaning flute makers here in the land of " The Eight Northern
                  > >Pueblos" just accept that a flute sold on e-bay will be WAY out of
                  > >tune in the rest of the country (world)?
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • kent bush
                  Location of the lowest above ground point in the United States is Bad Water, in Death Valley. Can t remember exactly, but it is about 120 feet below sea
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 1, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Location of the lowest above ground point in the United States is Bad Water, in Death Valley. Can't remember exactly, but it is about 120 feet below sea level.


                    ---------------------------------
                    Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
                    always stay connected to friends.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Anna Key
                    Hi All Has anybody got a surplus spokeshave ( concave) they may want to part with I cant seem to get one over here in the UK without having to pay out very
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 6, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi All

                      Has anybody got a surplus spokeshave ( concave) they may want to part with

                      I cant seem to get one over here in the UK without having to pay out very very high prices.

                      I see there is a basic one made by Kuntz ( no 55 concave spokeshave) but I cant get one here in the UK as nobody stocks them. Its all Stanley and some other over priced brand .

                      The web site i tried to order from from USA will not send it me !! Great eh !!
                      Our money cant be good enough for the states :)

                      Any ideas anybody ??


                      Also..........end grain and sizing.
                      I was reading the blurb about sizing and end grain.
                      I understand the bit about painting a wash onto the end grain before glueing up.
                      My query is,,,,would you sand the ends really really smooth or leave them just a little rough to give the wood a bit more key to glue into ??

                      Somebody mentioned a mortice and tenon joint was it ?
                      How do you put that in a hollow tube ?

                      Regards

                      Steve






                      ---------------------------------
                      New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jason
                      These are not all concave but they certainly would work for the intended purpose. Some are cheap, some are not.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 6, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        These are not all concave but they certainly would work for the
                        intended purpose. Some are cheap, some are not.

                        http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-151r-Spokeshave-Round-
                        152/dp/B0001IWDEW

                        http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Woodworking_Tools/Veritas_P___S/Spokes
                        haves/spokeshaves.html

                        http://www.axminster.co.uk/user_search//sfile/1/jump/4/product-
                        Clifton-Concave-Convex-Spokeshaves-21778.htm

                        http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-10inch-flat-faced-steel-spoke-
                        shave_W0QQitemZ300095219817QQcategoryZ29526QQcmdZViewItem

                        jason

                        --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Anna Key
                        <annakey18@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi All
                        >
                        > Has anybody got a surplus spokeshave ( concave) they may want to
                        part with
                        >
                        > I cant seem to get one over here in the UK without having to pay
                        out very very high prices.
                        >
                        > I see there is a basic one made by Kuntz ( no 55 concave
                        spokeshave) but I cant get one here in the UK as nobody stocks
                        them. Its all Stanley and some other over priced brand .
                        >
                        > The web site i tried to order from from USA will not send it
                        me !! Great eh !!
                        > Our money cant be good enough for the states :)
                        >
                        > Any ideas anybody ??
                        >
                        >
                        > Also..........end grain and sizing.
                        > I was reading the blurb about sizing and end grain.
                        > I understand the bit about painting a wash onto the end grain
                        before glueing up.
                        > My query is,,,,would you sand the ends really really smooth or
                        leave them just a little rough to give the wood a bit more key to
                        glue into ??
                        >
                        > Somebody mentioned a mortice and tenon joint was it ?
                        > How do you put that in a hollow tube ?
                        >
                        > Regards
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing.
                        Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and
                        win prizes.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • bob salmon
                        Try ebay, they have lots. Anna Key wrote: Hi All Has anybody got a surplus spokeshave ( concave) they
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 6, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Try ebay, they have lots.

                          Anna Key <annakey18@...> wrote: Hi All

                          Has anybody got a surplus spokeshave ( concave) they may want to part with

                          I cant seem to get one over here in the UK without having to pay out very very high prices.

                          I see there is a basic one made by Kuntz ( no 55 concave spokeshave) but I cant get one here in the UK as nobody stocks them. Its all Stanley and some other over priced brand .

                          The web site i tried to order from from USA will not send it me !! Great eh !!
                          Our money cant be good enough for the states :)

                          Any ideas anybody ??


                          Also..........end grain and sizing.
                          I was reading the blurb about sizing and end grain.
                          I understand the bit about painting a wash onto the end grain before glueing up.
                          My query is,,,,would you sand the ends really really smooth or leave them just a little rough to give the wood a bit more key to glue into ??

                          Somebody mentioned a mortice and tenon joint was it ?
                          How do you put that in a hollow tube ?

                          Regards

                          Steve






                          ---------------------------------
                          New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          ---------------------------------
                          Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Steve
                          Hi Anna, You can buy spoke shavers from the following stockist: Classic Hand Tools in Suffolk (www.classichandtools.com) Good Timber in Northamptonshire
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 6, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Anna,

                            You can buy spoke shavers from the following stockist:

                            "Classic Hand Tools" in Suffolk (www.classichandtools.com)
                            "Good Timber" in Northamptonshire (www.goodtimber.com)
                            "Limerick" in Eire (www.joemckenna.ie)

                            You can also check with:

                            "Yandle & Sons Ltd" in Somerset (Tel: 01935 822207 no webpage)
                            "Cuffley" in Hertfordshire (Tel: 01707 873434 no webpage)

                            Blowin' hot air,
                            Steve Lundh
                            Seattle, Washington
                            tall_six6 (at) yahoo.com
                          • klahansua
                            I bought a concave spokeshave from Amazon co uk this morning. It is a Stanley and it cost £21.02 and that is including the postage.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 7, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I bought a concave spokeshave from Amazon co uk this morning. It is a
                              Stanley and it cost £21.02 and that is including the postage.
                              http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-151r-Spokeshave-Round-152/dp/B0001IWDEW
                              I know it is difficult getting certain tools in UK, also certain woods
                              and when you do find something it is usually very expensive:-(
                              Mo
                            • bob salmon
                              Hi, try an outfit called www.bowrivercraftwoods.com they have awesome maples, walnuts, and a huge selection of exotics, the gent that owns it is English, they
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 7, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi, try an outfit called www.bowrivercraftwoods.com they have awesome maples, walnuts, and a huge selection of exotics, the gent that owns it is English, they are located in Chilliwack British Columbia Canada. They carry beautiful flute blanks as well, at very reasonable prices, and they ship worldwide. Really great helpful people.

                                klahansua <klahansua@...> wrote: I bought a concave spokeshave from Amazon co uk this morning. It is a
                                Stanley and it cost £21.02 and that is including the postage.
                                http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-151r-Spokeshave-Round-152/dp/B0001IWDEW
                                I know it is difficult getting certain tools in UK, also certain woods
                                and when you do find something it is usually very expensive:-(
                                Mo






                                ---------------------------------
                                Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.