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Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: harmonic minor tuning

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  • Larry Evans
    ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 33 , Jun 1, 2006
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      On 5/31/06 9:01 PM, "Bob Grealish" <shibuibob@...> wrote:

      > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Larry Evans
      > <larrywevans@...> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > HI Bob,
      >> > Sorry I haven¹t gotten back to you since Echoes but it has been
      > very busy
      >> > since. I have started on working on my low flutes again, and it is
      > nice to
      >> > see that some one out there is still keeping the ratio up to near
      > 18. I just
      >> > finished a low middle C that came out nice. I have a low G that I¹m
      > going to
      >> > start the final stage of voicing this morning. The Ratio for it was
      > near 24.
      >> > It has a 1 1/4 inch bore that is 33 inches long. I have it long
      > enough to
      >> > tune into about an F# so I can add my direction holes. I¹ll let you
      > know how
      >> > this turns out. I was very impressed with the low flute, sorry I
      > just
      >> > remember it was low and I think you had used a tapered bore. I¹m
      > starting to
      >> > think about using tapered bores and I even have a good way to do it
      > already
      >> > since my old flute router jig is not of the self centering type so
      > I can set
      >> > the end on center and shift the mouth end off center by whatever I
      > want on
      >> > each side to come up with a width wise tapered bore. The other
      > solution
      >> > would be to get one of the angle jigs from woodcraft to cut my
      > blanks wider
      >> > toward the mouth end than at the foot. I have also figured the
      > easiest would
      >> > be I think was the way you did it and that was making a deeper cut
      > at the
      >> > mouth end but I haven¹t figured out how much yet for that one. By
      > the way
      >> > the main reason I found; to go with a high ratio on the low flutes
      > other
      >> > than Lew Price suggests to do so is that with Naflutomat that is
      > the only
      >> > way I have been able to get the finger holes within a reasonable
      > reach for a
      >> > G. Hey I just stuck a simple block on it and man does it sound
      > great. I
      >> > don¹t think I will even have to tweak this one. I thought I may
      > have the
      >> > flue a little too deep but it sounds so deep, loud, mellow and with
      > just a
      >> > little extra air jumps octave the way I wanted it too. I got a
      > feeling this
      >> > will be tuned by noon or earlier.
      >> > Keep your fingers crossed and give Rose a hug for me,
      >> > Larry
      >> >
      >> >
      >
      > Hi, Larry,
      > Sorry about my delays in responding too. I guess everybody's busy
      > these days. Good luck with the G. It sounds like it's going to work
      > out nicely. The 1 1/4" bit will give you a 24 L/B ratio as you said,
      > but the length/Bore^2 ratio is only 19.7, so that's a "good" range
      > anyway. If it plays, the L/B ratio is OK. The flute I took to M.E.
      > was a B3. It has a 1 1/2" bore. It's not really tapered, it's just
      > that the section South of the first hole is constricted to 1 1/4".
      > So it is sort of a "stepped" bore. As bore perturbations go, this
      > probably doesn't do much. The net effect, really, is just to shorten
      > the flute, and possibly to strengthen the first hole note. As far as
      > the second octave, it seems to be sharped enough by eliminating the
      > backset, so that the second octave D (<OXXXXO)is in tune.
      >
      > As far as tapering, I haven't tried it yet. Your jig might be a good
      > way to go. I thought what I would do is to rout each side deeper
      > than half the diameter, then taper the blanks using my jointer until
      > the bore at the South end is round. So the bore would taper from an
      > oval to a round bore from North to South, but the oval would be
      > oriented verically instead of horizontally. I haven't really come up
      > with a good enough reason to have a tapered bore on a NAF, since
      > there aren't enough second octave notes to try to tune. I think that
      > a couple of well placed bore perturbations and backset placement
      > would be enough to tune the few second octave notes you can get on a
      > NAF.
      >
      > I haven't tried to make any flutes lower that the B3, but I really
      > like the sound of a low flute. I'm sure by now your flute is tuned.
      > How did everything turn out? What did you end up with for hole sizes
      > and finger spacing? Were you able to get the cross fingered notes
      > tuned? I'm looking forward to Zion and seeing you and Ann, as well
      > as all the other folks from this group. Are you going to be a
      > vendor? Either way I hope to see your G flute if you haven't sold it
      > by then. TTFN
      > Bob
      >
      >
      > Hi Bob,
      > I know what you mean about the tapered bore, It is one of those things I
      > keep thinking about trying but getting time to play with the jig is another
      > story. LOL
      > The fingering is playable, at least for me LOL the top three are at 1 1/2 inch
      > spacing and the bottom has 1 5/8 for holes 2&3 and 1 9/16 for 1&2 and hole
      > three still ended up at 1/2 inch diameter but the rest were normal size. I
      > made it a side blown and even as a side blown the arm stretch was a strain(and
      > I have long arms) making the fingering difficult so I added another tube in
      > the shape of a snake that put the snakes head and the new blow hole a few
      > inches below the TSH. Now it is easy to play and it sounds great. It is a
      > little touchy on the fundamental but I think with a little tweaking I can get
      > that to settle down. On the other hand it will play the third hole open
      > octave. I haven¹t put it to the tuner for all the cross fingerings, I guess I
      > thought while tuning it that the holes were going to be to large in general to
      > get a great cross fingering tuning, though I have found on most of the flutes
      > that I make if I undercut on the north end then 90% of the time this is the
      > correct direction to pull one into tune for the cross fingerings and that is
      > why I guess most of my flutes have came out as close as they have in the past.
      > Yes I¹m signed up and got the last flute vendor spot, whew that was close. LOL
      > Anyway Ann and I will be there and we aren¹t driving strait through this time.
      > That was a killer last year. I may keep this one as a personal flute but with
      > Ann around I can never tell if I get to keep one. LOL I¹m going to do an Eagle
      > as the totem to go along with the snake. It is in eastern cedar with the snake
      > done in I think Cypress. I haven¹t got the snake finished yet but the general
      > shape is there and it has been glued into position. I think it will fit into
      > my dip tank? LOL
      > Blessings to you and Rose,
      > Larry




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Larry Evans
      ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 33 of 33 , Jun 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        On 5/31/06 9:01 PM, "Bob Grealish" <shibuibob@...> wrote:

        > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Larry Evans
        > <larrywevans@...> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > HI Bob,
        >> > Sorry I haven¹t gotten back to you since Echoes but it has been
        > very busy
        >> > since. I have started on working on my low flutes again, and it is
        > nice to
        >> > see that some one out there is still keeping the ratio up to near
        > 18. I just
        >> > finished a low middle C that came out nice. I have a low G that I¹m
        > going to
        >> > start the final stage of voicing this morning. The Ratio for it was
        > near 24.
        >> > It has a 1 1/4 inch bore that is 33 inches long. I have it long
        > enough to
        >> > tune into about an F# so I can add my direction holes. I¹ll let you
        > know how
        >> > this turns out. I was very impressed with the low flute, sorry I
        > just
        >> > remember it was low and I think you had used a tapered bore. I¹m
        > starting to
        >> > think about using tapered bores and I even have a good way to do it
        > already
        >> > since my old flute router jig is not of the self centering type so
        > I can set
        >> > the end on center and shift the mouth end off center by whatever I
        > want on
        >> > each side to come up with a width wise tapered bore. The other
        > solution
        >> > would be to get one of the angle jigs from woodcraft to cut my
        > blanks wider
        >> > toward the mouth end than at the foot. I have also figured the
        > easiest would
        >> > be I think was the way you did it and that was making a deeper cut
        > at the
        >> > mouth end but I haven¹t figured out how much yet for that one. By
        > the way
        >> > the main reason I found; to go with a high ratio on the low flutes
        > other
        >> > than Lew Price suggests to do so is that with Naflutomat that is
        > the only
        >> > way I have been able to get the finger holes within a reasonable
        > reach for a
        >> > G. Hey I just stuck a simple block on it and man does it sound
        > great. I
        >> > don¹t think I will even have to tweak this one. I thought I may
        > have the
        >> > flue a little too deep but it sounds so deep, loud, mellow and with
        > just a
        >> > little extra air jumps octave the way I wanted it too. I got a
        > feeling this
        >> > will be tuned by noon or earlier.
        >> > Keep your fingers crossed and give Rose a hug for me,
        >> > Larry
        >> >
        >> >
        >
        > Hi, Larry,
        > Sorry about my delays in responding too. I guess everybody's busy
        > these days. Good luck with the G. It sounds like it's going to work
        > out nicely. The 1 1/4" bit will give you a 24 L/B ratio as you said,
        > but the length/Bore^2 ratio is only 19.7, so that's a "good" range
        > anyway. If it plays, the L/B ratio is OK. The flute I took to M.E.
        > was a B3. It has a 1 1/2" bore. It's not really tapered, it's just
        > that the section South of the first hole is constricted to 1 1/4".
        > So it is sort of a "stepped" bore. As bore perturbations go, this
        > probably doesn't do much. The net effect, really, is just to shorten
        > the flute, and possibly to strengthen the first hole note. As far as
        > the second octave, it seems to be sharped enough by eliminating the
        > backset, so that the second octave D (<OXXXXO)is in tune.
        >
        > As far as tapering, I haven't tried it yet. Your jig might be a good
        > way to go. I thought what I would do is to rout each side deeper
        > than half the diameter, then taper the blanks using my jointer until
        > the bore at the South end is round. So the bore would taper from an
        > oval to a round bore from North to South, but the oval would be
        > oriented verically instead of horizontally. I haven't really come up
        > with a good enough reason to have a tapered bore on a NAF, since
        > there aren't enough second octave notes to try to tune. I think that
        > a couple of well placed bore perturbations and backset placement
        > would be enough to tune the few second octave notes you can get on a
        > NAF.
        >
        > I haven't tried to make any flutes lower that the B3, but I really
        > like the sound of a low flute. I'm sure by now your flute is tuned.
        > How did everything turn out? What did you end up with for hole sizes
        > and finger spacing? Were you able to get the cross fingered notes
        > tuned? I'm looking forward to Zion and seeing you and Ann, as well
        > as all the other folks from this group. Are you going to be a
        > vendor? Either way I hope to see your G flute if you haven't sold it
        > by then. TTFN
        > Bob
        >
        >
        > Hi Bob,
        > I know what you mean about the tapered bore, It is one of those things I
        > keep thinking about trying but getting time to play with the jig is another
        > story. LOL
        > The fingering is playable, at least for me LOL the top three are at 1 1/2 inch
        > spacing and the bottom has 1 5/8 for holes 2&3 and 1 9/16 for 1&2 and hole
        > three still ended up at 1/2 inch diameter but the rest were normal size. I
        > made it a side blown and even as a side blown the arm stretch was a strain(and
        > I have long arms) making the fingering difficult so I added another tube in
        > the shape of a snake that put the snakes head and the new blow hole a few
        > inches below the TSH. Now it is easy to play and it sounds great. It is a
        > little touchy on the fundamental but I think with a little tweaking I can get
        > that to settle down. On the other hand it will play the third hole open
        > octave. I haven¹t put it to the tuner for all the cross fingerings, I guess I
        > thought while tuning it that the holes were going to be to large in general to
        > get a great cross fingering tuning, though I have found on most of the flutes
        > that I make if I undercut on the north end then 90% of the time this is the
        > correct direction to pull one into tune for the cross fingerings and that is
        > why I guess most of my flutes have came out as close as they have in the past.
        > Yes I¹m signed up and got the last flute vendor spot, whew that was close. LOL
        > Anyway Ann and I will be there and we aren¹t driving strait through this time.
        > That was a killer last year. I may keep this one as a personal flute but with
        > Ann around I can never tell if I get to keep one. LOL I¹m going to do an Eagle
        > as the totem to go along with the snake. It is in eastern cedar with the snake
        > done in I think Cypress. I haven¹t got the snake finished yet but the general
        > shape is there and it has been glued into position. I think it will fit into
        > my dip tank? LOL
        > Blessings to you and Rose,
        > Larry




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