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Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness

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  • Edward Knopick
    Okay, I m with you on wall thickness. However, wouldn t wood species affect sound quality? With all this discussion on hole wall height brings me to this
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
      Okay, I'm with you on wall thickness. However, wouldn't wood species affect sound quality? With all this discussion on hole wall height brings me to this question. How does the NAF maker balance the many factors affecting sound when using a variety of wood species and how this parameter affects the other dimensions?

      I know we are talking about an art rather than a science, but science is applied to the art. What am I missing here? For example: do the same dimensions apply to a NAFs made to the same length, diamenter, etc, constructed of yellow pine vs. cedar or hickory?

      Ed

      moosewinds_mike <moosewinds_mike@...> wrote:
      Dusty,

      The example I gave was to show the magnitude and direction of the
      changes needed when considering two wall thicknesses. Instead of
      saying 1/32, I should have said "ten percent or so," and you have to
      admit that a quarter inch is a better guide than "a little bit," but
      avoids the meaningless precision of something like "0.25429 inches."
      The equations do the same thing for me as I think they do for you and
      everyone else that use them at any level—they are a guide.

      I was driven to dig deeper into the theory when trying to understand
      the second octave notes and figure out how to get them in tune.
      Along the way, I've found interesting things in the first octave,
      although most of them are transparent to the tuning process. For
      instance, I noticed that the calculations (same ones in Edwards
      NAFlutomat) predicted bigger top holes than I was getting. Of
      course, I started small and snuck up on the tunings after putting the
      math away. I also noticed that the holes were more on the mark with
      a larger or smaller backset. What the theory tells me is the k2 is a
      function of frequency and gets smaller as the pitch goes up, while a
      longer backset tends to flatten the higher notes and a shorter,
      almost zero backset actually makes k2 longer. I'm still working to
      verify that last one, but that's an example of where the results were
      not predicted by the formula. But that wasn't because the content in
      the formula was wrong—it was because it was incomplete. Sometimes an
      assumption is made in deriving a formula to make it easier to use,
      but that assumption is not necessarily valid for everything on which
      we try to use it. For most folks, this is irrelevant – wonderful
      flutes are made by just making the hole bigger until it's in tune,
      and tweaking the design on the next one if something isn't quite
      right.

      Critical dimensions? Sure, the hole can be too small to work or too
      big to plug up with a finger, or spaced too far apart to reach. But
      within those bounds lies the general range of playability where the
      subjective art lies. Optimal? Probably so if you're looking for
      something measurable like loudness or a hole layout that produces a
      particular pitch of a cross fingering. But optimally chocolatey?
      Maybe someday after I retire I'll get a good spectrum analyzer and
      take a shot at quantifying tone, but I do not harbor much hope in
      that dream.

      So far, I have been exploring the theory in terms of pitch. The
      tone, timbre, or "the sound" has to do with all the frequencies in
      the flute, their relative strengths and how well they radiate. And,
      of course, it depends on whether people like it. I think it will
      take a few more careers in acoustics, fluid dynamics and
      psychophysics before those are nailed, provided we flute makers don't
      sand too much or poke a burning stick too far in a hole, and we use
      specialized plastics instead of wood. No, the art will be there for
      a loooong time.

      So, if you're really asking if the formula can design an optimal
      flute, I'll say no. I read where Arthur Benade, who was a giant in
      the field of musical acoustics and instrument design, actually did
      design and build the optimal (side-blown) flute. Problem was that
      people didn't like it, so it never took hold.

      By the way, did you hear that "they" are talking about a numbered
      rating system for wine? What is the world coming to!?!?

      Mike






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    • Dusty
      Here is the rough synopsis of the wood lecture from one of the Echoes events. The harder the wood...the smaller the flute. The softer the wood, the larger the
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
        Here is the rough synopsis of the wood lecture from one of the Echoes
        events. The harder the wood...the smaller the flute. The softer the
        wood, the larger the flute. Large flutes made from lightweight wood
        actually vibrate like the faceplate of an acoustic guitar (tight grain
        quarter sawn spruce). It can be felt in the fingers. This makes them
        seem louder because they excite more air around the entire flute, not
        just at the foot and TSH. Larger flutes are generally not as loud as
        smaller flutes. Hardwoods actually mute large flutes even more.

        Small flutes made from hardwoods are very "bright"...here we go with
        the words again. I suspect that softwoods absorb soundwaves in these
        smaller flutes and this could be remedied somewhat by finishing the
        inside to a very smooth surface. I made a very itty bitty palownia
        wood flute and there was NO sound at all comming out of it.

        This brings us to the medium size flutes. There is almost no limit
        to what plays well in the medium range of flutes but if the theory
        works, then medium hardwoods would serve well. Soft maple (big leaf
        western maple), Eastern aromatic cedar, tulip poplar, etc.

        Just a theory but I'm sticking to it.
      • healing_didj
        I deal with bright when playing the didj. Stands to reason this would pertain to flutes as well, but here goes... If you want to brighten a flute. SEAL IT
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
          I deal with "bright" when playing the didj. Stands to reason this
          would pertain to flutes as well, but here goes...

          If you want to brighten a flute. SEAL IT inside with a hard finish. If
          you seal it with pure tung oil it will brighten with age as the tung
          oil has a hardening effect. If you seal it with something like
          Envirotex, it'll be bright and stay that way.

          When we play a didj... a traditional one made from termite-hollowed
          eucalyptus... it actually brightens as we play. Played long enough
          there will be a puddle at the foot. (we lovingly refer to this as
          didgeri-drool). Aboriginals, who can simply go harvest another
          eucalyptus log if their current one cracks) often dump water down the
          bore before playing. This effectively brightens the didj.

          So... you can make a softwood brighter, but I don't know how to make a
          hard wood LESS bright.

          --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Dusty"
          <greatwave@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Small flutes made from hardwoods are very "bright"...here we go with
          > the words again. I suspect that softwoods absorb soundwaves in these
          > smaller flutes and this could be remedied somewhat by finishing the
          > inside to a very smooth surface. I made a very itty bitty palownia
          > wood flute and there was NO sound at all comming out of it.
        • Larry Evans
          Thanks Dusty, I didn t get to that lecture and have wished I did ever since. I have been trying to use Cherry to make a low C or B but they have not had the
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
            Thanks Dusty,
            I didn't get to that lecture and have wished I did ever since. I have been trying to use Cherry to make a low C or B but they have not had the sound quality that I was wanting, so if I use Redwood do you think it will have a stronger clearer voice? I have been using the vinegar and steel wool to ebonize black Walnut. I have two F# both are custom orders, one is ebonized Black Walnut and the other is Ebony. Considering the extra cost of the Ebony I'm not that impressed with the sound. I personally like the sound of the walnut more, it is a sweeter sound to me. Chocolaty? LOL By the way to respond to the original question, I used the same design for both and I never adjust for the different woods, I just make the flute and the voice of each wood will be different but I haven't noticed any effect on hole placement. Of course I don't use micrometers to check, if it is in tune is all that matters to me.
            Enjoying the Journey,
            Larry
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Dusty
            To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:42 AM
            Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness


            Here is the rough synopsis of the wood lecture from one of the Echoes
            events. The harder the wood...the smaller the flute. The softer the
            wood, the larger the flute. Large flutes made from lightweight wood
            actually vibrate like the faceplate of an acoustic guitar (tight grain
            quarter sawn spruce). It can be felt in the fingers. This makes them
            seem louder because they excite more air around the entire flute, not
            just at the foot and TSH. Larger flutes are generally not as loud as
            smaller flutes. Hardwoods actually mute large flutes even more.

            Small flutes made from hardwoods are very "bright"...here we go with
            the words again. I suspect that softwoods absorb soundwaves in these
            smaller flutes and this could be remedied somewhat by finishing the
            inside to a very smooth surface. I made a very itty bitty palownia
            wood flute and there was NO sound at all comming out of it.

            This brings us to the medium size flutes. There is almost no limit
            to what plays well in the medium range of flutes but if the theory
            works, then medium hardwoods would serve well. Soft maple (big leaf
            western maple), Eastern aromatic cedar, tulip poplar, etc.

            Just a theory but I'm sticking to it.







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          • Steve Wells
            Hi hd, To make a hard wood less bright, rough up the inner surface of the bore with some coarse grit sand paper. It s the smoothness on the micro- level that
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
              Hi hd,

              To make a hard wood less bright, rough up the inner surface of the bore
              with some coarse grit sand paper. It's the smoothness on the micro-
              level that has an impact on the harmonics that are passed, and
              therefore the tone. Water down the bore creates a smoother micro-
              surface, and so makes the tone brighter.

              SteveW



              --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "healing_didj"
              <cparker.reikimaster@g...> wrote:
              > So... you can make a softwood brighter, but I don't know how to make a
              > hard wood LESS bright...
            • Don Forshag
              On the other hand, I found the article here worth a smile, if not a LOL: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/documents/Coltman-1.06.pdf Don ... Echoes ...
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
                On the other hand, I found the article here worth a smile, if not a
                LOL:

                http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/documents/Coltman-1.06.pdf


                Don

                --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Dusty"
                <greatwave@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is the rough synopsis of the wood lecture from one of the
                Echoes
                > events. The harder the wood...the smaller the flute. The softer the
                > wood, the larger the flute. Large flutes made from lightweight wood
                > actually vibrate like the faceplate of an acoustic guitar (tight
                grain
                > quarter sawn spruce). It can be felt in the fingers. This makes them
                > seem louder because they excite more air around the entire flute,
                not
                > just at the foot and TSH. Larger flutes are generally not as loud as
                > smaller flutes. Hardwoods actually mute large flutes even more.
                >
                > Small flutes made from hardwoods are very "bright"...here we go
                with
                > the words again. I suspect that softwoods absorb soundwaves in these
                > smaller flutes and this could be remedied somewhat by finishing the
                > inside to a very smooth surface. I made a very itty bitty palownia
                > wood flute and there was NO sound at all comming out of it.
                >
                > This brings us to the medium size flutes. There is almost no limit
                > to what plays well in the medium range of flutes but if the theory
                > works, then medium hardwoods would serve well. Soft maple (big leaf
                > western maple), Eastern aromatic cedar, tulip poplar, etc.
                >
                > Just a theory but I'm sticking to it.
                >
              • Edward Kort
                The two major gurus in flute acoustics, Benade and Nederveen, both conclude the same thing as Don s article: the material from which the flute is made has
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
                  The two major gurus in flute acoustics, Benade and Nederveen, both
                  conclude the same thing as Don's article: the material from which the
                  flute is made has hardly any effect on tone quality.

                  But that is not to say that most small flutes don't sound better when
                  made with harder woods (don't you love the double negatives). Small
                  flutes must be smooth and accurately crafted in smaller dimensions.
                  This is easier to do with harder woods. And the opposite is true for
                  larger flutes.

                  So the tone differences may be real, but they could be the result of
                  these ease of making good sounding flutes with the different woods.
                  Personally, I make large and small flutes out of both hard and soft
                  woods. The choice is based on how energetic I feel at the time - it
                  is a lot more work to make a large flute out of a hard wood than a
                  soft wood. But I do like the increased durability of a large flute
                  when made from a hard wood.

                  Just my experience,
                  Edward


                  --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Don Forshag"
                  <dogfox66@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On the other hand, I found the article here worth a smile, if not a
                  > LOL:
                  >
                  > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/documents/Coltman-1.06.pdf
                  >
                  >
                  > Don
                • dale thomas
                  Hi Fellas, I found it interesting that all the flutes used the same plastic (delrin) material for the mouthpiece (embouchure, I assume.) I wonder if the same
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
                    Hi Fellas,

                    I found it interesting that all the flutes used the same plastic (delrin) material for the mouthpiece (embouchure, I assume.)

                    I wonder if the same results would be observed if the sound mechanism of each flute was made of the same material as the rest of the flute. That is, if the copper flute had a copper moouthpiece etc. for all the other flutes. I'll have to ask, I can't afford to make a silver flute. :-)

                    dale t.


                    Edward Kort <edkort@...> wrote:
                    The two major gurus in flute acoustics, Benade and Nederveen, both
                    conclude the same thing as Don's article: the material from which the
                    flute is made has hardly any effect on tone quality.

                    But that is not to say that most small flutes don't sound better when
                    made with harder woods (don't you love the double negatives). Small
                    flutes must be smooth and accurately crafted in smaller dimensions.
                    This is easier to do with harder woods. And the opposite is true for
                    larger flutes.

                    So the tone differences may be real, but they could be the result of
                    these ease of making good sounding flutes with the different woods.
                    Personally, I make large and small flutes out of both hard and soft
                    woods. The choice is based on how energetic I feel at the time - it
                    is a lot more work to make a large flute out of a hard wood than a
                    soft wood. But I do like the increased durability of a large flute
                    when made from a hard wood.

                    Just my experience,
                    Edward


                    --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Don Forshag"
                    <dogfox66@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On the other hand, I found the article here worth a smile, if not a
                    > LOL:
                    >
                    > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/documents/Coltman-1.06.pdf
                    >
                    >
                    > Don






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                  • Edward Knopick
                    Thanks, I appreciate all the input on the issue of the stock used to make a NAF. Being new to this art, I m trying to learn how to balance the many variables
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 1, 2005
                      Thanks,
                      I appreciate all the input on the issue of the stock used to make a NAF. Being new to this art, I'm trying to learn how to balance the many variables that affect tone quality, to produce a quality instrument.

                      I'll keep listening and learning :)

                      Ed Knopick

                      Edward Kort <edkort@...> wrote:
                      The two major gurus in flute acoustics, Benade and Nederveen, both
                      conclude the same thing as Don's article: the material from which the
                      flute is made has hardly any effect on tone quality.

                      But that is not to say that most small flutes don't sound better when
                      made with harder woods (don't you love the double negatives). Small
                      flutes must be smooth and accurately crafted in smaller dimensions.
                      This is easier to do with harder woods. And the opposite is true for
                      larger flutes.

                      So the tone differences may be real, but they could be the result of
                      these ease of making good sounding flutes with the different woods.
                      Personally, I make large and small flutes out of both hard and soft
                      woods. The choice is based on how energetic I feel at the time - it
                      is a lot more work to make a large flute out of a hard wood than a
                      soft wood. But I do like the increased durability of a large flute
                      when made from a hard wood.

                      Just my experience,
                      Edward


                      --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Don Forshag"
                      <dogfox66@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On the other hand, I found the article here worth a smile, if not a
                      > LOL:
                      >
                      > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/documents/Coltman-1.06.pdf
                      >
                      >
                      > Don






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                    • Dusty
                      Both ebony and walnut do like like moisture, so seal them up well. Walnut has a wonderful tone. Ebony mills to an extremely smooth surface and sands easily so
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                        Both ebony and walnut do like like moisture, so seal them up well.
                        Walnut has a wonderful tone. Ebony mills to an extremely smooth
                        surface and sands easily so it works well with the small flutes.
                      • Dusty
                        A friend of mine who makes transverse flutes here in Maryland showed me a silver flute for which he had made three different mouthpieces.. gold, silver, and
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                          A friend of mine who makes transverse flutes here in Maryland
                          showed me a silver flute for which he had made three different
                          mouthpieces.. gold, silver, and titanium. He put each one on and
                          played it and insisted there was a big difference but as a novice
                          listener, I couldn't tell. The mouth holes were all "different" in
                          that each one was hand crafted and not cast from a mold and this could
                          account for his enthusiasm for the titanium mouthpiece since it was
                          more unique and took more time crafting.

                          There are measurable difference in the way different woods respond
                          in a flute. Or any acoustic wooden instrument. Wood structure from
                          different species is greatly different than tightly packed metal
                          molecules of different metals. And wood works differently. Many woods
                          seem to have their own agenda while metals can be coaxed to conform.

                          I recently found a plank of quarter sawn spruce about 4' x 9" x 1"
                          with tight growth rings for around $30. I'm saving it for the the new
                          year when I entend to regain artistic license and make about 2/3 fewer
                          flutes in 2006 and do much more experimentation. The yachting industry
                          in Annapolis demands a higher quality wood than the construction
                          industry so thankfully there is a good choice of product at the Exotic
                          Lumber joint which caters to the boatbuilders. I also want to
                          experiment with fruitwoods, like European pear.
                        • moosewinds_mike
                          Dusty, Where is that wood joint you speak of? I live not too far away in Southern Maryland, and it s hard to find good material I can pick up and look at
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                            Dusty,

                            Where is that wood joint you speak of? I live not too far away in
                            Southern Maryland, and it's hard to find good material I can pick up
                            and look at before buying. I sometimes stop by Colonial Hardwood in
                            the Springfield, VA area (close to work). As for the non-exotic wood,
                            a while back I picked up some very nice western redcedar 4x4 post (~
                            40 growth rings/inch) at Johnson's Lumber just south from Annapolis on
                            Rte. 2.

                            Mike
                          • Ken McEwan
                            Mike, I m not sure I understand what you meant here. Do you mean the thicker the wall the flatter note? E.g. Bb vs.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                              Mike,



                              <the thicker-walled hole will be flatter> I'm not sure I understand what you
                              meant here. Do you mean the thicker the wall the flatter note? E.g. Bb vs.
                              B#.



                              I'm currently working on a Purple Heart flute which I have not tuned to the
                              fundamental note yet. I'm working down the outside diameter of the bore and
                              wanted to make sure that I didn't make it too thick or two thin.



                              Thanks for all the info.



                              Regards,



                              Ken



                              _____

                              From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of moosewinds_mike
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:55 PM
                              To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness



                              Ken,

                              The wall thickness significantly affects the acoustic length of the
                              finger hole, particularly for smaller holes. With everything else the
                              same, the thicker-walled hole will be flatter.

                              For example, to bring the hole into tune the difference between a 1/8-
                              and a 3/16-inch thickness for a 1/4-inch finger hole in a 3/4-inch
                              bore will change the placement by about 1/4 inch. Or if the holes are
                              placed a set distance from the foot, the hole diameter difference
                              would be over 1/32-inch.

                              Mike






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                            • Don Forshag
                              ... Dusty,et al., I agree that it s satisfying to feel a flute vibrating in your fingertips. The notion that this must be contributing at some level to sound
                              Message 14 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Dusty" <greatwave@y...>
                                wrote:

                                > I also want to
                                > experiment with fruitwoods, like European pear.
                                >

                                Dusty,et al.,

                                I agree that it's satisfying to feel a flute vibrating in your
                                fingertips. The notion that this must be contributing at some level to
                                sound quality is understandable.

                                As for fruit woods, start with steamed European pear. I used a less-
                                than-perfect blank of it this week for prototype of a gift flute I have
                                in mind. It's delightful to work with in every respect. The resulting
                                7/8" A# didn't vibrate in my hand, but it made a lute, hanging nearby,
                                sound in sympathy.

                                Don
                              • Larry Evans
                                Thanks Dusty, As a side benefit of buying enough ebony to do the custom flute I have just enough to make a flute with a 1/2 inch bore width wise so I plan on
                                Message 15 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                  Thanks Dusty,
                                  As a side benefit of buying enough ebony to do the custom flute I have just enough to make a flute with a 1/2 inch bore width wise so I plan on getting one more flute out of that Ebony, I didn't like it that much for carving though, it is very brittle. Though as with all woods I found the sharper the knife the fewer tear outs and it really required good stopping cuts done around any raised areas.
                                  Enjoying the Journey,
                                  Larry
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Dusty
                                  To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:42 AM
                                  Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness


                                  Both ebony and walnut do like like moisture, so seal them up well.
                                  Walnut has a wonderful tone. Ebony mills to an extremely smooth
                                  surface and sands easily so it works well with the small flutes.







                                  Yahoo! Groups Links









                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Flak Magnet (Tim)
                                  ... If I understand your question properly, the answer is Yes . A thicker wall, with all other aspects of the flute being the same, will result in a lower
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                    On Friday 02 December 2005 09:07 am, Ken McEwan wrote:

                                    > I'm currently working on a Purple Heart flute which I have not tuned to the
                                    > fundamental note yet. I'm working down the outside diameter of the bore and
                                    > wanted to make sure that I didn't make it too thick or two thin.

                                    If I understand your question properly, the answer is "Yes".

                                    A thicker wall, with all other aspects of the flute being the same, will
                                    result in a lower note than the same sized/placed hole on a thinner walled
                                    flute.

                                    The reason for this is that the thicker wall makes the fingerhole deeper, and
                                    that finger hole acts as a sort of extension to the bore. Thinning the wall
                                    at the fingerhold therefore shortens that extension and raises the note a
                                    bit.

                                    I prefer to have flat spots, finger-rests if you will, on my flutes and so I
                                    have just started to plan on thinning the walls of my flutes at each
                                    fingerhole, using the thinning as part of the tuning process.

                                    --
                                    --Flak Magnet
                                  • moosewinds_mike
                                    Ken, Tim gave a good explanation. The point is that the note would be slightly flatter for a fixed diameter, but a thicker wall. You just need to either open
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                      Ken,

                                      Tim gave a good explanation. The point is that the note would be
                                      slightly flatter for a fixed diameter, but a thicker wall. You just
                                      need to either open up the diameter sharpen it into tune, or place it
                                      higher on the bore in the first place.

                                      Mike
                                    • Marie Clay
                                      Oh man that would be so way cool. I got a big smile just thinking of a chocolate flute.. I wonder if the wood would smell like chocolate? Makes my mind
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                        Oh man that would be so way cool. I got a big smile just thinking of a chocolate flute.. I wonder if the wood would smell like chocolate? Makes my mind go crazy... (no wise remarks please) lol
                                        How you doing with this rain?
                                        Walk with God
                                        Marie
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Judy
                                        To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:41 AM
                                        Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness



                                        "But optimally chocolatey?"



                                        Ok guys what is chocolatey? Is it Dark, Rich and Smooth and releases a lot of endorphins? :) I think I need a coupld of flutes like this. hmmm what does the chocolate bean grown on, bush or tree, can you imagine a flute made from chocolate bush/tree? What an awesome flute that would make.

                                        :) I just love you guys.

                                        big hugs,

                                        Judy (Keeyah)






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                                      • Dusty
                                        Marie, the idea of casting a flute in chocolate or actually trying to make one out of a chunk of chocolate has been on my mind for years. My current shop space
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                          Marie, the idea of casting a flute in chocolate or actually trying
                                          to make one out of a chunk of chocolate has been on my mind for years.
                                          My current shop space is certainly cold enough in the winter to do
                                          this without fear of melting it but the mouthpiece and the fingerholes
                                          would have to be protected with a hardened sugar glaze. The whole
                                          thing could be dunked in ice water inbetween tweaking.

                                          This idea first came to me after I bought a 1/2 box of candy
                                          lolliepop sliding whistles that were on the counter of a gas station
                                          in Manassas Virginia. They worked amazingly well. I gave them out to
                                          kids at our annual Christmas party. Drove the adults bonkers. The
                                          slider was also the handel. The wrapper has instructions on how to
                                          play songs and shows positions of the handel, which as I recall had
                                          numbers on it for the positions of notes. Saliva seems to have a
                                          deleterious effect eventually.

                                          I'll try to find another box of these and bring them to the Potomac
                                          Flute Festival in Feb. One of these days I may even grow up, but not
                                          anytime soon.
                                        • Mr Taz R DeVil
                                          Dusty wrote: I ll try to find another box of these and bring them to the Potomac Flute Festival in Feb. One of these days I may even grow
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Dec 2, 2005
                                            Dusty <greatwave@...> wrote:
                                            I'll try to find another box of these and bring them to the Potomac
                                            Flute Festival in Feb. One of these days I may even grow up, but not
                                            anytime soon.

                                            these sound fun to have and growing up sucks if you ask me. sign me up for a box too.

                                            Rodger

                                            SKRAP_R Flutes






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                                          • Marie Clay
                                            I had a flute like that one time. I gifted it to some one. But dang, I always thought that was a good idea. Walk with God Marie ... From: Flak Magnet
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Dec 4, 2005
                                              I had a flute like that one time. I gifted it to some one. But dang, I always thought that was a good idea.
                                              Walk with God
                                              Marie
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Flak Magnet (Tim)
                                              To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:09 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness


                                              On Friday 02 December 2005 09:07 am, Ken McEwan wrote:

                                              > I'm currently working on a Purple Heart flute which I have not tuned to the
                                              > fundamental note yet. I'm working down the outside diameter of the bore and
                                              > wanted to make sure that I didn't make it too thick or two thin.

                                              If I understand your question properly, the answer is "Yes".

                                              A thicker wall, with all other aspects of the flute being the same, will
                                              result in a lower note than the same sized/placed hole on a thinner walled
                                              flute.

                                              The reason for this is that the thicker wall makes the fingerhole deeper, and
                                              that finger hole acts as a sort of extension to the bore. Thinning the wall
                                              at the fingerhold therefore shortens that extension and raises the note a
                                              bit.

                                              I prefer to have flat spots, finger-rests if you will, on my flutes and so I
                                              have just started to plan on thinning the walls of my flutes at each
                                              fingerhole, using the thinning as part of the tuning process.

                                              --
                                              --Flak Magnet


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                                            • Marie Clay
                                              WOW Dusty. Now that sounds like one great idea. And remember I soooo volinteer to test that flute for you...lol Walk with God Marie ... From: Dusty To:
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Dec 7, 2005
                                                WOW Dusty. Now that sounds like one great idea. And remember I soooo volinteer to test that flute for you...lol
                                                Walk with God
                                                Marie
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Dusty
                                                To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:31 PM
                                                Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Effect of Wall thickness



                                                Marie, the idea of casting a flute in chocolate or actually trying
                                                to make one out of a chunk of chocolate has been on my mind for years.
                                                My current shop space is certainly cold enough in the winter to do
                                                this without fear of melting it but the mouthpiece and the fingerholes
                                                would have to be protected with a hardened sugar glaze. The whole
                                                thing could be dunked in ice water inbetween tweaking.

                                                This idea first came to me after I bought a 1/2 box of candy
                                                lolliepop sliding whistles that were on the counter of a gas station
                                                in Manassas Virginia. They worked amazingly well. I gave them out to
                                                kids at our annual Christmas party. Drove the adults bonkers. The
                                                slider was also the handel. The wrapper has instructions on how to
                                                play songs and shows positions of the handel, which as I recall had
                                                numbers on it for the positions of notes. Saliva seems to have a
                                                deleterious effect eventually.

                                                I'll try to find another box of these and bring them to the Potomac
                                                Flute Festival in Feb. One of these days I may even grow up, but not
                                                anytime soon.





                                                SPONSORED LINKS Craft hobby Hobby and craft supply Native flute
                                                Wood glue


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