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Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes

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  • Dale
    ... I have tried the dremel too...But you have to appreciate the dust... When i left my garage , i was literally red... As well as everything around me...;-)
    Message 1 of 14 , May 1, 2005
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      --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Canadian Mohawk"
      <canadianmohawk@y...> wrote:
      > Sorry..I meant, I do everything with a dremel!
      >

      I have tried the dremel too...But you have to appreciate the dust...
      When i left my garage , i was literally red...
      As well as everything around me...;-)
    • Dale
      ... Perhaps it s not important for what you want to do , but here is a little precison: Some seller call catlinite stone wich is definetely not
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2005
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        --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "healing_didj"
        <cparker.reikimaster@g...> wrote:
        > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Christenbury
        > <wrestler_aj@y...> wrote:
        > > Speaking of pipestone where is a good place tp purchase pipe stone?
        > I wounldn't mind gviing it a try .
        > >
        > >
        > > AJ
        > >
        > Pipestone is Catlinite. If you go on eBay you'll find several items
        > and some chunks for carving. Many under $5. Catlinite has a hardness
        > of around 2 so it's harder than soapstone (the Brazilian soapstone I
        > usually carve has a hardness around 1.5). Carving pipestone would be
        > similar to carving alabaster which also has a hardness of 2.
        >
        > --Charlie

        Perhaps it's not important for what you want to do , but here is a
        little precison:

        Some seller call "catlinite" stone wich is definetely not
        catlinite...Catlinite comes from one place , the national monument in
        pipestone , minnesota ...the sacred carry.
        Native american are the only ones authorized to pick it up.
        Pipestone from others carries in minnesota is almost , but not
        catlinite (not exactly the same structure) , as well as the one from
        utah...
      • healing_didj
        ... EEEK! yeah, using a dremel will be VERY dusty and you don t want that fine dust in your lungs. It s stone dust and can be powerfully irritating depending
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2005
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          --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Dale" <turaipo@y...>
          wrote:
          > --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Canadian Mohawk"
          > <canadianmohawk@y...> wrote:
          > > Sorry..I meant, I do everything with a dremel!
          > >
          >
          > I have tried the dremel too...But you have to appreciate the dust...
          > When i left my garage , i was literally red...
          > As well as everything around me...;-)

          EEEK! yeah, using a dremel will be VERY dusty and you don't want that
          fine dust in your lungs. It's stone dust and can be powerfully
          irritating depending on the stone type or.. in some cases if you
          aren't sure where the stone came from.. some of the soft stones like
          soapstone from the US can contain asbestos in small amounts. In the
          US, soapstone deposits are often very close to asbestos depsosits.
          So... avoid that dust. I will say that for some areas I use a
          flex-shaft grinder with either diamond burrs or KutzAll burrs. But in
          limited application and only outside and with at least a dust mask.

          Small pieces are actually a little tougher for me because I'm kinda
          set up for things that are a bit bigger. Small pieces I almost always
          do while simply holding them in my hand and carving with the other
          hand. Makes me nervous as my chisels are sharp. Sometimes I find
          myself pinning them down with my thumb while rasping them with the
          other hand. But you should be able to rough out a clean-lined Spirit
          Bird bird in under 30 minutes and then wet samd it for probably close
          to an hour to get it glossy.
        • Dale
          ... A good way to carve little things , is to use a kind of leather pillow (i don t know the name in english).. It s a round piece of leather , stuffed ,
          Message 4 of 14 , May 1, 2005
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            --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "healing_didj"
            <cparker.reikimaster@g...> wrote:

            > Small pieces are actually a little tougher for me because I'm kinda
            > set up for things that are a bit bigger. Small pieces I almost always
            > do while simply holding them in my hand and carving with the other
            > hand. Makes me nervous as my chisels are sharp. Sometimes I find
            > myself pinning them down with my thumb while rasping them with the
            > other hand.

            A good way to carve little things , is to use a kind of "leather
            pillow" (i don't know the name in english)..
            It's a round piece of leather , stuffed , used usually by carvers who
            do small work , onto wich your object stays , your hands on each side
            , one holding the tool , the other the piece of stone (or wood , bone
            , etc..)...It's very confortable , and safer.
            To avoid any accident , tool slipping , just place the ends of
            your thumbs facing each other , working like a brake.

            You can easily make this "pillow" with a simple piece of wood , 2"
            inches thick , cut in a round shape between 6" and 7" diameter (depend
            of your hands size ), well rounded to remove angles.
            Keep a face plane , and make a round cavity on the center of the other
            (to hold bigger objects , or round ones...We used this technique to
            carve coconut shell , mother of pearl , when i was in polynesia).
          • Joe
            Thanks dale, I ll give it my best! ... From: Dale To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:38 PM Subject: [Native Flute
            Message 5 of 14 , May 3, 2005
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              Thanks dale, I'll give it my best!
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dale
              To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:38 PM
              Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes


              --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <aaron@c...> wrote:
              > I was wondering if you could tell me what tools, procedures, etc.
              you use to carve catlinite or soap stone. I have two blocks of
              pipestone(ct.) but I'm not sure what to use to start.
              > Joe

              Here is a interesting link showing the process to make a catlinite pipe:
              http://littlefeathercenter.50megs.com/2004/instract1.html...

              In a nutshell ,
              draw your bird with a pencil,
              use a hacksaw to cut it roughly,
              Use big files of various shape to shape it ,
              and finish the details with needle file...
              Beware , it's stone ,
              and the entire process could take several hours !
              (i made a bird recently , a kokopelli figure , and it takes me
              something like eight hours...)..

              If you have detailed carving to do ,
              you can use small hand carving tools.
              Not the hollowed ones for the wood (like gouges)!
              But something like straight chisels...
              (ideally metal and stone carving tools)...
              You can easily make some of them ,
              with hard steel from an old file ,
              or an old drill bit ,
              shaping them with a grinder ,
              and adding a wood handle.
              Stone carving tools don't need to be sharpened.







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            • Joe
              Thanks didj for the info, I m ready to give it a crack! well I hope it doesn t crack. ... From: healing_didj To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com Sent:
              Message 6 of 14 , May 3, 2005
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                Thanks didj for the info, I'm ready to give it a crack! well I hope it doesn't crack.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: healing_didj
                To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:46 PM
                Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes


                --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <aaron@c...> wrote:
                > I was wondering if you could tell me what tools, procedures, etc.
                you use to carve catlinite or soap stone. I have two blocks of
                pipestone(ct.) but I'm not sure what to use to start.
                > Joe

                I have a small set of Chinese chisels. Some are straight chisels, some
                are curved (like cutting a tiny spoon in half, crosswise). I also use
                heavy rasps, files, nails, dental picks, and a hacksaw to rough shape
                them. I have even cut chunks off of larger blocks with a bow saw.
                Theoretically the tools don't have to be sharp, but I think that's
                more true for harder stone. For the soft stone like soapstone,
                alabaster (which is the same hardness as pipestone) I like to keep an
                edge on them. Definitely not as critical as with wood, but makes
                things easier. You can also drill it. On a blind hole be sure to get
                the dust out often.
                Then comes polishing. I go from about a 200 grit carborundum wet/dry
                to about 800. You can take it out farther to as high as 1400, but you
                won't see much of a difference beyond 800. When you go from 200 grit
                to 400 grit, you want to make sure there are NO scratches left from
                the 200. That's what tells you you're done with the 400. If you move
                on to 600 and there are still scratches from the 200, you'll almost
                never get them out without going back or spending a MUCH longer time
                on them. I do this in a bucket of water. For most pieces I want a
                little finish protection on them so I stick them in the oven at a low
                temp... about 150 degrees... for 30 minutes. Then I take them out and
                rub them with beeswax (Sno-Seal works well too!) and then buff them.
                The same effect can be achieved by spraying with clear lacquer instead
                of using the wax.





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              • Joe
                Thanks for the Idea mr. mohawk. ... From: Canadian Mohawk To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:56 PM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 14 , May 3, 2005
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                  Thanks for the Idea mr. mohawk.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Canadian Mohawk
                  To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes


                  A dermal with attachments and small files work best.

                  Dave
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Joe
                  To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:48 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes


                  I was wondering if you could tell me what tools, procedures, etc. you use to carve catlinite or soap stone. I have two blocks of pipestone(ct.) but I'm not sure what to use to start.
                  Joe
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: healing_didj
                  To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:29 AM
                  Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Question about direction holes/tuning holes


                  --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Christenbury
                  <wrestler_aj@y...> wrote:
                  > Speaking of pipestone where is a good place tp purchase pipe stone?
                  I wounldn't mind gviing it a try .
                  >
                  >
                  > AJ
                  >
                  Pipestone is Catlinite. If you go on eBay you'll find several items
                  and some chunks for carving. Many under $5. Catlinite has a hardness
                  of around 2 so it's harder than soapstone (the Brazilian soapstone I
                  usually carve has a hardness around 1.5). Carving pipestone would be
                  similar to carving alabaster which also has a hardness of 2.

                  --Charlie





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