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Re: [native-nutrition] Re: Physical training; was NT, weight gain, thyroid

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  • Roman
    Laura, I couldn t disagree more with what you said. ... I recently came across an article that said that muscle definition comes mostly from having little body
    Message 1 of 190 , Jun 9 3:54 PM
      Laura,

      I couldn't disagree more with what you said.

      soynomore wrote:

      > It is my experience and belief that many reps at low weight increases
      > muscle endurance (a cousin of "efficiency") that is, if you want
      > really awsomely defined (but not bulky) forearms, take up house
      > painting. If you want well-defined but not bulky legs, become a mail
      > carrier. If you want well-defined but not bulky deltoids, romboids,
      > trapesius, pectorals, and quads, join a rowing team. If you want well-
      > defined but not bulky pectorals, biceps, romboids, and triceps, take
      > up boxing--with a heavy bag--or become a professional masseuse. Since
      > this group is called "native nutrition" why not "native exercise"?
      > Water carrying, hand-milling, sanding, grinding, mountain-climbing,
      > etc.?

      I recently came across an article that said that muscle definition comes mostly from having little body fat, and it recommended essentially what you did for to achieve that. It is also a matter of having muscle tone (residual tension). Having this doesn't translate to strength.

      > I have seen plenty of heavy duty weight enthusiasts and body builders
      > just turn to mush on long hikes because they don't have the endurance
      > from training only on short intense sets. Such a regimen also
      > increases the likelihood of injury as well as descreased flexibility,
      > not to mention a hulking, ape-like posture.

      Would you say that they guy on http://www.dragondoor.com/v102.html has a hulking, ape-like posture (keep in mind that he's tensing his muscles in the picture)? One of his recommendation to build strength is to do very low rep sets with heavy weights. Another one is using kettlebells; training with these combines weight training with aerobic training. He says these exercises build great overall explosive strength.

      > Whereas a brief but heavy workout almost surely builds bulk and less
      > flexibility, which ultimately results in less usefulness in real life
      > (i.e., useless for everything but muscle posing for photos and maybe
      > arm wrestling and walnut crushing).

      Poor Heidi has been working out for nothing :)

      >Free weights tend to focus on isolated groups, whereas large sweeping weight-bearing motions
      > increase muscle efficiency in a larger and more productive area.

      I don't know what you are picturing yourself, but this is not true. Try lifting a barbell from the floor to beyond your head and tell me if there's a muscle in your body that is not involved. And if you do it the way Pavel Tsatsouline recommends (tensing all your muscles while doing that), even your facial muscles will be working.

      Perhaps, you are thinking of guys sitting in a chair working their wrists or biceps with little free weights. I'd agree that these exercises focus on isolated groups. But we are not talking about those.

      > Large motion exercises include pullups (including assisted); upright
      > tricep press (including assisted); hanging by your hands on a trapeze
      > or bar doing leg lifts or whatever your strength and flexibility
      > allow, using a lower body horse with free weights or simply doing
      > very large arm and back movements; parallel bars,
      <snip>

      Well, I am very good with those but need help to carry a 24 inch TV set for a short distance without getting injured. Talk about usefulness of exercises!

      > Also helpful is rotating fast and slow reps. If you can train your
      > muscle to work fast, you can react quickly to emergencies. A fast 30
      > reps takes the same amount of time as a slow 8.

      I can move my arms very fast, but they don't have much power. Strength is built with resistance. Speed isn't a necessary condition for that.

      > Whereas large muscles like abdominals and gluteals respond best to
      > long, slow, and prolonged stress. That includes yoga.

      I have very, very strong abdominals, comparing to average people. I strengthened them with relatively infrequent, very short (just a few seconds a day once in a while), very high tension exercises, such as trying to maintain a right angle position (back is vertical, legs are horizontal, support with hands only -- the whole body is raised above the ground). I don't doubt that long, slow, and prolonged stress strengthens muscles too, but those exercises simply cannot compare with those I described in effectiveness and efficiency.

      Roman
    • Don Jones
      FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000;Chris, A little late response as I have been having lots of problems with yahoo. My messages don t seem to go through, I
      Message 190 of 190 , Jun 26 1:19 PM
        FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000;Chris,

        A little late response as I have been having lots of problems with yahoo. My messages don't seem to go through, I can't change my mail status, etc. but here I go again.

        I have been doing Olympic Lifting for several years now. It is an axiom among most Olympic lifters and power lifters that the squat is the king of exercises. When I really focused on it as an assistance exercise for the Olympic Lifts, I had very dramatic strength gains. Of course the Olympic Squat is somewhat different than the squat that is associated with bodybuilding routines.

        The dead lift is associated with power lifting and is one of its competition lifts. I do it on ocassion for a change of pace. You actually start from a bent over/semi-squat position. Its best to find someone at the gym who knows how to do it and have them demonstrate it for you.

        I originally learned from a book, but when my Lift Trainer saw me do it he quickly corrected a number of errors that I had been making.

        Michael

        -------Original Message-------

        From: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, June 08, 2003 05:43:23 PM
        To: native-nutrition@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [native-nutrition] Re: Physical training; was NT, weight gain, thyroid


        Thank you for the article Roman. In a newsletter I just got from my gym, the
        trainer's column says the freeweight squat is the #1 exercise to do, which
        works 600 different muscles. He doesn't mention stance though. They have a
        thing at the gym that is for squats which is actually a free-weight setup and not
        a machine, but the weight is loosely guided in a track so if you were to,
        say, drop it it wouldn't fall past a certain point. I haven't used it but that
        is how it seems it works.

        The only thing stopping me from swtiching to free weights is that I always go
        alone, but I can probably get someone there to spot me on the bench press i'm
        sure.

        Does anyone know how the dead weight lift, or whatever it is called is done?
        What is meant by "stand up" with it, and what position do you start in?

        -chris



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