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Re: [nanotech] Re: Bill Joy

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  • Anne Marie Tobias
    ... Actually you point at it yourself... There was a profound relenquishment of technology after the fall of the Roman Empire... we called it the dark ages.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 29, 2000
      At 11:50 PM 7/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
      >
      >
      >Christopher J. Phoenix wrote:
      >
      >>  At 10:06 AM 7/28/00 EDT, telaunt@... wrote:
      >> >I have a question.  Does anyone have an example of a civilization
      >> that
      >> >SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular
      >> technology
      >> >and survived?

      Actually you point at it yourself...

      There was a profound relenquishment of technology after the fall of
      the Roman Empire... we called it the dark ages.

      The Religious Right, today has done a wonderful job of relenquishing
      critical thought, and logical analysis... they've equated blind faith
      and the scientific method as equally valid forms of thinking.

      Hhhmmmmm, the comment was made that there is always a backlash at the
      advent of ne technology... I'm going to expand that, there is always
      a predictable backlash at the outset of any significant change. This
      is particularly nasty, because the rate of change is ever accelerating
      and more and more folks will be caught in the crunch.

      Marie
    • DonSaxman@aol.com
      In a message dated 00-07-28 16:25:40 EDT, you write:
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 29, 2000
        In a message dated 00-07-28 16:25:40 EDT, you write:

        << I have a question. Does anyone have an example of a civilization that
        SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular technology
        and survived? >>


        Stuff that comesa to mind off the top of my head:

        Just about everyone relinguished hydrogen-powered airships.

        The U.S. relinguished street cars and (pretty much) battery-powered vehicles.

        We've relinguished (new) nuclear power plants and virtually all nuclear
        batteries.

        The Japanese relinguished firearms and explosives for over 100 years (then
        re-adopted them with a vengence). They never brought back privately-owned
        firearms, and are nearly a nation without handsguns (government-owned or
        otherwise).

        The Chinese (long long ago) relinguished their entire blue-ocean navy,
        including merchant marine, exploration, and military. They even excised much
        of the literature about ocean-sailing. They still haven't really recovered.

        I could probably think of others, depending on how I define the question. In
        many cases, the civilizations went away for reasons that had nothing to do
        with relinguishment.
      • Steve Wish
        ... two words..... oil and racism..... ... always was a stick to beat the blacks, hispanics and artists with..... prohibition was mostly a way to
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 29, 2000
          Christopher J. Phoenix wrote:

          > At 10:06 AM 7/28/00 EDT, telaunt@... wrote:
          > >I have a question. Does anyone have an example of a civilization
          > that
          > >SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular
          > technology
          > >and survived?
          >
          > Define survived. External conditions change; I don't know whether
          > Japan's
          > relinquishment of guns would have kept working indefinitely if the
          > rest of
          > the world had stayed in 1850 state. It certainly worked for a good
          > long
          > time. I wish I knew more of their history--why did they get into
          > WWII, anyway?
          >

          two words..... oil and racism.....

          > Maybe we should start simpler: what are some examples of attempts at
          > relinquishment, whether successful or unsuccessful? I'm having
          > trouble
          > thinking of many. We could say that America is trying to relinquish
          > recreational psychoactive drugs, but that may have been simply a
          > convenient
          > political issue to erode civil liberties with.

          always was a stick to beat the blacks, hispanics and artists with.....
          prohibition was mostly a way to disinfranchise the irish politicos
          (street gangs) who were bases around a saloon culture.. and so it gos

          > Certainly hemp began as a
          > political/economic rather than moral issue.

          repression of pysco actives has a history that dates back thousands of
          years.... ain't worked yet....won't work ever.... same with fire
          arms.... don't want to be associated with the NRA, but fire arms and
          attempts to repress them have identically long histories

          > On the unsuccessful side,
          > Prohibition didn't last very long, and gave organized crime a strong
          > boost.
          > The Taliban is relinquishing lots of freedom, especially for women;
          > this may
          > or may not count as a technology. It remains to be seen whether
          > they'll be
          > successful. Probably depends on whether they become insular or
          > expansionist. China and the USSR relinquished capitalism; one was
          > broken,
          > the other is slowly changing--but it lasted for decades.
          >

          decades are pretty ephemeral in historical terms... and pretty damn
          long in terms of technologies... with the decentralization of thought
          and technology on the web, i think we can expect a burst of freedom
          unparalleled in human history..... imagine a world were everything is
          availiable, no thought is censored and all knowledge is immediatly
          availiable.... the transparent society is just the first step in the
          nano revolution.....steve w.
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