Re: [nanotech] Re: Bill Joy
- At 11:50 PM 7/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Actually you point at it yourself...
>Christopher J. Phoenix wrote:
>> At 10:06 AM 7/28/00 EDT, telaunt@... wrote:
>> >I have a question. Does anyone have an example of a civilization
>> >SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular
>> >and survived?
There was a profound relenquishment of technology after the fall of
the Roman Empire... we called it the dark ages.
The Religious Right, today has done a wonderful job of relenquishing
critical thought, and logical analysis... they've equated blind faith
and the scientific method as equally valid forms of thinking.
Hhhmmmmm, the comment was made that there is always a backlash at the
advent of ne technology... I'm going to expand that, there is always
a predictable backlash at the outset of any significant change. This
is particularly nasty, because the rate of change is ever accelerating
and more and more folks will be caught in the crunch.
- In a message dated 00-07-28 16:25:40 EDT, you write:
<< I have a question. Does anyone have an example of a civilization that
SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular technology
and survived? >>
Stuff that comesa to mind off the top of my head:
Just about everyone relinguished hydrogen-powered airships.
The U.S. relinguished street cars and (pretty much) battery-powered vehicles.
We've relinguished (new) nuclear power plants and virtually all nuclear
The Japanese relinguished firearms and explosives for over 100 years (then
re-adopted them with a vengence). They never brought back privately-owned
firearms, and are nearly a nation without handsguns (government-owned or
The Chinese (long long ago) relinguished their entire blue-ocean navy,
including merchant marine, exploration, and military. They even excised much
of the literature about ocean-sailing. They still haven't really recovered.
I could probably think of others, depending on how I define the question. In
many cases, the civilizations went away for reasons that had nothing to do
- Christopher J. Phoenix wrote:
> At 10:06 AM 7/28/00 EDT, telaunt@... wrote:two words..... oil and racism.....
> >I have a question. Does anyone have an example of a civilization
> >SUCCESSFULLY took a "relinquishment" policy toward a particular
> >and survived?
> Define survived. External conditions change; I don't know whether
> relinquishment of guns would have kept working indefinitely if the
> rest of
> the world had stayed in 1850 state. It certainly worked for a good
> time. I wish I knew more of their history--why did they get into
> WWII, anyway?
> Maybe we should start simpler: what are some examples of attempts atalways was a stick to beat the blacks, hispanics and artists with.....
> relinquishment, whether successful or unsuccessful? I'm having
> thinking of many. We could say that America is trying to relinquish
> recreational psychoactive drugs, but that may have been simply a
> political issue to erode civil liberties with.
prohibition was mostly a way to disinfranchise the irish politicos
(street gangs) who were bases around a saloon culture.. and so it gos
> Certainly hemp began as arepression of pysco actives has a history that dates back thousands of
> political/economic rather than moral issue.
years.... ain't worked yet....won't work ever.... same with fire
arms.... don't want to be associated with the NRA, but fire arms and
attempts to repress them have identically long histories
> On the unsuccessful side,decades are pretty ephemeral in historical terms... and pretty damn
> Prohibition didn't last very long, and gave organized crime a strong
> The Taliban is relinquishing lots of freedom, especially for women;
> this may
> or may not count as a technology. It remains to be seen whether
> they'll be
> successful. Probably depends on whether they become insular or
> expansionist. China and the USSR relinquished capitalism; one was
> the other is slowly changing--but it lasted for decades.
long in terms of technologies... with the decentralization of thought
and technology on the web, i think we can expect a burst of freedom
unparalleled in human history..... imagine a world were everything is
availiable, no thought is censored and all knowledge is immediatly
availiable.... the transparent society is just the first step in the
nano revolution.....steve w.