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Re: [nanotech] Digest Number 244

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  • Samantha Atkins
    ... There are pretty strong arguments that quantum entanglement is not a real communication of information in any usable sense, that it could be used to pass a
    Message 1 of 6 , May 31, 2000
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      Bruce Bombere wrote:
      >
      > Max wrote:
      > >
      > > > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
      > > > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
      > > > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
      > > > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
      > > > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
      > > > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
      > > > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
      > > > through
      > > > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
      > > > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
      > > > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
      > > > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.
      > >
      > > Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper
      > > division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster
      > > than light, not even information. Even though quantum teleportation
      > > routinely communicates the information of quantum states between entangled
      > > particles INSTANTLY, and even though two major articles, one in nature and
      > > one in PRL, both show experiments in which superluminal events occur, one
      > > using microwaves, the other one using light.

      There are pretty strong arguments that quantum entanglement is not a
      real communication of information in any usable sense, that it could be
      used to pass a message. If you believe it can, then do so. Science is
      open to proves that old assumptions do not hold. That is what it is
      about after all. There is no nonsense in what you were taught. It is
      the state of current theory and scientific consensus. It is correct or
      not.

      > >
      > > Has anyone else had the teacher blatantly lie about something, for didactic
      > > purposes, then wind up telling you a few weeks later that what you learned
      > > and studied was not true?
      > >
      >

      There was no blatant lie and I think you would be well advised to
      practice a bit of the care you accuse your teachers of not practicing.

      - samantha
    • Samantha Atkins
      ... Sigh. THe mind/body dichotomy is a philosophical NOT a scientific position. Please be careful not to confuse the two. At a particular level of
      Message 2 of 6 , May 31, 2000
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        Max wrote:
        >
        > > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
        > > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
        > > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
        > > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
        > > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
        > > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
        > > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
        > > through
        > > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
        > > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
        > > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
        > > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.
        >

        Sigh. THe mind/body dichotomy is a philosophical NOT a scientific
        position. Please be careful not to confuse the two. At a particular
        level of understanding electrons, protons and neutrons ARE the building
        blocks. You seem to thing the evolution of knowledge somehow
        invalidates knowledge. On the contrary it is the prove that science is
        open and growing.

        - s.
      • Max
        ... Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster than
        Message 3 of 6 , May 31, 2000
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          > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
          > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
          > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
          > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
          > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
          > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
          > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
          > through
          > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
          > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
          > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
          > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.

          Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper
          division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster
          than light, not even information. Even though quantum teleportation
          routinely communicates the information of quantum states between entangled
          particles INSTANTLY, and even though two major articles, one in nature and
          one in PRL, both show experiments in which superluminal events occur, one
          using microwaves, the other one using light.


          Has anyone else had the teacher blatantly lie about something, for didactic
          purposes, then wind up telling you a few weeks later that what you learned
          and studied was not true?
        • Bruce Bombere
          ... At the risk of seeming charitable to the academic community, I would venture that the contradictions and confusion that we encounter is indicitive of lack
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 1, 2000
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            Max wrote:
            >
            > > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
            > > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
            > > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
            > > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
            > > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
            > > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
            > > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
            > > through
            > > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
            > > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
            > > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
            > > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.
            >
            > Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper
            > division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster
            > than light, not even information. Even though quantum teleportation
            > routinely communicates the information of quantum states between entangled
            > particles INSTANTLY, and even though two major articles, one in nature and
            > one in PRL, both show experiments in which superluminal events occur, one
            > using microwaves, the other one using light.
            >
            > Has anyone else had the teacher blatantly lie about something, for didactic
            > purposes, then wind up telling you a few weeks later that what you learned
            > and studied was not true?
            >


            At the risk of seeming charitable to the academic community,
            I would venture that the contradictions and confusion that we
            encounter is indicitive of lack of clarity of theory. I would think
            that the academics would have more to gain by maintaining an open
            sense of wonder rather than a closed sense of certainty, teaching
            and learning would be less dissonant and more "organic" if theories
            weren't often at odds. I don't think that it's a matter of having
            perfected science, but rather the method. It might seem to be less
            of a lie if things were presented, "This is some informational stuff,
            but there is more stuff after this." Instead, it's "This is the way it
            is, until you hear different, which might be at any time."
            Perhaps there is a doppler effect with Truth, it goes by so fast
            that it sounds different.
            _____________________________________________
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          • Bruce Bombere
            ... Superluminal(?) Velocities Tunneling time, barrier penetration, non-trivial vacua, philosophy of physics Relativizing Relativity Special relativity theory
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 1, 2000
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              Max wrote:
              >
              > > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
              > > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
              > > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
              > > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
              > > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
              > > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
              > > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
              > > through
              > > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
              > > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
              > > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
              > > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.
              >
              > Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper
              > division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster
              > than light, not even information. Even though quantum teleportation
              > routinely communicates the information of quantum states between entangled
              > particles INSTANTLY, and even though two major articles, one in nature and
              > one in PRL, both show experiments in which superluminal events occur, one
              > using microwaves, the other one using light.
              >
              > Has anyone else had the teacher blatantly lie about something, for didactic
              > purposes, then wind up telling you a few weeks later that what you learned
              > and studied was not true?
              >
              >

              Superluminal(?) Velocities

              Tunneling time, barrier penetration,
              non-trivial vacua, philosophy of physics

              Relativizing Relativity
              Special relativity theory is generalized to more
              than one signalling speed used for synchronization.
              Particular emphasis is given to the discussion of
              "quasi-time paradoxa."

              Superluminal tunneling

              http://www.uni-koeln.de/~abb11/workshop/announce.html
              _____________________________________________
              NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
              Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
              http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
            • Bruce Bombere
              ... 4.7 Light Speed Superluminal signal velocities have been measured by Enders and Nimtz [4, 5, 6]. The experiments were carried out with AM microwaves in
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 1, 2000
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                Max wrote:
                >
                > > I grew up being taught the nonsense of Western Science, such things
                > > as the mind/body dichotomy, when in fact mind is a physical thing.
                > > Taught that electrons, protons, and neutrons are the building blocks,
                > > when these particles also come apart. Taught that the speed of light
                > > is absolute and that's as fast as you can go or else your head will
                > > explode, but things go faster through Higgs' Field Space, many times
                > > faster than normal light speed. If a microwave message is squirted
                > > through
                > > a Higgs' Field portal, it would be possible to have a question answered
                > > before it was asked. I like the strings because of the confusing
                > > explanations that I've gotten about light being waves or particles,
                > > string makes eminent good sense, and can fit gravity into the mix.
                >
                > Talk about nonsense. Today in Physics 17 (last freshman class before upper
                > division) we were taught about relativity and that NOTHING can go faster
                > than light, not even information. Even though quantum teleportation
                > routinely communicates the information of quantum states between entangled
                > particles INSTANTLY, and even though two major articles, one in nature and
                > one in PRL, both show experiments in which superluminal events occur, one
                > using microwaves, the other one using light.
                >
                > Has anyone else had the teacher blatantly lie about something, for didactic
                > purposes, then wind up telling you a few weeks later that what you learned
                > and studied was not true?
                >
                >

                4.7 Light Speed

                Superluminal signal velocities have been measured
                by Enders and Nimtz [4, 5, 6]. The experiments were
                carried out with AM microwaves in undersized
                waveguides and in periodic dielectric heterostructures.
                The measured propagation time of a pulse is shown in Fig. 4.
                The microwave pulse has traveled either through air or
                it has crossed an evanescent barrier [6]. The linewidth
                of the pulse represents the signal. The experimental result
                is that the tunneled signal has passed the airborne signal
                at a superluminal velocity of 4.7c. The measurements of the
                traversal time are carried out under vacuum-like conditions
                at the exit of the evanescent region.

                http://compu-web.com/archive/leipzig/
                _____________________________________________
                NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
                Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
                http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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