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Re: [nanotech] Re: Gagnon Interview, Public Accessibility, and NT Industry Gr...

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  • forbes4nano@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/30/2004 8:38:17 PM Central Daylight Time, ... This is starting to resemble the Drexler/Smalley debate. A lot of mouthing off and nothing
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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      In a message dated 4/30/2004 8:38:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
      tventura6@... writes:

      >
      >
      > Wow, Mark -- that's really vicious.
      >
      >
      This is starting to resemble the Drexler/Smalley debate. A lot of mouthing
      off and nothing really constructive being accomplished.

      forbes4nano


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Kern
      Dear esteemed members of the nanotechnology newsgroup; As we all know, science involves the testing of hypothosis through controlled experiments in order to
      Message 2 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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        Dear esteemed members of the nanotechnology newsgroup;

        As we all know, science involves the testing of hypothosis through controlled experiments in order to form theories about how the world around us functions. It also involves the exploration of the unknown. Now, I'm not entirely sure about all of the things Mr. Ventura posted on the group site, but I'm certainly unwilling to dismiss, outright, something that is foreign to my knowledge base.

        However, as Mark stated, a red flag is raised when someone who is, one moment talking about pure research applications, begins talking about easy money. Another red flag is raised when that same person trys to sell you a device to help you make money! Saying this, I can wholly agree with Mark's point. I will disagree, however, with the way he chose to respond. I would hate for this group to become a bogged-down-anger-fest of name calling. How juvenile would that be?

        Now, as I have said, science is what we should all be concerned with here; for it is the persuit of truth and understanding of the unknown. So, if someone is willing, parhaps an experiment is in order. I'm sure that if there was anything to this fabulos line of research, the origional scientists would want others to get involved. So that would mean that all of their notes and papers on the subject would be published! Ergo, if there are papers and notes, parhaps that means the experiments are repeatable in a controlled setting. As well, the results should be reproduceable anywhere.

        So if this is the case, I would encourage Mr.Ventura to allow free scientific access to all of the documents surrounding these areas and leave it to others, to attempt to recreate the research, and to test the theories surrounding it in a controlled environment. Unfortunatly, I will be concentrated in other directions in which I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

        Keep Smiling,
        Engineer_MK

        forbes4nano@... wrote:
        In a message dated 4/30/2004 8:38:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
        tventura6@... writes:

        >
        >
        > Wow, Mark -- that's really vicious.
        >
        >
        This is starting to resemble the Drexler/Smalley debate. A lot of mouthing
        off and nothing really constructive being accomplished.

        forbes4nano


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Mark Gubrud
        People who want to play around with tesla coils, homemade lasers, ion-wind model flying saucers, and similar toys are free to do so. And people who want to
        Message 3 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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          People who want to play around with tesla coils, homemade lasers,
          ion-wind model flying saucers, and similar toys are free to do so. And
          people who want to conduct crackpot pseudoresearch into cold fusion and
          paraphysics are free to do that. And people who want to sell them
          plans, parts, physicsbabble books, and shares in moonshine corporations
          are free to do that. I can't stop them. I guess it's better than
          watching TV or opening fire on the local shopping mall.

          But please, I'm free to call all this what it is, and why should I
          strive to be polite about it?

          You've got such a wide range of people here. Some are just kids who
          want to do science fair projects and don't know real science from
          pseudoscience. Some are adults who might have wanted to be scientists
          but didn't make it in school, or are retired, or are just crazy. For
          some it is a social activity. For others it is a lone quest. Some are
          level-headed scientists or technicians who understand what they are
          doing and just like to have some fun. Others are off into some
          alternative space of weird ideas that they've invented or borrowed.
          Some are drug freaks, and some just like playing around with cryptic
          symbols or stuff that makes sparks and ozone and let's them fantasize
          about being Marconi or proving that Einstein was wrong. For some
          people, pseudoscience is a kind of eccentric art form, for others its an
          extension of a personal New Age (often meaning middle age). For others
          it's a business, and for some it is quite a lucrative one.

          Some people lose their life savings investing in these medicine shows,
          and others get filthy rich running them. That's really the only part of
          it that makes me angry.

          But there is also something to be concerned about in the pollution of
          science by fakery, babble and commercial ripoffs. There's quite a bit
          of this turning up within the university and government-funded and major
          corporate labs these days, as well as out in the garages of America.
          "Science" television and journalism is increasingly polluted by
          pseudoscience and mindboggle. Who cares what real scientists think?
          (If they're so smart, why aren't they rich?)

          And there is something to be concerned about in the confusion of
          nanotechnology and speculative or visionary ideas in nanotechnology with
          pseudoscience and bogus ideas. So I do my best to discourage the
          antigravity and zero point energy crowd from advertising here.
        • Azazel Guevarra
          I will have to agree. And it is a hard case to crack. But Nanotechnology has a major role in the advancement of this world. We cant afford another mishap. We
          Message 4 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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            I will have to agree. And it is a hard case to crack. But
            Nanotechnology has a major role in the advancement of this world. We
            cant afford another mishap. We are here to merge into dyalic
            interaction that involves intuion(primitive, basic ) and categories
            of proper understanding. Intuitions without concepts would be a
            blind man typing away... Dont let emotions cloud your sunny skies.
            NVEC looks good.
          • Eugen Leitl
            ... Apropos of science (I m siding firmly with Mark here): Nanomedicine IIa is out as full-text HTML (along with Nanomedicine I, of course):
            Message 5 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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              On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 04:20:48PM -0400, Mark Gubrud wrote:

              > And there is something to be concerned about in the confusion of
              > nanotechnology and speculative or visionary ideas in nanotechnology with
              > pseudoscience and bogus ideas. So I do my best to discourage the
              > antigravity and zero point energy crowd from advertising here.

              Apropos of science (I'm siding firmly with Mark here): Nanomedicine IIa is
              out as full-text HTML (along with Nanomedicine I, of course):

              http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMIIA.htm

              Amazon link here:
              http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570597006/104-3324477-6502326

              --
              Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
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              ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org
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              http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


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