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Re: [nanotech] Continuing Research on Supercomputers and NanoTech

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  • Mark Gubrud
    This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as well. Mark Avrum Gubrud
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 6, 2004
      This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as well.

      Mark Avrum Gubrud

      John Bell wrote:
      >
      > We have received considerable responses to our posts concerning our
      > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to contact
      > me directly at crystalware@... concerning certain
      > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
      > jbmichaels@....
      >
      > The TA15 is still under development and we are still requesting
      > support from investors and engineers as we work on this project.
      > Today I will change gears a little and discuss the development of
      > the PAT001 Android and throw out a few general questions.
      >
      > Obviously the problems of walking and balanced have been solved with
      > newer advanced gyros, yet there is a question of design which is of
      > a more biological nature versus machine.. and in this divergence or
      > symbiosis - using new nano motion power generation and other types
      > of coolant MEM applications.
      >
      > The AI nueral network.. will probably go even deeper than a 6th
      > dimensional construct.. and it is quite possible a long over due
      > reworking of our present mathematical systems..much as jumping from
      > 2d to flat land on a much greater scale in in order.
      >
      > There are numerous idoiosyncracies when applying our current
      > measurements of space time over light year distances, this is what I
      > would consider a breakdown in the math system per se and a need for
      > a much more advanced system. This is of course can only be
      > effectively implemented on connective and higher based computation
      > power and more sophisticated wave type algorhythms transcending the
      > locked in byte technology and so forth.
      >
      > I am also looking at the problem of observing MEM function with our
      > limited observation tools and it has been suggested that using a
      > magnetic and gravitational fused field could provide a device where
      > we could observe things on the atomic level without causing severe
      > disruption by the observation tool itself.
      >
      > It is still my believe that given the coming emerging nanotech and
      > sub-sub atomic physics which will introduce us into wave-particle
      > contructs we are still looking at interdimensional oscillation,
      > although this model seems to be losing favor in the scientific
      > community. Yet in balancing all of the energy and matter created and
      > destroyed - which is not destroyed.. and explained planes of zero
      > probability which are crossed.. hosts of theority jargon has been
      > flung about which in actuality does not explain the phenomena nor
      > enable us to duplicate or recreate it to any predicatable amount.
      >
      > The creation of PAT001 - will involve a significant amount of Nano
      > and probably a new Math as well as a sizable quantum jump in our
      > current understanding of particle and wave physics.
      >
      > Despite some techie stone throwing, we still are looking for support
      > and even more brain power to help us at Crystalware achieve the
      > extreme goals we have set to accomplish.
      >
      > jb
      > ceo
      > Crystalware
      >
      > The Nanotechnology Industries mailing list.
      > "Nanotechnology: solutions for the future."
      > www.nanoindustries.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nanotech/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > nanotech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • toscanatoskana
      MarK, I agree completely ... well. ... our ... /
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 7, 2004
        MarK,

        I agree completely



        --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud <mgubrud@s...> wrote:
        > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
        well.
        >
        > Mark Avrum Gubrud
        >
        > John Bell wrote:
        > >
        > > We have received considerable responses to our posts concerning
        our
        > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to contact
        > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
        > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
        > > jbmichaels@h...
        /
      • alistair tweed
        Me too! Thanks for the recent posts, Mark, toscana, jmh, raghu, ray. It is nice to have some sensible and cooperative input to this forum. I look forward to
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 7, 2004
          Me too! 
           
          Thanks for the recent posts, Mark, toscana, jmh, raghu, ray.  It is nice to have some sensible and cooperative input to this forum.
           
          I look forward to more.
           
          Cheers,
           
          Tumble

          toscanatoskana wrote:
          MarK,

          I agree completely



          --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud wrote:
          > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
          well.
          >
          > Mark Avrum Gubrud
          >
          > John Bell wrote:
          > >
          > > We have received considerable responses to our posts concerning
          our
          > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to contact
          > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
          > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
          > > jbmichaels@h...
        • John Bell
          None of the posts on the TA15 are nonsense and we are continuing our research at a government lab with government funding. This is not a fraud or a a scam or
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 8, 2004
            None of the posts on the TA15 are nonsense and we are continuing our
            research at a government lab with government funding. This is not a
            fraud or a a scam or any such thing, and I am amazed at the high
            school level of dialogue which some of the members of this forum has
            resorted to.

            Obviously, the concepts and implementation is not something that we
            would post specifics of on a public forum such as this. It is
            proprietary information.

            I have been in the computer business and a serious programmer since
            desktop computers were invented and probably when many of you were
            crawling around in pampers, and the insult to my company, our work,
            and the absolutely groundless and juvenile comments of several of
            the members here are not only insulting but demonstrative of level
            one minds who have no vision or perception of our research.

            Being hard at work in developing the new language CAIO, working on
            the Swarm Project, and a host of other items has prevented me from
            even having the time to engage in this character bashing and
            juvenile commentary on my company which has existed since 1981 and
            can be looked up on Dunn and Bradstreet.

            In fact, I invented many of the software routines and concepts used
            in modern computer graphics and gaming.

            I have contacted Nanogirl and am requesting a retraction of the
            entire inflammatory thread and hostile comments since my
            announcement of the development of the supercomputer.

            The breakthroughs in this area and the new insights into our
            development will change the face of modern computing. The fact that
            many in here lack the vision and basic intellect to understand what
            is being worked on, is certainly no reason to act like a group of
            high school students with absolutely groundless ridicule and a
            monumental display of a group lack of intelligence I have not seen
            since my sophmore year in high school.

            Be that as it may. Opinions are one thing. Personal attack,
            character assassination, cries of fraud and scams are beyond
            ridiculous. One single comment to several pseudo intellects posting
            here.. Grow up.

            John Bell
            CEO
            Crystalware

            as for the TA15

            learn to live with it
            it will change your lives and the world of computing as you know it.
            Fortunately, the more knowledgeable people in the industry,
            currently knowedeable, are working with us, not laughing at us.

            Any great inventor is first ignored, then laughed at, then attacked,
            and eventually respected. I surely look forward to the day when the
            lot of psuedo intellects looking at the manufactured final product
            will scratch their heads and say... damn.. I guess we were wrong...
            because you are.









            --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, alistair tweed <tumble23_2000@y...>
            wrote:
            > Me too!
            >
            > Thanks for the recent posts, Mark, toscana, jmh, raghu, ray. It
            is nice to have some sensible and cooperative input to this forum.
            >
            > I look forward to more.
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Tumble
            >
            > toscanatoskana <toscanaservice@l...> wrote:
            > MarK,
            >
            > I agree completely
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud wrote:
            > > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
            > well.
            > >
            > > Mark Avrum Gubrud
            > >
            > > John Bell wrote:
            > > >
            > > > We have received considerable responses to our posts
            concerning
            > our
            > > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to
            contact
            > > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
            > > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
            > > > jbmichaels@h...
            > /
          • John Bell
            Agree on the basis of what? You in depth research on the concepts involved and our work. Have you even bothered to check out the company, my contributions over
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 8, 2004
              Agree on the basis of what? You in depth research on the concepts
              involved and our work. Have you even bothered to check out the
              company, my contributions over the last three decades from the
              company originally based in Silicon Valley. This is all
              pure "slamming" with absolutely not an once of research or
              intelligent logical thought. And I personally am insulted by this
              and request an apology and retraction of this.

              jb
              ceo
              crystalware





              --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, "toscanatoskana"
              <toscanaservice@l...> wrote:
              > MarK,
              >
              > I agree completely
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud <mgubrud@s...> wrote:
              > > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
              > well.
              > >
              > > Mark Avrum Gubrud
              > >
              > > John Bell wrote:
              > > >
              > > > We have received considerable responses to our posts
              concerning
              > our
              > > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to
              contact
              > > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
              > > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
              > > > jbmichaels@h...
              > /
            • Mark Gubrud
              ... This says something about government labs and government funding. I find that these days there is abundant commercial fraud receiving government contracts
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 8, 2004
                John Bell wrote:
                >
                > None of the posts on the TA15 are nonsense and we are continuing our
                > research at a government lab with government funding.

                This says something about government labs and government funding. I
                find that these days there is abundant commercial fraud receiving
                government contracts and far too much of it found in academia as well,
                this despite the signs being transparent to any technically literate
                person reviewing published statements of the persons or companies
                receiving these contracts.

                > This is not a fraud or a a scam or any such thing,

                You let us know if you change your mind about that.

                > In fact, I invented many of the software routines and concepts used
                > in modern computer graphics and gaming.

                I'm skeptical about such a claim, but it could easily be true. You may
                have developed some graphics and gaming software. But you are making
                stock science-fiction claims now, and some of what you have posted has
                been obvious nonsense.

                To wit:

                > Obviously the problems of walking and balanced have been solved with
                > newer advanced gyros,

                The Honda robots are the state-of-the-art for android walking and
                balancing. Their success has little to do with "advanced gyros" which
                have been available for decades. It is the anthropomorphic (reverse-)
                engineering of the skeletal motor system, including careful attention to
                balance and gait, plus the control algorithms, which are also
                state-of-the-art, biomorphic and inspired by "fuzzy logic" and the
                "subsumption architecture," which accounts for the superior performance
                of these machines.

                > this divergence or
                > symbiosis - using new nano motion power generation and other types
                > of coolant MEM applications.

                Is this anything more than gibberish?

                > The AI nueral network.. will probably go even deeper than a 6th
                > dimensional construct.. and it is quite possible a long over due
                > reworking of our present mathematical systems..much as jumping from
                > 2d to flat land on a much greater scale in in order.
                >
                > There are numerous idoiosyncracies when applying our current
                > measurements of space time over light year distances, this is what I
                > would consider a breakdown in the math system per se and a need for
                > a much more advanced system. This is of course can only be
                > effectively implemented on connective and higher based computation
                > power and more sophisticated wave type algorhythms transcending the
                > locked in byte technology and so forth.
                >
                > I am also looking at the problem of observing MEM function with our
                > limited observation tools and it has been suggested that using a
                > magnetic and gravitational fused field could provide a device where
                > we could observe things on the atomic level without causing severe
                > disruption by the observation tool itself.
                >
                > It is still my believe that given the coming emerging nanotech and
                > sub-sub atomic physics which will introduce us into wave-particle
                > contructs we are still looking at interdimensional oscillation,
                > although this model seems to be losing favor in the scientific
                > community. Yet in balancing all of the energy and matter created and
                > destroyed - which is not destroyed.. and explained planes of zero
                > probability which are crossed.. hosts of theority jargon has been
                > flung about which in actuality does not explain the phenomena nor
                > enable us to duplicate or recreate it to any predicatable amount.

                Anybody who enters into a business relationship with you as at least as
                big a fool as you are, and probably bigger.

                Mark Avrum Gubrud
              • joshua bailey
                hello my name is joshua. I m just a normal 21 year old guy, and i joined this list to keep my fingers on the pulse of nanotechnology. a lot of people seem to
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 8, 2004

                  hello my name is joshua. I'm just a normal 21 year old guy, and i joined this list to keep my fingers on the pulse of nanotechnology. a lot of people seem to think a lot of stuff on this list is fiction, and i�feel they are wrong. if you follow the bible any, it states that humans are the "children of god". if that is true then it implies that we will one day grow up. that day is very close. we will soon reach a form of godhood via technological advancement. machines are the first step in making this leap possible. my only fear is that we will destroy ourselves before it comes to pass. to all of those helping to bring new technology into light keep in mind the story of Pandora's box. good luck to you all.
                  ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������� joshua


                • alistair tweed
                  Agree on the basis of what? .... This is all pure slamming with absolutely not an once of research or intelligent logical thought. Do some research. This
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                    "Agree on the basis of what? .... This is all pure "slamming" with absolutely not an once of research or intelligent logical thought."
                     
                    "Do some research. This is a scape goat level one attack on our
                    company and I truly believe one of you should have done a little
                    research. "
                     
                    "And I personally am insulted by this and request an apology and retraction of this. "
                     
                    Well, Jon, I am sorry that you feel insulted and I apologise.  It wasn't my intent to upset by agreeing with Mark and toscanatoskana.  I just happen to agree with them on this one.
                     
                    I think there are some things to consider: 
                     
                    The internet is a fantastic place to discuss things.  As we are doing now.  This should be welcomed.
                     
                    The internet is a fantastic place to exercise free speech.  As you have done, as Mark has done, as toscanatoskana has done and as I have done.  This is right and proper that we should be able to do so.  If we are going to express opinions in a free environment, we can't be too sensitive.  Other people are free to disagree with us in ways we don't like and we just have to accept that.
                     
                    The internet is a wonderful place for wierdos.  And God bless each and every one of their pointy little heads!  Depending on your own opinions, individuals can seem sane or madder than a bucket full of eels.  It is quite possible that you think I fall into the latter category.  Fine.  I really don't mind.
                     
                    Personally, I find some of your opinions rather strange.  To illustrate,
                    I would like to quote from some of your earlier mails as Mark has done, but unfortunately I tend to delete all your mails.  However, I am happy to quote from your website:
                     
                    "We are continuing to seek out investors..."
                    "We are currently looking for additional ...investors in the CAIO project at crystalware."
                     
                    So it is in you interests to do a fair bit of grandstanding on this forum, then?
                     
                    "pneumonic" - I think you mean mnemonic don't you?
                     
                    And my personal favourite:
                    "We are also co-hosting the JBMichaels UFO book site and archives..."
                    "Some refused to leave New York after the terrorists set off the 300 megaton nuclear device. The radiation was so bad that..."  and so it goes on.
                     
                    If you are trying to portray your company as a serious proposition for investors, I would recommend ditching this sort of thing.  It makes you come across as paranoid and delusional.
                     
                    "Any great inventor is first ignored, then laughed at, then attacked,
                    and eventually respected. I surely look forward to the day when the
                    lot of psuedo intellects looking at the manufactured final product
                    will scratch their heads and say... damn.. I guess we were wrong...
                    because you are."
                     
                    Jon, I am prepared to admit that there is a chance, however slim, that you might be right.  However, as a small investor in nanotech, the risk/reward ratio is looking a bit too scary for me to start writing you any cheques.  I will agree again with Mark when he says "Anybody who enters into a business relationship with you as at least as big a fool as you are, and probably bigger." and apologise in advance for any additional offence I may have caused by agreeing with Mark again.
                     
                    However I wish you the best of luck in you endevours!  Prove us wrong and delight us all.
                     
                    Tumble

                    John Bell wrote:
                    Agree on the basis of what? You in depth research on the concepts
                    involved and our work. Have you even bothered to check out the
                    company, my contributions over the last three decades from the
                    company originally based in Silicon Valley. This is all
                    pure "slamming" with absolutely not an once of research or
                    intelligent logical thought. And I personally am insulted by this
                    and request an apology and retraction of this.

                    jb
                    ceo
                    crystalware





                    --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, "toscanatoskana"
                    wrote:
                    > MarK,
                    >
                    > I agree completely
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud wrote:
                    > > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
                    > well.
                    > >
                    > > Mark Avrum Gubrud
                    > >
                    > > John Bell wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > We have received considerable responses to our posts
                    concerning
                    > our
                    > > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to
                    contact
                    > > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
                    > > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
                    > > > jbmichaels@h...
                    > /



                    The Nanotechnology Industries mailing list.
                    "Nanotechnology: solutions for the future."
                    www.nanoindustries.com
                  • donpatent
                    http://crystalwareinc.com/ Lots of stars. Anything else? Where s the beef?
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                      http://crystalwareinc.com/

                      Lots of stars. Anything else? Where's the beef?
                    • John Bell
                      ... (Mark Gubrud is a graduate student in experimental physics at the University of Maryland, College Park.) ... with ... which ... (reverse-) ... attention to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                        --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud <mgubrud@s...> wrote:
                        (Mark Gubrud is a graduate student in experimental
                        physics at the University of Maryland, College Park.)

                        >
                        > > Obviously the problems of walking and balanced have been solved
                        with
                        > > newer advanced gyros,
                        >
                        > The Honda robots are the state-of-the-art for android walking and
                        > balancing. Their success has little to do with "advanced gyros"
                        which
                        > have been available for decades. It is the anthropomorphic
                        (reverse-)
                        > engineering of the skeletal motor system, including careful
                        attention to
                        > balance and gait, plus the control algorithms, which are also
                        > state-of-the-art, biomorphic and inspired by "fuzzy logic" and the
                        > "subsumption architecture," which accounts for the superior
                        performance
                        > of these machines.

                        I would disagree concerning that the Honda robots are state of the
                        art in the field of robotics. Of course that is the difference
                        between reading articles on the net, and talking to researchers
                        perosnally in the field, who like us are developing and building
                        robots. Fuzzy logic has been around for decades and is definitely
                        not state of the art. Although, I will grant you my information is
                        second hand from one of the top robotic people who has worked at IBM
                        for 30 years and made to comment to me on the phone a week ago when
                        we were watching a new film from (not sure if it was Hitachi) of
                        dancing robots and their new announcement of a breakthrough in the
                        field. I will see if I can get you a link to that site. Since in my
                        mind, it is superior to attempt to duplicate the way in which the
                        human body accomplishes a task than to use more primitive
                        simulations or primitive algorithms, the use of newly developed nano
                        type balance micro machines would seem to be a more advanced and
                        more energy and so forth. However I have only built so many robots
                        personally, so not being familiar with your knowledge and first
                        hands on experience in robot building and programming (having down
                        some of the first robot programming in assembly code about 24 years
                        ago) a link to what you consider to be state of the art would be
                        useful in comparitive research as we continue moving towards
                        building our androids.

                        >
                        > > this divergence or
                        > > symbiosis - using new nano motion power generation and other
                        types
                        > > of coolant MEM applications.
                        >
                        > Is this anything more than gibberish?

                        Is is not gibberish to the manufactures who have contacted us and
                        are working with nano power sources that convert movement into
                        energy as would be used in our Swarm application.
                        >
                        > > The AI nueral network.. will probably go even deeper than a 6th
                        > > dimensional construct.. and it is quite possible a long over due
                        > > reworking of our present mathematical systems..much as jumping
                        from
                        > > 2d to flat land on a much greater scale in in order.
                        > >
                        > > There are numerous idoiosyncracies when applying our current
                        > > measurements of space time over light year distances, this is
                        what I
                        > > would consider a breakdown in the math system per se and a need
                        for
                        > > a much more advanced system. This is of course can only be
                        > > effectively implemented on connective and higher based
                        computation
                        > > power and more sophisticated wave type algorhythms transcending
                        the
                        > > locked in byte technology and so forth.
                        > >
                        > > I am also looking at the problem of observing MEM function with
                        our
                        > > limited observation tools and it has been suggested that using a
                        > > magnetic and gravitational fused field could provide a device
                        where
                        > > we could observe things on the atomic level without causing
                        severe
                        > > disruption by the observation tool itself.
                        > >
                        > > It is still my believe that given the coming emerging nanotech
                        and
                        > > sub-sub atomic physics which will introduce us into wave-particle
                        > > contructs we are still looking at interdimensional oscillation,
                        > > although this model seems to be losing favor in the scientific
                        > > community. Yet in balancing all of the energy and matter created
                        and
                        > > destroyed - which is not destroyed.. and explained planes of zero
                        > > probability which are crossed.. hosts of theority jargon has been
                        > > flung about which in actuality does not explain the phenomena nor
                        > > enable us to duplicate or recreate it to any predicatable amount.
                        >
                        > Anybody who enters into a business relationship with you as at
                        least as
                        > big a fool as you are, and probably bigger.

                        Well Mark, you have digressed from intellectual exchange to name
                        calling and thereby distinguished yourself. For the rest of the
                        readers who have written me encouraging letters and also given us a
                        great deal of useful information and new innovations in the field of
                        nanotech, it is worth receiving letters like this, however
                        unpleasant and completely devoid of any useful information they are.

                        JB







                        > Mark Avrum Gubrud
                      • John Bell
                        ... joined this list to keep my fingers on the pulse of nanotechnology. a lot of people seem to think a lot of stuff on this list is fiction, and i feel they
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                          --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, joshua bailey <machina_world@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > hello my name is joshua. I'm just a normal 21 year old guy, and i
                          joined this list to keep my fingers on the pulse of nanotechnology.
                          a lot of people seem to think a lot of stuff on this list is
                          fiction, and i feel they are wrong. if you follow the bible any, it
                          states that humans are the "children of god". if that is true then
                          it implies that we will one day grow up. that day is very close. we
                          will soon reach a form of godhood via technological advancement.
                          machines are the first step in making this leap possible. my only
                          fear is that we will destroy ourselves before it comes to pass. to
                          all of those helping to bring new technology into light keep in mind
                          the story of Pandora's box. good luck to you all.
                          >
                          >
                          joshua

                          Your post and your vision is refreshing. As we near advances in
                          creating new human like machines, we come closer and closer to
                          creating a person with emotions, feelings, and even the ability to
                          become self aware. Hopefully we will not blow each other up or that
                          which we create will not turn around and feel (and quite justly so)
                          that we are not really all that necessary, in fact, we are more of
                          an infestation than a useful creation. Good luck to you too Joshua,
                          and may you have a long life of learning and discovery before you.

                          jb
                          ceo
                          Crystalware
                        • Josh Faulkner
                          Indeed, nanotechnology is very interesting and I don t think it s 30 years away. From what I ve read it s already in place. What is your background Joshua?
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                            Indeed, nanotechnology is very interesting and I don't
                            think it's 30 years away. From what I've read it's
                            already in place. What is your background Joshua?

                            Josh

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                          • alistair tweed
                            Agree on the basis of what? .... This is all pure slamming with absolutely not an once of research or intelligent logical thought. Do some research. This
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 9, 2004
                              "Agree on the basis of what? .... This is all pure "slamming" with absolutely not an once of research or intelligent logical thought."
                              "Do some research. This is a scape goat level one attack on our
                              company and I truly believe one of you should have done a little
                              research. "
                              "And I personally am insulted by this and request an apology and retraction of this. "
                               
                              Well, Jon, I am sorry that you feel insulted and I apologise.  It wasn't my intent to upset by agreeing with Mark and toscanatoskana.  I just happen to agree with him on this one.
                               
                              I think there are some things to consider: 
                               
                              The internet is a fantastic place to discuss things.  As we are doing now.  This should be welcomed.
                               
                              The internet is a fantastic place to exercise free speech.  As you have done, as Mark has done, as toscanatoskana has done and as I have done.  This is right and proper that we should be able to do so.  If we are going to express opinions in a free environment, we can't be too sensitive.  Other people are free to disagree with us in ways we don't like and we just have to accept that.
                               
                              The internet is a wonderful place for wierdos.  And God bless each and every one of their pointy little heads!  Depending on your own opinions, individuals can seem sane or madder than a bucket full of eels.  It is quite possible that you think I fall into the latter category.  Fine.  I really don't mind.
                               
                              Personally, I find some of your opinions rather strange.  To illustrate,
                              I would like to quote from some of your earlier mails as Mark has done, but unfortunately I tend to delete all your mails.  However, I am happy to quote from your website:
                              http://www.crystalwareinc.com/
                              "We are continuing to seek out investors..."
                              http://www.crystalwareinc.com/caio/
                              "We are currently looking for additional ...investors in the CAIO project at crystalware."
                               
                              So it is in you interests to do a fair bit of grandstanding on this forum, then?
                               
                              http://www.crystalwareinc.com/caio/
                              "pneumonic" - I think you mean mnemonic don't you?
                               
                              And my personal favourite:
                              http://www.crystalwareinc.com/Crystalware/index.html
                              "We are also co-hosting the JBMichaels UFO book site and archives..."
                              "Some refused to leave New York after the terrorists set off the 300 megaton nuclear device. The radiation was so bad that..."  and so it goes on.
                               
                              If you are trying to portray your company as a serious proposition for investors, I would recommend ditching this sort of thing.  It makes you come across as paranoid and delusional.
                               
                              "Any great inventor is first ignored, then laughed at, then attacked,
                              and eventually respected. I surely look forward to the day when the
                              lot of psuedo intellects looking at the manufactured final product
                              will scratch their heads and say... damn.. I guess we were wrong...
                              because you are."
                               
                              Jon, I am prepared to admit that there is a chance, however slim, that you might be right.  However, as a small investor in nanotech, the risk/reward ratio is looking a bit too scary for me to start writing you any cheques.  I will agree again with Mark when he says "Anybody who enters into a business relationship with you as at least as big a fool as you are, and probably bigger." and apologise in advance for any additional offence I may have caused by agreeing with Mark again.
                               
                              However I wish you the best of luck in you endevours!  Prove us wrong and delight us all.
                               
                              Tumble

                              John Bell wrote:
                              Agree on the basis of what? You in depth research on the concepts
                              involved and our work. Have you even bothered to check out the
                              company, my contributions over the last three decades from the
                              company originally based in Silicon Valley. This is all
                              pure "slamming" with absolutely not an once of research or
                              intelligent logical thought. And I personally am insulted by this
                              and request an apology and retraction of this.

                              jb
                              ceo
                              crystalware





                              --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, "toscanatoskana"
                              wrote:
                              > MarK,
                              >
                              > I agree completely
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In nanotech@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gubrud wrote:
                              > > This person is clearly spinning nonsense and I suspect fraud as
                              > well.
                              > >
                              > > Mark Avrum Gubrud
                              > >
                              > > John Bell wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > We have received considerable responses to our posts
                              concerning
                              > our
                              > > > research activities. I have left a message for Nanogirl to
                              contact
                              > > > me directly at crystalware@c... concerning certain
                              > > > posts that we have made. I can also be reached at ICQ 521323
                              > > > jbmichaels@h...
                              > /



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                            • joshua bailey
                              my background? lol. i am 21 from VA and i read way too much. i am worried most about what changes machines will bring to our society (if we survive them) in
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 10, 2004

                                my background? lol.  i am 21 from VA and i read way too much. i am worried most about what changes machines will bring to our society (if we survive them) in the wrong hands this technology is extremely dangerous, and i feel that we as humans are in over our heads so to say. we are not simple not ready. we as a race are not ready for the extreme changes that will come about because of these tiny machines (immortality, advanced space travel, ETC) i very seriously doubt we will survive. but its a better way to go out than the black rain of nuclear fallout. i have a lot of science theories but i will never share them for the fear that my ideas will be used as weapons. i do not want riches, i do not want fame. my only wish is peace (like thats ever going to happen). i am a Christan, and i pray every day for Jesus swift return. that seems to me the only way out of this deadly trap we have set for ourselves. it not that I'm against technology, I'm actually all for it. its that i know humans all to well being one and all lol. and human nature seems to be focused around war. again i offer the plea to all those helping to develop new advanced technology... be very careful and i hope that you are kind hearted enough to use your ideas for good not evil. good luck, i will be watching as always....
                                 
                                                                                          Joshua


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                              • jameel shaik
                                joshua, ur right.technology in the wrong hands is always dangerous.only the ALMIGHTY should show us the right way and guide us through.i 2 am working on
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 11, 2004

                                  joshua,

                                  ur right.technology in the wrong hands is always dangerous.only the ALMIGHTY should show us the right way and guide us through.i 2 am working on nanotech stuff and i sincerely pray HIM to show me the right path.

                                  jameel shaik


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