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Questions about Sutcliff's _Sword at Sunset_

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  • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
    Hi all, So I m plugging along wishing sometimes I had a [nonexistent so far as I know] pocket OED digital device for words like fetch and I can t even recall
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 5, 2003
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      Hi all,

      So I'm plugging along wishing sometimes I had a [nonexistent so far as I
      know] pocket OED digital device for words like "fetch" and I can't even
      recall what else... little probably Britishisms scattered throughout her
      often poetic diction. Artos sometimes calls Guenhumara "Angharad" which
      isn't in my Welsh dictionary. "Fetch" I will remember to look up in the
      big sale OED I have upstairs, but I can't cart it about with me.

      But today I have a question for you all. Artos (Arthur) often refers to
      the "aurochs" horn that his trumpeter uses to sound the various military
      calls. The aurochs was a member of the cattle family, I dont know quite
      what it looked like but it is often referred to in anthropological works in
      ways like this: ".... cave paintings such as these, showing the large and
      dangerous game such as the aurochs, which is now extinct." So was it still
      around in the first millenium CE or were there preserved horns turning up
      here and there and popular among Roman buglers ?


      Lizzie Triano
      lizziewriter@...
      amor vincit omnia
    • alexeik@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/5/3 11:54:10 AM, Lizzie Triano wrote:
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 5, 2003
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        In a message dated 8/5/3 11:54:10 AM, Lizzie Triano wrote:

        <<Artos sometimes calls Guenhumara "Angharad" which
        isn't in my Welsh dictionary. >>

        _Angharad_ is the name of Peredur's beloved in _Ystoria Peredur mab Evrawc_,
        and it can be used generically to mean "Beloved".

        <<But today I have a question for you all. Artos (Arthur) often refers to
        the "aurochs" horn that his trumpeter uses to sound the various military
        calls. The aurochs was a member of the cattle family, I dont know quite
        what it looked like but it is often referred to in anthropological works in
        ways like this: ".... cave paintings such as these, showing the large and
        dangerous game such as the aurochs, which is now extinct." So was it still
        around in the first millenium CE or were there preserved horns turning up
        here and there and popular among Roman buglers ?>>

        The aurochs is the wild ancestor of domestic cattle, and looks much like them
        except for being bigger and fiercer. The last specimen was killed in Poland
        in the 1600's, but in Roman times it was a common denizen of the Hercynian
        Forest, and was often featured in circus games. Aurochs horns were large and long
        (somewhat like those of Texas longhorn cattle), so they were frequently used
        as both trumpets and drinking-horns.
        Alexei
      • Elizabeth Apgar Triano
        _Angharad_ is the name of Peredur s beloved in _Ystoria Peredur mab Evrawc_, and it can be used generically to mean Beloved . Ahhh.... so if I haven t
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 5, 2003
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          _Angharad_ is the name of Peredur's beloved in _Ystoria Peredur mab
          Evrawc_,
          and it can be used generically to mean "Beloved". >>

          Ahhh.... so if I haven't read it in a Peredur translation, than likely
          elsewhere in a related tale. Does almost have a Tolkien look to me
          actually.

          << The aurochs is the wild ancestor of domestic cattle, and looks much like
          them
          except for being bigger and fiercer. The last specimen was killed in Poland
          in the 1600's, but in Roman times it was a common denizen of the Hercynian
          Forest, and was often featured in circus games. Aurochs horns were large
          and long
          (somewhat like those of Texas longhorn cattle), so they were frequently
          used
          as both trumpets and drinking-horns. >>

          I really had no clue it lived so recently. Where is the Hercynian Forest?

          Are there any preserved bits around that people may have spoken of cloning
          them, the way I saw an article they'd like to try for the Tasmanian Tiger ?

          Thank you, Alexei. xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

          Lizzie Triano
          lizziewriter@...
          amor vincit omnia
        • alexeik@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/5/3 11:15:06 PM, Lizzie Triano wrote: The Hercynian (from the Old Celtic _erquuns_ oak ) was the great
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 6, 2003
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            In a message dated 8/5/3 11:15:06 PM, Lizzie Triano wrote:

            <<Where is the Hercynian Forest?>>

            The Hercynian (from the Old Celtic _erquuns_ "oak") was the great primeval
            forest that still covered most of central and eastern Europe in Roman times, and
            which the Romans often used as an image to evoke the scary, savage aspect of
            life on the frontier. All that's left of it today is the Bialowieza forest
            around the Polish-Lithuanian border (and it's where the last of the wild European
            bison -- though not the aurochs -- still live).

            <<Are there any preserved bits around that people may have spoken of cloning
            them, the way I saw an article they'd like to try for the Tasmanian Tiger ?>>

            A German scientist early in the twentieth century (Haeckel, I believe it was)
            tried to re-create the aurochs by breeding domestic cattle for aurochs-like
            traits (since the aurochs is, in fact, the ancestor of domestic cattle, so all
            domestic cattle have aurochs genes). He came up with very aurochs-like
            animals; but unfortunately, none of them survived World War II.
            Alexei
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