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Re: [mythsoc] More Mythcon Pictures

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  • David S. Bratman
    ... There are actually several devotional books based on Tolkien that have come out in recent years. I don t find any of them particularly procrustean.
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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      At 07:17 AM 8/1/2003 , Stolzi wrote:

      >Mike's toss of a Devotional Book Based on Tolkien (yes, really!) led me to
      >invent "Prochristean" and "Prochristeanism," for writers who chop or stretch
      >other writers in Procrustean fashion to make them fit into a religious
      >framework.

      There are actually several devotional books based on Tolkien that have come
      out in recent years. I don't find any of them particularly procrustean.
      They're actually pretty reasonable and make sense in context, including the
      one Mike tossed. What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
      was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
      fortunately was never published.

      - David Bratman
    • Croft, Janet B
      I thought that was published? The 12 Rings of Leadership by Joe Tye, listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries. Janet Croft What really stretched Tolkien to
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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        I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
        listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.

        Janet Croft

        What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
        was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
        fortunately was never published.

        - David Bratman



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      • David S. Bratman
        Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP (cataloging-in-publication)
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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          Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might
          have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP
          (cataloging-in-publication) record [though apparently not in this case]).
          Or, a pre-order record that was never filled. (RLIN, the other main
          library system, sometimes lists those.) Or just an accidental ghost
          record. Or more than one of the above. The library databases are not
          entirely reliable as to whether a book exists, still less as to whether it
          was published - ghost CIP records of books that were never published,
          especially from the infamous late Borgo Press, are all over the place.

          - David Bratman


          At 09:24 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
          >I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
          >listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.
          >
          >Janet Croft
          >
          >What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
          >was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
          >fortunately was never published.
        • Croft, Janet B
          Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or may not mean it actually IS available. I don t particularly want to waste my money
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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            Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
            may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
            my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
            on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
            from).

            JBC

            -----Original Message-----
            From: David S. Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
            Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:54 AM
            To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [mythsoc] More Mythcon Pictures


            Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might
            have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP
            (cataloging-in-publication) record [though apparently not in this case]).
            Or, a pre-order record that was never filled. (RLIN, the other main
            library system, sometimes lists those.) Or just an accidental ghost
            record. Or more than one of the above. The library databases are not
            entirely reliable as to whether a book exists, still less as to whether it
            was published - ghost CIP records of books that were never published,
            especially from the infamous late Borgo Press, are all over the place.

            - David Bratman


            At 09:24 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
            >I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
            >listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.
            >
            >Janet Croft
            >
            >What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
            >was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
            >fortunately was never published.



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            <http://www.mythsoc.org>

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          • juliet@firinn.org
            ... I ve seen reviews blending Christopher Lee s Saruman and Count Dooku, and I think the Agent Smith/Elrond similarity is most obvious to those of us who ve
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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              On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:24:00AM -0700, David S. Bratman wrote:
              > >Hugo Weaving had his lines from THE MATRIX supplied to him during the Council
              > >of Elrond
              >
              > with "Mr. Baggins" instead of "Mr. Anderson," of course.
              >
              > Blending his Elrond with his Agent Smith is a joke that's been made fairly
              > often, and I'm faintly puzzled as to why. I didn't see "The Matrix" until
              > long after I saw "Fellowship," but now that I have, I don't see how they're
              > particularly similar in looks or style, as far as two characters played by
              > the same, fairly distinctive, actor go. I mean, I haven't seen any jokes
              > comparing Saruman to previous Christopher Lee characters, for instance.
              > Perhaps it's because these are the only roles people have seen Weaving in?
              >
              I've seen reviews blending Christopher Lee's Saruman and Count Dooku,
              and I think the Agent Smith/Elrond similarity is most obvious to those
              of us who've seen The Matrix several times and have auditorily-centered
              memories. If you close your eyes, a few of his turns of speech are exactly
              the same. And if you've heard Hugo Weaving speak in an interview, you'll
              know that when out of character he has a strong British/Australian accent,
              so it's not just that that's how he naturally says those words.

              The review in which Saruman and Count Dooku were frequently confused
              lampooned the fact that Saruman and Gandalf's scene in PJ-FOTR was turned
              into a Star Wars style invitation to come to the power of the Dark Side,
              and I think the reviewer threw in a bit of Harry Potter at some point too.
              Not having seen either Harry Potter movie yet (I know, shame on me! I
              have two kids under 3 and another on the way, so babysitting is at a premium.)
              I can't say for sure. If anyone's interested in actually reading the
              review, I'll hunt it down.

              Julie
              tur
            • David S. Bratman
              Amazon is, of course, completely unreliable as a reference source. I presume you know that, and perhaps also that Amazon prefers not to list books as
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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                Amazon is, of course, completely unreliable as a reference source. I
                presume you know that, and perhaps also that Amazon prefers not to list
                books as unavailable unless they know that for sure. Barnes and Noble,
                which is likewise unreliable as a reference source, says "Not Currently
                Available", which covers several possibilities, including just
                out-of-print, but the absence of a cover picture for such a new trade book
                should make one suspicious. Slightly more trustworthy results can be
                obtained by searching the web database of the attributed publishers
                (www.penguinputnam.com, www.prenhall.com) and finding the book not listed
                there.

                - David Bratman


                At 10:00 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
                >Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
                >may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
                >my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
                >on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
                >from).
              • Joan Marie Verba
                ... As Susan said, that doesn t mean I don t also enjoy satires of a movie. I do running commentary on movies I watch--at home--all the time, whether I enjoy
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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                  Stolzi@... wrote:

                  > But Joan, I thought you =liked= the movie!

                  As Susan said, that doesn't mean I don't also enjoy satires of a movie.
                  I do running commentary on movies I watch--at home--all the time,
                  whether I enjoy the movie or not.

                  Joan
                  ******************************************
                  Joan Marie Verba
                  verba001@...
                  http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
                • Stolzi@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:24:14 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I have son John s word upon that. Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of this message have
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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                    In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:24:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
                    dbratman@... writes:


                    > Was it Emily who started that? I couldn't remember.

                    I have son John's word upon that.

                    Diamond Proudbrook


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Berni Phillips
                    From: Croft, Janet B ... It d be nice if there were some consistency in this. I had pre-ordered a book from Amazon. I got a notice from
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 1, 2003
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                      From: "Croft, Janet B" <jbcroft@...>


                      > Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
                      > may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
                      > my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
                      > on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
                      > from).
                      >
                      > JBC

                      It'd be nice if there were some consistency in this. I had pre-ordered a
                      book from Amazon. I got a notice from them that it was not coming out after
                      all -- the same week that other people saw the book in stores. I bought the
                      book at Barnes & Noble.

                      (The book, BTW, was the best book of essays on Buffy that I've seen so far.
                      It's _Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosophy: Fear and Trembling in
                      Sunnydale_, part of a series on various aspects of pop culture and
                      philosophy. B&N shelved it in their philosophy section. The other Buffy
                      essay books are too political for my tastes.)

                      Berni
                    • WendellWag@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/1/2003 12:23:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of Saruman_, that would
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 2, 2003
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                        In a message dated 8/1/2003 12:23:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        dbratman@... writes:

                        > What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                        > was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                        > fortunately was never published.

                        Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of
                        Saruman_, that would make a plausible management book.

                        Wendell Wagner


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Berni Phillips
                        From: ... Lesson 1: Never give a minion an even break. Berni
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 2, 2003
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                          From: <WendellWag@...>

                          > Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of
                          > Saruman_, that would make a plausible management book.

                          "Lesson 1: Never give a minion an even break."

                          Berni
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