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More Mythcon Pictures

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  • Joan Marie Verba
    ... [Fun stuff snipped.] Thanks! Repeat: Ooooh! That sounds fun! Wish I d been there! Joan ****************************************** Joan Marie Verba
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
      "David S. Bratman" wrote:

      > >>and also a pic of the crowd on Saturday
      > >> night in the film lounge, intent on eviscerating Peter Jackson's LOTR
      > ("MST3K
      > >> meets FOTR")
      > >
      > >Ooooh! That sounds fun! Wish I'd been there!
      >
      > Let's see if I can recall any of this. (It was late at night, very very late.)

      [Fun stuff snipped.]

      Thanks!

      Repeat: Ooooh! That sounds fun! Wish I'd been there!

      Joan
      ******************************************
      Joan Marie Verba
      verba001@...
      http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
    • WendellWag@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/31/2003 8:58:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... When the balrog first appeared, I said, It s the dreaded ballhog. 7 2 it stands. As it
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 31, 2003
        In a message dated 7/31/2003 8:58:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        dbratman@... writes:

        > Strangely, I don't recall any "Bored of the Rings" lines being used.
        >
        >

        When the balrog first appeared, I said, "It's the dreaded ballhog. 7' 2" it
        stands. As it walks, it dribbles. Across its chest in cruel runes is written
        the evil word "Villanova".

        Wendell Wagner


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stolzi@aol.com
        In a message dated 7/31/2003 7:32:31 PM Central Daylight Time, ... It would have much amazed you - Hamlet But Joan, I thought you =liked= the movie! Those
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1 7:17 AM
          In a message dated 7/31/2003 7:32:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
          verba001@... writes:


          > >and also a pic of the crowd on Saturday
          > > night in the film lounge, intent on eviscerating Peter Jackson's LOTR
          > ("MST3K
          > > meets FOTR")
          >
          > Ooooh! That sounds fun! Wish I'd been there!
          >
          >

          "It would have much amazed you" - Hamlet

          But Joan, I thought you =liked= the movie! Those who passionately didn't -
          notably Bratman and a few others - were making scathing critical comments on
          script and film-making, PLUS the rest of us were doing our best to throw in
          lines and asides, MST3K style.

          I didn't think I said anything terribly funny myself, but was fond of my
          real-estate-ad when the ruined building on Weathertop showed up - "Needs work."
          Grace had her moment for "Sieg Heil!" when the figures of the Kings showed up,
          extending their hands; and when Frodo comes across the huge sculptured head
          she said (naturally) "It's Teddy Roosevelt!"

          Hugo Weaver had his lines from THE MATRIX supplied to him during the Council
          of Elrond (we had the original sound turned way down).

          We also started a drinking game - well, not really, as there's no booze
          allowed at the Sackville-Baggins center - but whenever Elijah Wood shows viewers
          that Haunted Stare again, we would chorus "Drink!!!" One could get through a
          lot of drinks that way.

          But it was perhaps Emily Rauscher who highlighted the evening. The second
          time we saw the Ring gleaming at us in somebody's palm, she commented puckishly
          "It's still round!" I mean, what else is there to say about it? After that,
          son John and others took it up and every time that dinged Ring reappeared -
          "It's still round!"



          Diamond Proudbrook



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stolzi@aol.com
          Another event of the Con was the beginning of The Mythopoeic Society Manual of Literary Criticism. This started, naturally, during the MFA Awards Discussion,
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1 7:17 AM
            Another event of the Con was the beginning of

            The Mythopoeic Society Manual of Literary Criticism. This started,
            naturally, during the MFA Awards Discussion, combined this year with the Annual Book
            Toss.

            Edith Crowe mentioned the "Numinosity Meter" by which she always grades the
            books she reads for the award.

            Later, in discussing one of the scholarly books (I think it was) she uttered
            the words "verges on turgid." We all loved this, some suggesting it might
            make a good name for a rock band. Then I suggested that we need a Turgidometer
            as well as a Numinosity Meter (does it measure things as having so many
            "numinos"?)

            Mike's toss of a Devotional Book Based on Tolkien (yes, really!) led me to
            invent "Prochristean" and "Prochristeanism," for writers who chop or stretch
            other writers in Procrustean fashion to make them fit into a religious framework.

            So obviously we have the foundation for our Manual and glossary in place!



            Diamond Proudbrook
          • Stolzi@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/31/2003 7:58:09 PM Central Daylight Time, ... But I hope you know, David, what is round at both ends and high in the middle. Diamond
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1 8:05 AM
              In a message dated 7/31/2003 7:58:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
              dbratman@... writes:


              > The Ring is round at one end, round again in the middle, and round
              > at the other end

              But I hope you know, David, what is round at both ends and high in the
              middle.

              Diamond Proudbrook



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David S. Bratman
              ... For the Nth time, I don t hate the movie. I enjoyed the movie; I gave it a B grade as a movie. What I hate is what it did to Tolkien s story. ... up,
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1 9:24 AM
                At 07:17 AM 8/1/2003 , Stolzi wrote:

                >But Joan, I thought you =liked= the movie! Those who passionately didn't -
                >notably Bratman and a few others

                For the Nth time, I don't hate the movie. I enjoyed the movie; I gave it a
                "B" grade as a movie. What I hate is what it did to Tolkien's story.


                >Grace had her moment for "Sieg Heil!" when the figures of the Kings showed
                up,
                >extending their hands;

                I think that at that point someone started to sing "Stop in the Name of
                Love," a joke previously essayed by Ellie Farrell.


                >Hugo Weaving had his lines from THE MATRIX supplied to him during the Council
                >of Elrond

                with "Mr. Baggins" instead of "Mr. Anderson," of course.

                Blending his Elrond with his Agent Smith is a joke that's been made fairly
                often, and I'm faintly puzzled as to why. I didn't see "The Matrix" until
                long after I saw "Fellowship," but now that I have, I don't see how they're
                particularly similar in looks or style, as far as two characters played by
                the same, fairly distinctive, actor go. I mean, I haven't seen any jokes
                comparing Saruman to previous Christopher Lee characters, for instance.
                Perhaps it's because these are the only roles people have seen Weaving in?


                >But it was perhaps Emily Rauscher who highlighted the evening. The second
                >time we saw the Ring gleaming at us in somebody's palm, she commented
                >puckishly
                >"It's still round!" I mean, what else is there to say about it? After
                that,
                >son John and others took it up and every time that dinged Ring reappeared -
                >"It's still round!"

                Was it Emily who started that? I couldn't remember. That became the theme
                comment of the evening, and even made it into the Drunken Hobbit song at
                closing ceremonies.

                - David Bratman
              • David S. Bratman
                ... There are actually several devotional books based on Tolkien that have come out in recent years. I don t find any of them particularly procrustean.
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 1 9:24 AM
                  At 07:17 AM 8/1/2003 , Stolzi wrote:

                  >Mike's toss of a Devotional Book Based on Tolkien (yes, really!) led me to
                  >invent "Prochristean" and "Prochristeanism," for writers who chop or stretch
                  >other writers in Procrustean fashion to make them fit into a religious
                  >framework.

                  There are actually several devotional books based on Tolkien that have come
                  out in recent years. I don't find any of them particularly procrustean.
                  They're actually pretty reasonable and make sense in context, including the
                  one Mike tossed. What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                  was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                  fortunately was never published.

                  - David Bratman
                • Croft, Janet B
                  I thought that was published? The 12 Rings of Leadership by Joe Tye, listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries. Janet Croft What really stretched Tolkien to
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 1 9:24 AM
                    I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
                    listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.

                    Janet Croft

                    What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                    was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                    fortunately was never published.

                    - David Bratman



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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David S. Bratman
                    Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP (cataloging-in-publication)
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 1 9:54 AM
                      Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might
                      have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP
                      (cataloging-in-publication) record [though apparently not in this case]).
                      Or, a pre-order record that was never filled. (RLIN, the other main
                      library system, sometimes lists those.) Or just an accidental ghost
                      record. Or more than one of the above. The library databases are not
                      entirely reliable as to whether a book exists, still less as to whether it
                      was published - ghost CIP records of books that were never published,
                      especially from the infamous late Borgo Press, are all over the place.

                      - David Bratman


                      At 09:24 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
                      >I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
                      >listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.
                      >
                      >Janet Croft
                      >
                      >What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                      >was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                      >fortunately was never published.
                    • Croft, Janet B
                      Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or may not mean it actually IS available. I don t particularly want to waste my money
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 1 10:00 AM
                        Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
                        may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
                        my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
                        on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
                        from).

                        JBC

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: David S. Bratman [mailto:dbratman@...]
                        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:54 AM
                        To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [mythsoc] More Mythcon Pictures


                        Bound galleys of the book do exist - I have one - so the libraries might
                        have received and cataloged those. Or, it could be a CIP
                        (cataloging-in-publication) record [though apparently not in this case]).
                        Or, a pre-order record that was never filled. (RLIN, the other main
                        library system, sometimes lists those.) Or just an accidental ghost
                        record. Or more than one of the above. The library databases are not
                        entirely reliable as to whether a book exists, still less as to whether it
                        was published - ghost CIP records of books that were never published,
                        especially from the infamous late Borgo Press, are all over the place.

                        - David Bratman


                        At 09:24 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
                        >I thought that was published? "The 12 Rings of Leadership" by Joe Tye,
                        >listed on WorldCat as owned by 3 libraries.
                        >
                        >Janet Croft
                        >
                        >What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                        >was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                        >fortunately was never published.



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                        374-105951838331032> click here

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                        l/S=:HM/A=1695348/rand=866230551>

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                        <http://www.mythsoc.org>

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                        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • juliet@firinn.org
                        ... I ve seen reviews blending Christopher Lee s Saruman and Count Dooku, and I think the Agent Smith/Elrond similarity is most obvious to those of us who ve
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 1 10:14 AM
                          On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 09:24:00AM -0700, David S. Bratman wrote:
                          > >Hugo Weaving had his lines from THE MATRIX supplied to him during the Council
                          > >of Elrond
                          >
                          > with "Mr. Baggins" instead of "Mr. Anderson," of course.
                          >
                          > Blending his Elrond with his Agent Smith is a joke that's been made fairly
                          > often, and I'm faintly puzzled as to why. I didn't see "The Matrix" until
                          > long after I saw "Fellowship," but now that I have, I don't see how they're
                          > particularly similar in looks or style, as far as two characters played by
                          > the same, fairly distinctive, actor go. I mean, I haven't seen any jokes
                          > comparing Saruman to previous Christopher Lee characters, for instance.
                          > Perhaps it's because these are the only roles people have seen Weaving in?
                          >
                          I've seen reviews blending Christopher Lee's Saruman and Count Dooku,
                          and I think the Agent Smith/Elrond similarity is most obvious to those
                          of us who've seen The Matrix several times and have auditorily-centered
                          memories. If you close your eyes, a few of his turns of speech are exactly
                          the same. And if you've heard Hugo Weaving speak in an interview, you'll
                          know that when out of character he has a strong British/Australian accent,
                          so it's not just that that's how he naturally says those words.

                          The review in which Saruman and Count Dooku were frequently confused
                          lampooned the fact that Saruman and Gandalf's scene in PJ-FOTR was turned
                          into a Star Wars style invitation to come to the power of the Dark Side,
                          and I think the reviewer threw in a bit of Harry Potter at some point too.
                          Not having seen either Harry Potter movie yet (I know, shame on me! I
                          have two kids under 3 and another on the way, so babysitting is at a premium.)
                          I can't say for sure. If anyone's interested in actually reading the
                          review, I'll hunt it down.

                          Julie
                          tur
                        • David S. Bratman
                          Amazon is, of course, completely unreliable as a reference source. I presume you know that, and perhaps also that Amazon prefers not to list books as
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 1 10:44 AM
                            Amazon is, of course, completely unreliable as a reference source. I
                            presume you know that, and perhaps also that Amazon prefers not to list
                            books as unavailable unless they know that for sure. Barnes and Noble,
                            which is likewise unreliable as a reference source, says "Not Currently
                            Available", which covers several possibilities, including just
                            out-of-print, but the absence of a cover picture for such a new trade book
                            should make one suspicious. Slightly more trustworthy results can be
                            obtained by searching the web database of the attributed publishers
                            (www.penguinputnam.com, www.prenhall.com) and finding the book not listed
                            there.

                            - David Bratman


                            At 10:00 AM 8/1/2003 , Janet wrote:
                            >Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
                            >may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
                            >my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
                            >on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
                            >from).
                          • Joan Marie Verba
                            ... As Susan said, that doesn t mean I don t also enjoy satires of a movie. I do running commentary on movies I watch--at home--all the time, whether I enjoy
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 1 1:14 PM
                              Stolzi@... wrote:

                              > But Joan, I thought you =liked= the movie!

                              As Susan said, that doesn't mean I don't also enjoy satires of a movie.
                              I do running commentary on movies I watch--at home--all the time,
                              whether I enjoy the movie or not.

                              Joan
                              ******************************************
                              Joan Marie Verba
                              verba001@...
                              http://www.sff.net/people/Joan.Marie.Verba
                            • Stolzi@aol.com
                              In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:24:14 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I have son John s word upon that. Diamond Proudbrook [Non-text portions of this message have
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 1 2:16 PM
                                In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:24:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
                                dbratman@... writes:


                                > Was it Emily who started that? I couldn't remember.

                                I have son John's word upon that.

                                Diamond Proudbrook


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Berni Phillips
                                From: Croft, Janet B ... It d be nice if there were some consistency in this. I had pre-ordered a book from Amazon. I got a notice from
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 1 5:25 PM
                                  From: "Croft, Janet B" <jbcroft@...>


                                  > Well, Amazon lists it as available for purchase in hardcover. That may or
                                  > may not mean it actually IS available. I don't particularly want to waste
                                  > my money finding out (although I would take a look at it if I could get it
                                  > on ILL, but only one of the libraries listed is someone we could borrow
                                  > from).
                                  >
                                  > JBC

                                  It'd be nice if there were some consistency in this. I had pre-ordered a
                                  book from Amazon. I got a notice from them that it was not coming out after
                                  all -- the same week that other people saw the book in stores. I bought the
                                  book at Barnes & Noble.

                                  (The book, BTW, was the best book of essays on Buffy that I've seen so far.
                                  It's _Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosophy: Fear and Trembling in
                                  Sunnydale_, part of a series on various aspects of pop culture and
                                  philosophy. B&N shelved it in their philosophy section. The other Buffy
                                  essay books are too political for my tastes.)

                                  Berni
                                • WendellWag@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 8/1/2003 12:23:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of Saruman_, that would
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 2 5:16 AM
                                    In a message dated 8/1/2003 12:23:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    dbratman@... writes:

                                    > What really stretched Tolkien to make him fit a framework
                                    > was the abortive attempt at a "Leadership secrets of LOTR" book, which
                                    > fortunately was never published.

                                    Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of
                                    Saruman_, that would make a plausible management book.

                                    Wendell Wagner


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Berni Phillips
                                    From: ... Lesson 1: Never give a minion an even break. Berni
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 2 8:03 PM
                                      From: <WendellWag@...>

                                      > Now, _The Leadership Secrets of Sauron_ or _The Leadership Secrets of
                                      > Saruman_, that would make a plausible management book.

                                      "Lesson 1: Never give a minion an even break."

                                      Berni
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